Rhoden went on to add that despite the steroid accusations, the players in question are still “probably the cleanest guys going into the Hall of Fame,” and defended his stance. “Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Is Thoughtcrime really an appropriate disqualifier for the HOF?

Absolutely, if you're giving any real weight to the character clause.

Having bad thoughts isn't really a violation of he character clause is it? I mean, wouldn't that keep the baseball equivalent of Muhammad Ali out of the hall of fame?

Is there a confirmed rapist in the Hall? I wouldn't be surprised but can't think of who offhand.

He probably means Puckett.

I'm sure you can find statutory if you don't look real hard.

I'd disagree with his assertion that the first-time nominees are nice people aside from PEDs. There's Barry Bonds and his divorce proceedings, Roger Clemens and Mindy McReady (see above).

I always thought of Bill Rhoden, aside from racial issues, as an old white guy's opinions in old black guy's body.

The well-documented racism of somebody like Ty Cobb means absolutely nothing to me in terms of the Hall's character clause. Cobb was an ####### who worked in a segregated industry, but he was doing nothing on his own account to keep it segregated, and in terms of American society, sports were an industry that was continuously evolving toward integration even in Cobb's playing days. (Cobb did play integrated ball in Cuba in 1910, though reports of him in his later playing years have him avoiding integrated exhibition games.) Cap Anson has more on his plate, as he has become widely associated (in a somewhat factoidal way) with actively drawing the color line; he was more influential than Cobb, certainly, and could have done more good than Cobb was in a position to do. But Anson was hardly the only segregationist in 19th-century baseball. At that point, you either have to not celebrate those years at all in a Hall of Fame, or include Anson as no better or worse (when it comes down to it) than most of his Hall contemporaries.

At heart, baseball is a game, and games played a big role (because of their innate fairness) in integrating America. Being part of the game, even if you were a racist in thought, was a whole lot better than taking part in hundreds of other contemporary activities that cemented segregation deliberately and repetitively in place.

Obviously the idea that Clemens or Bonds are nice guys is ridiculous and irrelevant.

On the whole Rhoden sounds exactly in line with the broad views here, no? Blocking Bonds or Clemens is absurd but likely to happen. Rose is in a different category. It's odd to go crazy on steroid usage but have no interest in amphetamines. It's reasonable to treat people who used before the drug policy differently than people who used after. Rhoden isn't my favorite writer--he's dull as toast--but all of this seems reasonable to me.

Being part of the game, even if you were a racist in thought, was a whole lot better than taking part in hundreds of other contemporary activities that cemented segregation deliberately and repetitively in place.

Well, except maybe for Jake Powell, if he did what he said he did.

I'm sure you can find statutory if you don't look real hard.

Leading candidate for today's best out-of-context quote.

DB

Great example, zack: Powell's off-season avocations were exactly the kind of "other activities" I meant. And to the extent that he marginalized himself within the game (even Judge Landis disapproved!) it just shows how much less racist "ballplayer" was as a career than "cop" was, in many cities.

Leave PED users out of Hall of Fame.

Leave that up to the veterans committee in 2043. Committee members then will be former PED users.

Let's face it Bonds and Clemens on stats alone are no-brainers. Current Hall of Famers do no want them in. Any voter with an ounce of integrity, and sportmanship will not vote them in now.

Current Hall of Famers do no want them in.

Why is this relevant?

Why is this relevant?

It goes to the degree to which roiding runs counter to the principles and spirit of fair play and fair competition. Other accomplished players who've experienced a long career and success within MLB are very valid witnesses to that.

You mean the players who were taking amphetamines on a daily basis?

Look at Mark McGwire over 500 HRS and Rafeal Palmeiro HOF numbers 3000 hits and a good average. Their votes for them to get in were way down, ( do not have numbers in front of me ).

Sosa this year will be the same. Bonds and Clemens will be interesting to see, but based on what I'm hearing they will be left out also. 75% is an extremely high percentage to get in, reason why many candidates are on the ballot for years

Most of the voters (not voting PED users) in are basing it on integrity, sportsmanship, character, practically everything short of sainthood. I lean more toward the voters camp because giving our youth the impression to let these characters in at "cheat at all cost" to me is not the right impression.

Their records can be listed, but putting a bust up in the Hall should be a "Honor" and only the most prestiges and honorable should be there.

When a writer says that 'they' should be in the Hall we get a comment section saying that they are wrong.

When a writer says that 'they' should NOT be in the Hall we get a comment section saying that they are wrong.


I think I am sensing a pattern.

all writers are wrong? This year I am seeing a lot of new names in the same old arguments so at least its a change of pace from arguing with the same people for the last 9 years or so

Current Hall of Famers do not want them in.

Where is the evidence for this? I'm sure some don't want them in ... and I'm sure some don't think Rice (just to pick one) deserves to be there either. Most HoFers seem to express relative ambivalence about PED usages. Some, like Schmidt, even admit they probably would have used. Aaron has said he's OK with Bonds holding the record. As far as I know, Mays and McCovey are still proud of Bonds. Meanwhile, the majority of HoFers simply keep their traps shut about the topic.

Then you get the hypocrisy that most of the living HoFers were PED users.

For Bill Rhoden, that was a remarkably sane comment.
Get him going on the subject of any team from another city against a team from New York and watch the dumb crazy fly.

“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Are they mother rapers or father rapers?

I understand you asking Walt.

Baseball blogs, HOFer's at card shows, TV announcers, Writer's interviews of members of the Hall of Fame. I was listening to a broadcast two years ago, covering Induction ceremony at Cooperstown, where Peter Gammons talked to Hall of Famers who said they would not attend the ceremony of any inductee who is a known PED user. Cooperstown I beleive have previous members vote? I've attended baseball gatherings where past Major Leagues said the same thing.
I guess it's a matter of if you really beleive it or not.

“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Are they mother rapers or father rapers?

Is it "rape" or "rape-rape"?

I lean more toward the voters camp because giving our youth the impression to let these characters in at "cheat at all cost" to me is not the right impression.

I've never been a big fan of presenting pro athletes to kids as role models, myself.

“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Are they mother rapers or father rapers?

Is it "rape" or "rape-rape"?

Ahhhhhh, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found yoooouu.

Legitimate?

Current Hall of Famers do not want them in.

How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

No.

How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

my guess is that if this were the case, the stage would be fairly empty.

I love Mays and believe he is the greatest plaYER OF ALL TIME, BUT IF YOU LISTEN TO HIM, HE WOULD HAVE INGESTED TOXIC-LADEN PIXIE DUST IF IT MEANT GETTING AN EDGE. SORRY FOR CAPS.

How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

my guess is that if this were the case, the stage would be fairly empty.

And my guess is that the stage from the last 25-30 years and that of all future generations would be fairly empty without the roiders.

And my guess is that the stage from the last 25-30 years and that of all future generations would be fairly empty without the roiders.

Agreed. Maybe some Atlanta pitchers would be there.............and I would guess Mariano but who knows?