I'd sure like to see him win one more WS and make it official!

Still annoyed at Gord Ash for not hiring him to run the Blue Jays back in 1998 after the Orioles went belly up (Gillick & Johnson gone then over a decade of sub-500 play). Also cannot understand why teams didn't hire him back in the early 2000's after his last job pre-Washinton. Only once in a full season did his team not finish 1st or 2nd and that year they finished 3rd. Just amazing.

Yes. A hundred times yes! About time somebody pointed this out.

Teams in the year immediately preceding Johnson’s first full season on the job have an average winning percentage of .474. Those same teams in Johnson’s first full season on the job have an average winning percentage of .550.

Of all the impressive things about Johnson's record, this is the most impressive. He's Billy Martin without the subsequent collapse.

Davey lost a daughter and a stepson who both died in their early 30s. He also had five stomach surgeries to fix an undiagnosed ruptured appendix. Davey had managed the Dutch and U.S. national teams in various tournaments during the 2000s. His wife said that after the stepson died and Davey had heart surgery, he suddenly had more energy he didn't have in previous years.

As came up re: Lou Piniella's candidacy, there basically aren't any managers in the HOF with only one pennant (who aren't in overwhelmingly as players). There are only two in with just two: Al Lopez and Wilbert Robinson. It's harder to win a pennant nowadays … or is it? There are still two of them every year, just as there always were. Somebody wins them; both managers in this year's WS had just collected their third. Ron Washington's won two, Charlie Manuel … it's not like it's unheard of nowadays.

Johnson's case is largely based on being able to take over just about any team and win; in that respect he's very like Billy Martin, who has two pennants and is not in the HOF; their career W/L records are currently very similar, Johnson's a hair better. Both were also good at getting fired, though Johnson, to be fair, is just independent-minded. Martin was a nightmare.

Edit: Another Coke on Steve Treder's lengthy tab

Does Johnson's playing career do anything for his managerial bid? Unlike most of his contemporaries, Cox, Larussa, Leyland, Cholly, Pinella (less so) he was a real player, 13 seasons, 4-time AS, 25-35 WAR (depending who you ask). History remembers him mostly for the fluke homerun season, which wouldn't help.

I suppose if you're going to allow minor credit for playing careers like that then it would make Torre a slam dunk, if he isn't already.

I suppose if you're going to allow minor credit for playing careers like that then it would make Torre a slam dunk, if he isn't already.

I would, and in my mind Torre is a slam dunk. It only seems reasonable to consider the entire "body of work."

I would, and in my mind Torre is a slam dunk. It only seems reasonable to consider the entire "body of work."

Dusty Baker enthusiastically agrees.

Torre would have to be a HOF manager if he'd never played a day.

Davey Johnson was as almost good a ballplayer as Red Schoendienst, who is the pattern of the half-and-half HOFer. But Schoendienst was somewhat better with the glove, played quite a bit longer (at least in the US), and won two pennants to Johnson's one. Nevertheless, Johnson is most of the way to as good an overall record as Schoendienst, particularly given his success with several clubs.

Torre is HOF qualified as a player AND as a manager. And he's not in.

He also had five stomach surgeries to fix an undiagnosed ruptured appendix.

It took five surgeries to figure this out? Was the physician Dr. Nick Riviera?