Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
Page 2 of 2 pages
I should have been more clear - it's not Bagwell, but Bagwell's narrative that's ignored.
Are you really telling me that this guy really is "doing quite well" in voting?
There have indeed been other threads. Like this one, where you posted something very similar. The fact that you continue to tell the same story suggests that maybe you should go back and re-read the old threads before posting the same comment. For ease of reading, here's my response to you from the last thread:
Do you actually know anything about Edgar Martinez?
Apart from playing for Seattle - as opposed to Boston or New York or something - he's got great intangibles. Single-team player, saved baseball in the city, incredible hard-worker (he did several HOURS of eye work every day in addition to everything else), he's pretty much universally beloved. He's the one that stuck around after Johnson, Griffey, and A-Rod left - and the key player who unites the 1995 and 2001 stories. Which, no, didn't end an 86 year drought, of course. But Edgar was instrumental to the team's first winning season in its history, its first playoff appearance (in epic style), and tying the record for the most victories ever. Those are pretty cool.
If all you mean is that Ortiz is a lot more famous than Edgar, well sure. But the idea that Edgar has no narrative is crazy. If that narrative doesn't 'stick' in the same way, it's because people are ignoring it, not because it's not there to be seen.
Actually, I think Edgar Martinez is a very clear Hall of Famer. That you don't think he is says more about you than Edgar's obvious bonafides.
Yes, debuting at 40%+ is just about a guarantee of election. He then moved up the next year, and again in his third year to almost 60%. Yes, he suffered a dip last year, but we're looking at the most crowded ballot since 1936, and three first-ballot guys went in. In those conditions he lost only 29 votes. He absolutely is doing quite well.
An analysis of Edgar requires careful consideration of the value of career length and the appropriate amount of negative fielding credit to assign to a player for time spent as a DH.
Except even with that he's above the line I set for the hall. And I'm hardly alone on that, when we went through our own Hall of Fame referendum Martinez only got 13% of the vote on a ten man ballot, but when it was followed up with an "in or out" vote 84% of Primates who voted said he should be in. That's an overwhelming majority of people here who think he should be in the hall of fame. That I as someone who's a bit more of a large hall type would think he's clearly over the line doesn't indicate at all that I haven't thought about his case, and that you think he's such a borderline case puts you at best in the minority. If you think that he's on the outside looking in you're in a fringe minority.
The fact that Bonds and Clemens (and Schilling and Mussina etc.) are lagging him does not mean their presence isn't pulling away support from guys like him, or Piazza and Biggio.
I wonder how many ballots listed Bonds and/or Clemens but not Bagwell, but I'd guess it's a very small list.
You're also ignoring the fact that while Bagwell's vote count has stagnated Biggio and Piazza both picked up significant support - and there is no good reason to vote for Biggio but not Bagwell except for the narrative of 3000 hits.
Bagwell is going to make the Hall of Fame soon.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
Login to Join (1 members)
Page rendered in 0.5319 seconds, 57 querie(s) executed