Two things: was this accurately measured and large gains for an older person, who was likely very under conditioned, are not particularly unusual over a short period. Ask him in 6 months if he's gained another 20 lbs of muscle.

I'm not saying the 40-lb gain is common, just that's its possible without steroids. My dad is doing high-rep, mid-weight machine work four days a week, plus walking and stationary bike work. He's not trying to bulk up, not taking any kind of supplements or eating additional protein. He told me that he's gone from 205 to 215, and kept the same notch on his belt buckle. This is the first time he's ever "worked out", but he's been very active his whole life. He's 6' 1", with wide shoulders - the typical mesomorph build. And again, he's 63. Probably not a whole hell of a lot of testosterone or natural HGH in his system.

No, to think as you do is naive. The idea that AAS cause bodies to break down is baseless.

That is not what I said. I did not say that using steroids causes bodies to break down, I stated that when there is an unusual break down of the body (breaking down before age norms, significant reoccurring injuries, Etc.) then I assign blame to usage. That doesn't mean that everyone who takes steroids has their body break down. Each person responds differently to what they take. Two people can take on the same regimen and respond to it completely differently. However, when one of those persons has their body deteriorate in an abnormal way, you can be sure of the cause. Much like smoking seems to cause cancer in some while others can smoke 3 packs a day for 50 years and not be diagnosed with cancer, the human body react differently to everything we do it it. We have come to accept that if a person smokes and has cancer that the smoking caused the cancer, it is possible that in a small percentage of the time it didn't but we generally accept that it did.

Honestly, I think Jose Canseco is a pretty good advertisement for the efficacy and long-term safety of steroids, unless you think his unhinged mental state is something new. I haven't seen any before and after pics of his balls, so I can't comment on that aspect.

I haven't seen any before and after pics of his balls

Its only a matter of time if you follow him on Twitter.

Good irregular use of "me" by Bagwell. It's up there with some of the best.


"I love me some me." -- T.O.
"Me want cookies." -- Cookie Monster
"Me so horny." -- 2LiveCrew
“For me, it’s okay by me about me." -- J. Bagwell

So we can paint Ken Griffey, Jr. with the steroid brush too? We even have the comparable of his dad _not_ breaking down.

You do realize that you're mostly talking about 17 year olds who start around 150 and end up around 190, not start around 210 and end up around 250, right? These are kids who start out skinny, eat like mofos (usually intentionally overfeeding for the first time in their lives), and lift weights for the first time while their bodies are going through the final stages of puberty (hormonally equivalent to being on a light-dosage cycle). This is the perfect storm for muscle-building, and you can't expect a 20-something professional athlete to replicate it naturally.

Right. I gained about 40 lbs without growing in height between ages 17 and 20 by lifting weights and eating more. But I was starting out as a rail-thin 17-year-old, it wasn't all muscle, and I largely plateaued after that.

Humans ...

Guy makes completely unsubstantiated claim about players adding 40 pounds of muscle in an offseason and ...

instead of challenging this "fact" people go into a debate on whether you can add 40 pounds of muscle in an offseason?

KTPA is kicking all y'all's asses -- he's got the funniest post and the most sensible post in this thread.

So we can paint Ken Griffey, Jr. with the steroid brush too? We even have the comparable of his dad _not_ breaking down.

We even have the comparable of his dad _not_ breaking down. - Really?!?!?!

"instead of challenging this "fact" people go into a debate on whether you can add 40 pounds of muscle in an offseason?"

If you conclude that it is not possible to gain anywhere close to 40 pounds of muscle in an off season (as I have above), haven't you just challenged the claim about players gaining 40 pounds of muscle in the off season? Haven't you called into question the alleged "fact"?

Agreed. Have you seen all the mass Mac tacked on in season seven?

Standard, it's a scientific fact that newly divorced males gain substantial amounts of muscle mass that first year.

Unless they already own a Porsche.

If you conclude that it is not possible to gain anywhere close to 40 pounds of muscle in an off season (as I have above)

I took your post as support for the notion that you can't NATURALLY add 40 pounds of muscle thereby adding to the idea that a player who adds 40 pounds of muscle must have used steroids.

If you were trying to say that even with the use of steroids a player could not add 40 pounds of muscle, therefore #23 is ludicrous on its face, then I apologize.

My dad is doing high-rep, mid-weight machine work four days a week, plus walking and stationary bike work. He's not trying to bulk up, not taking any kind of supplements or eating additional protein. He told me that he's gone from 205 to 215, and kept the same notch on his belt buckle.

Then there's no way of knowing if he's truly gained 10 pounds of muscle as it was not accurately measured. I'd still like to find out if he's gained another 20 pounds in 6 months. Either way his story is no support for the idea anyone can gain 40 pounds of muscle in a year.

That is not what I said. I did not say that using steroids causes bodies to break down, I stated that when there is an unusual break down of the body (breaking down before age norms, significant reoccurring injuries, Etc.) then I assign blame to usage.

And the difference is?

Each person responds differently to what they take. Two people can take on the same regimen and respond to it completely differently. However, when one of those persons has their body deteriorate in an abnormal way, you can be sure of the cause.

How can you be sure?

Steroid freaks deserve our goddam respect and gratitude for what they gave us, their all regardless of the price they knew they'd have to pay.

So do the bearded lady, the sword swallower, the guy who takes the cannonball to the gut, and Evel Knievel.

Hey SBB, you do realize that KT was taking the piss in that post, right?