Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza and Craig Biggio have been elected to the Hall of Merit!
The timing for our first year electing 4 candidates could not have worked out better, since class of 2013 is the strongest in terms of electees that we’ve ever had. The top of the 1934 ballot included Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins, Pop Lloyd, Smokey Joe Williams and Cristobal Torriente, but only 2 were elected.
Bonds and Clemens were each unanimous at 1 and 2. I believe that’s the first ...
Read More...Login to Join (8 members)
{/exp:tag:subscribed}Page rendered in 3.2240 seconds, 189 querie(s) executed
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
Page 1 of 2 pages
1 2 >Or to put it numerically, his lg slash stats for 68 to 70:
234/302/346
247/323/373
252/325/385
His OPS went up 86 points from 68 to 69 but the league's went up nearly 50 so it wasn't that big of an improvement. His walks did go up a lot more than the league's but his ISO held steady while the league's went up. In 70, his ISO went down while the league ISO increased again.
So Williams certainly impacted the walk rate but, in OPS+ terms Howard was the same guy before and after and in Rbat terms he was much better in 69 but in 70 was the same guy as 68. A sizable chunk of Howard's "improvement" was league context.
"We didn't have much money, so on the walk home from work I would grab a cow from a farmers field, strangle it and carry it home for dinner", Frank said.
1) Bonds changed his approach and started taking a lot more pitches, and instead swung for the cove at pitches in his zone.
2) Bonds wore body armor, allowing him (and Biggio) to dig in.
3) The average baseball was tighter.
4) Probably played more games because of recovery qualities of PEDs.
1-3 were the most important.
Sosa exploded when he started taking pitches for the first time.
At the time, the more obvious Williams project was Mike Epstein.
When he connected Epstein hit the ball harder and longer than Hondo.
1968 13 HR, 48 BB, .234/.338/.366
1969 30 HR, 85 BB, .278/.414/.551
Team
1968 124 HR, 489 BB, .224/.287/.336
1969 138 HR, 583 BB, .238/.321/.358
Hmm, Team +94 BB, Howard +48, Epstein +37.
I don't think that's quite right for Bonds. He was already an extremely selective power hitter before 2001. Much of the walk increase he saw was due to intentional walks. I don't think Barry had much room to improve in selectivity. In his case the extra walks are a result, not cause of, his increase in power.
What I find interesting about Bonds is that he is alone among the steroid suspects who had power surges, in that he decreased his strikeout rate after the power surge. That tells me that whatever role PEDS played, there was a lot more going on. I think it would be fascinating if Barry ever decided to come clean (not on steroids, for legal reasons he can never do this) on his entire approach to hitting, detailing the improvements he made over the years and everything he learned. He might be able to write the new Science of Hitting. I hope he does this some day.
Though perhaps it's not something he can articulate or teach. Some players have mentioned how sitting next to Bonds on the bench he could call the pitch type before it was delivered with uncanny accuracy. As a result later in his career it was impossible to fool him. That's probably superior pattern recognition skills trained by thousands of plate appearances.
Me, too. Of course, I think he's a genius when it comes to hitting and I hope the A's or Giants hire him as a hitting instructor one day.
--really nice guy
--strong as h8ll
--those glasses always amused me
--always spoke with his hand on your shoulder
--liked a good joke
--loved taking bp with the team in fenway and would always talk about how much he would have loved it as his home ballpark
folks here likely remember rob deer. rob was a big, burly fella. shoulders a mile wide. so there was a game where deer got hit by a pitch and he's barking at the pitcher and the pitcher gestures like 'c'mon tough guy' and deer standing on first starts to go and howard grabs him by the collar and just picks him up one handed and then wraps him up with his toes not touching.
this was 1986ish or so so frank was what, 51?
it was both amazing and hilarious to see this clearly strong guy get manhandled by an older but clearly just as strong (maybe stronger) guy.
This pair of bios (Howard and McCovey) are interesting for men of certain age (my age) because they both peaked at roughly the same time and were the two most feared hitters in their respective leagues. In McCovey's case, the proof is his record-breaking intentional walk totals, which included walks at unusual times--first base not open, very early in the game, etc. In Howard's case, the most humorous examples were the two times that Al Dark moved Sam McDowell to another position so that he would not have to face Howard, and then moved him back to finish the game.
Also, they were both platooned in the early 1960s for several years. Howard was not the hitter that McCovey was, but he was pretty good.
I keep several baseballs, with various team logos, on my desk. Let's see, now...one, two, three...three. Barely. (I'm so ashamed.)
For the record, the balls are from the Adirondack Lumberjacks, New Jersey Cardinals, and Sussex Skyhawks...all defunct. Hm.
Howard was as famous as anyone of the time, or any time, for hitting massively long home runs. If there was a game played on TV in the American League park, inevitably one of the announcers would show the place where Howard hit a ball ... onto the roof at Tiger Stadium or Comiskey Park or KC's Municipal Stadium.
McCovey, on the other hand, was more famous for hitting laser beam line drives. Even his home runs were most typically line drives that did not come down. The literature of the period is filled with stories of first baseman who were afraid of McCovey at bats.
This division is not perfect. It was Howard who most famously hurt a base runner. Duke Snider, a baserunner on third base, was hit by a Howard foul ball in the head. He was carried off on a stretcher and missed the rest of the season. (It was in September 1958.)
I seem to recall that Whitey Ford ducked when Howard lined a double to center in the 1963 WS - a 460' screamer to the base of the wall behind the monuments at YS. Also saw Howard hit a 400' out to right-center in the old Polo Grounds (Memorial Day 1962) that never got nearly as high as our 1st-row upper deck seats above the Dodger bullpen in left-center. The Met's RF was playing so deep he merely took a step or two back and grabbed it. And I'd put Mantle 1st, too, for his 1963 shot off the facade that some said was still rising when it hit.
EDIT: Coke.
Surely there will come a time where he can come clean and not have any legal concerns. Am I right lawyers out there?
Even allowing for changed offensive context his record for short term success is better than anybody that I can think of.
On the other hand, I can't think of any of his projects who sustained their improved offensive level. Eddy Brinkman was back to being Brinkman (yeah new team) by 1971 and that's typical of everybody who worked with Williams.
I know some of the people Armstrong successfully sued are trying to get their money back. No idea how that'll work out. (Armstrong basically only went the legal route in Europe where slander and libel laws work very differently for celebs than in the US. Sued frequently and won a fair number of cases. And always passed the winnings on to charity. Making the point that it wasn't about the money.)
Why is it obvious? The league BB rate increased from .081 to .095 in 1969 (a 17% bump). Howard's rate increased from .081 to .145 (a 79% bump). Howard's career was a series of adjustments and counter-adjustments (both by him and the pitchers), but this was a big one. The best year he had ever had for walk rate, relative to the league, was in 1964 when he was often platooning (a big factor, obviously), but 1969 was, by a long shot, his best to date. And it went up quite a bit in 1970 as well.
But Bonds hasn't sued anybody, nor has he been sued (at least not where steroids had any kind of role). He didn't kill anyone, so there's got to be some statute of limitations on the criminal side. I just can't see how he's going to be forever hidebound to secrecy on the subject of juicing.
But nobody sustained it, and he wasn't a god of hitting instruction. Couldn't teach (for instance) Tim Cullen to hit. Likewise Paul Casanova.
And the last team he managed was stunningly bad offensively. Team OPS+ of 77. What's more, a couple of young players had big improvement after Williams left. By that point Williams had basically lost the ability to work with anybody. And a few players formed the "underminers club". They really wanted him gone.
I have a coffee table book with a picture of Ernie Lombardi holding 7 baseballs.
It would be interesting to figure how much of that increase was due to the increased walks drawn by the Senators alone. It's a bit tricky to figure because of the two additional teams, and I don't have time to do it right now, but I do note that the Senators isolated walk rate went from well below the league average in 1968 to well above it in 1969.
with the 1969 senators i think you had the league changes working to some players advantages, some guys open to the managers' message and a manager who had very clear ideas of what he wanted to do and players willing to listen
even if you have a plan that long term is not much of plan when everyone before you has had no plan at all you look like a goodd8mn genius
If you've ever been to RFK, you know that in certain sections of the completely circular stand where the seats go way, way, way up (and there's usually one guy sitting at the top of them, 60 rows at least from another human being). There are a couple seats painted white marking his bombs that are just impossibly far out there. Most home runs at RFK don't even hit the back wall.
I would love to see a video of that.
I shouldn't say never. When he's in his 80s and the public perception of him has changed from complete A-hole to revered elder statesman* he should be able to speak freely. I don't know what the statutes of limitation are for perjury, but for the next 14 years at least he's not going to admit to anything that will further hurt his HOF chances. And at this point any theory that you can confess and be forgiven has been proven to be false.
*Hey, this worked for Ted Williams, didn't it?
That is just unreal. As Ted said "I think without question the biggest, strongest guy who ever played this game". I wonder if this is still true. His competition would probably be:
Mark McGwire
Bo Jackson
Giancarlo Stanton (for whom we probably have not seen his peak strength).
Pretty much. During his playing days, I figured Bonds would enjoy a similar transformation as The Kid, though the whole juicing issue may delay that.
I was at RFK in 2005 and the three of us made a point to go find the white seats after the game. The ushers really did not want us going out there--they were trying to get us to go home and we had to essentially pretend we did not hear. I sat in one of the seats and looked toward home plate which I could barely see. Center field seemed to me to be 200 feet away.
Glad to hear it, because there was a time during his coaching career after he retired from playing that he definitely let himself go. He was fat, probably weighed at least 350 lbs, and with those beltless double-knit skintight stretch uniforms of the late '70s, it wasn't a pretty sight.
Several members of the press hated him, and vice versa. He could be a dick to them, he later acknowledged. In one of the many books that came out late in his life, he said to the author (paraphrasing from memory): "make sure you put this in your damn book: I was a lousy ****king husband and a lousy ****cking father."
One of the reasons there are so many books about him is that his contradictions are so interesting.
Ed Linn, with whom he feuded, wrote a book about Williams in the 1990s. Comparing him to DiMaggio, he wrote that DiMaggio was a complicated multi-dimensional player and a simple man, while Williams was the reverse.
The way I had always heard it was that Williams basically explained to Howard "Every pitcher in the league is terrified that you'll kill him. Use that to your advantage. Nobody wants to throw you fastballs down the middle, ok? So if they're throwing you stuff off the plate, don't swing at that sh**. Get some good counts and then make them throw you your pitch."
For some even better insights into what it was like to receive personal hitting tutelage from Williams, read "YAZ", Carl Yastrzemski's 1968 autobiography. In it he covers several things:
1)Ted always maintained that anyone could hit for more power without sacrificing any batting average. A big part of it is knowing how to create situations for yourself when you can swing from the heels (i.e., work those good counts, especially when there are runners on base).
2)Yaz said that Ted always emphasized that hitting for average is actually a basic batting skill but learning how to pull the ball for power is an advanced skill. Thus, work on being able to hit for good averages first (especially how to hit with two strikes on you) before you work on increasing power output. After Yaz won the 1963 A.L. batting title and finished second in 1965, apparently Ted thought Yaz was ready for some advanced training.
3)As far as hitting mechanics, Ted always told Yaz "hips ahead of hands" - open your hips up on your stride as that will pull the bat through the zone quicker/harder.
4)"Know your pitch". Yaz said that at first he thought that meant "know what pitch I like to hit" but then Ted explained to him "If the pitcher knows you're a dead low fastball hitter, he's not going to throw you low fastballs. It would be suicidal." "Know your pitch" means learn what the pitcher throws in certain situations. If you can get to the point where you can predict what pitch is coming, that is still to the batter's advantage even if you know it's not necessarily the pitch you want to see.
Tony Gwynn has also talked extensively about his conversations with Ted during the winter before the 1997 season. In 1997 Tony had his career highs in both HRs and 2Bs and he attributed both to Williams as follows:
1)Tony was always so polite he would refer to Ted as "Mr. Williams", and Ted would call Tony "son". Ted would say "Son, history is made on the pitch inside". According to Tony, Ted worked with him on getting good situations to look for fastballs on the inside part of the plate as those are the pitches the batter has a good chance to pull for power. Tony used that to hit 13 HRs the first half of the '97 season, way ahead of pace for Tony's normal power output. Then pitchers started going away from Tony more once they realized that he was attacking those inside fastballs.
2)So, according to Tony, Ted had told him this would happen, but - what was Tony's bread and butter his whole career? Going with outside pitches to hit singles through the 5.5 hole, right? Tony said that early in the season he was seeing more inside pitches because he had never been a pull hitter before and pitchers were staying away from Tony's traditional "happy zone". But when Tony started hitting some homers, then pitchers started consciously keeping the ball away from Tony, which fed into his natural style of hitting. Tony said the pull hitting increased both HRs and some doubles, but he also said a lot of doubles that season came on those pitches he could go the other way with.
When Tony turned on an inside pitch in Game 1 of the '98 WS against the Yankees for a HR in Yankee Stadium, he said that was classic Ted Williams training on that AB.
Of course, I'm not sure what Ted would have done with Mike Piazza. Most of Mike's career, all his homers were going to the opposite field so he wasn't pulling the ball at all.
Great recap of Williams's approach to hitting and his hitting philosophy.
#44:
That nicely puts it in a nutshell.
I'd also add that Mantle, too, wasn't simply the a-hole that many revisionists now would have him be. Former teammates of Mantle cried when they spoke of Mickey. That can't be if he was nothing but an ass hole.
Tracer!
Howard vs. Ford:
1963 (World Series) - 3 for 6 with a home run
1965 - 4 for 8 with a home run (and a walk)
1966 - 2 for 4 with a home run (and an IBB)
Ford never struck Howard out or got him to GIDP.
I have no idea whether Mantle was a jerk or not, but time and cognitive dissonance have a way of changing one's feeling about the past regardless of how they felt at the time. Besides, isn't what people mostly say about Mantle isn't so much that he was a jerk but that he was a famous guy with a massive drinking problem?
Page 1 of 2 pages
1 2 >You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.