He is also the career leader in awesome name

Zoilo Versalles laughs at you.

Didn't some old-timers say Vince was actually the great fielder in the family?

And Zeppo and Gummo DiMaggio were supposed to be even better than Vince.

Zoilo Versalles laughs at you.

Where does Urban Shocker rate?

Didn't some old-timers say Vince was actually the great fielder in the family?

In the NBJHBA, James quotes Vince as saying he could play rings around Joe in center and Bill Deane as saying "How can he be the greatest center fielder of all time if he's the third best center fielder in his family?"

In Dom's writer-up, Curt Gowdy claims Dom was as good a runner, thrower, and fielder as Joe, and Al Hirschberg wrote "He was, in the opinion of many observers, the best center fielder in baseball, even better than Joe."

Bill has Dom ahead of Joe, and Joe ahead of Vince, but he summarizes it by saying that they all were quite exceptional and worthy of Gold Gloves in the majority of the seasons that they played.

Where does Urban Shocker rate?

Pretty high. That '27 Yankees pitching staff was loaded with great names: Waite Hoyt, Wilcy Moore, Dutch Ruether, and the aforementioned Urban Shocker.

Rusty Kuntz or GTFO.

When it comes to awesome names, Carlton Molesworth had an amazing peak but just didn't last long enough.

In the NBJHBA, James quotes Vince as saying he could play rings around Joe in center and Bill Deane as saying "How can he be the greatest center fielder of all time if he's the third best center fielder in his family?"

In Dom's writer-up, Curt Gowdy claims Dom was as good a runner, thrower, and fielder as Joe, and Al Hirschberg wrote "He was, in the opinion of many observers, the best center fielder in baseball, even better than Joe."

On top of all that, one of the first songs I ever learned was this little gem:

Who hits the ball and makes it go?
Dominic DiMaggio.
Who runs the bases fast, not slow?
Dominic DiMaggio.
Who's better than his brother Joe?
Dominic DiMaggio.
But when it comes to gettin' dough,
they give it all to brother Joe."

There might have been a little delusional Red Sox fandom involved in its creation.

Where does Urban Shocker rate?

Pretty damn high. He's the inspiration for my future Nu-Metal band, Suburban Shocker. I'm thinking we'll cover the Dimaggio song.

I'm always curious about the guys that didn't hit enough to start but might have won many GGs otherwise. As a Mets fan I've watched two such ridiculously good fielders - Endy Chavez and Tsuyoshi Shinjo. With smaller and less consistent samples it's tough to judge how they might have stacked up to the guys winning the award during their time - Cameron, Beltran etc. They also both played in the corners a lot because they were bench guys. I wonder how many similar players there are in baseball history, and then how many there are that couldn't even make the majors.

#56 Absolutely hilarious the way announcers pronounced his name. Kooooooooooooooooooooooonts. Just to be on the safe side.

Shinjo was pretty bad his last year in SF... Mays was very impressed his first year, but everyone stopped talking about him pretty quickly... not sure what happened.

I wonder how many similar players there are in baseball history, and then how many there are that couldn't even make the majors.

I think there's a really good chance the best defensive CF or SS in history never made the majors. Hitting a baseball is wicked hard.

Maybe the best fielding SS to play in the majors, Mark Belanger, was often this close to not being good enough to be a major league player because of his poor hitting. Certainly, he was often benched because he was hitting enough.

If you were an 18 year old shortstop and you were the best defender at that age that anyone on earth remembers seeing, but you were an absolutely average hitter (like, more than 20 million men on this planet are better than you at hitting - you hit .230 in high school) - would you get drafted? Would you ever get promoted if you were still hitting .080 in rookie ball?

If you were an 18 year old shortstop and you were the best defender at that age that anyone on earth remembers seeing, but you were an absolutely average hitter (like, more than 20 million men on this planet are better than you at hitting - you hit .230 in high school) - would you get drafted? Would you ever get promoted if you were still hitting .080 in rookie ball?

You might get drafted, b/c somebody thought they could "teach you to hit", but would likely wash out in rookie ball,

the guys that didn't hit enough to start but might have won many GGs otherwise

John Vukovich was in that category, at least by reputation; nobody ever saw him play enough at the major-league level to know exactly how good he was. He was by general agreement a better defensive third baseman than Mike Schmidt, and probably at least as good a shortstop as Larry Bowa, but since he was playing on the same team as Mike Schmidt and Larry Bowa, and also batting a career .161 with no plate discipline or power, it was really hard to tell. The Phillies kept him around for a couple of years on the principle that Schmidt never got hurt, and there was no sense in having a defensive caddy for Schmidt who was a worse third baseman than Schmidt. To be better defensively than Schmidt was a pretty tall order, though.

John Vukovich was in that category

Wow! He's in Bill Bergen territory on offense.

63: "wasn't" hitting enough, of course.

I think there's a really good chance the best defensive CF or SS in history never made the majors. Hitting a baseball is wicked hard.

I remember reading an article a few years ago from some writer who followed a minor club with a scout for a month (the writer did not normally wrote abut the minors)- he mentioned seeing some 3B for a series- best fielding 3B he'd ever seen was absolutely mesmerized.. couldn't believe he wasn't in the majors, or playing SS... the scout told him he really was a SS, but was playing 3B because a prospect needed the time at SS... the writer was like, "What you mean this guy isn't a prospect?" The scout told him to look him up- he did- 30 years old, slightly sub-Mendoza for the year- and his entire career, never higher than AA...

went back to the scout, the scout said there's good glove and no hit, and then there's really NO HIT...

If you were an 18 year old shortstop and you were the best defender at that age that anyone on earth remembers seeing, but you were an absolutely average hitter (like, more than 20 million men on this planet are better than you at hitting - you hit .230 in high school) - would you get drafted? Would you ever get promoted if you were still hitting .080 in rookie ball?

My guess is that someone with the athleticism to be the best SS, but absolutely no hitting skill/aptitude couldn't be THAT bad a hitter, they'd be- at worst- an average hitter for a pitcher, or may be this guy

re [64] [65] etc - Jose Iglesias is a good comp here.

Is there a sportswriter, anywhere, who isn't nakedly disingenuous at least some of the time?

Seriously, people like this troll just make #### up just so people will complain.

Jose Iglesias hit .295 in his first year as a pro. In the real world that makes him an outrageously talented hitter.

Maybe the best fielding SS to play in the majors, Mark Belanger, was often this close to not being good enough to be a major league player because of his poor hitting. Certainly, he was often benched because he was hitting enough.

Brendan Ryan is the current day Mark Belanger. I'm not sure that either was better than Adam Everett at his peak.

Embarrassingly, I seem to have punted my Curt Flood cover mention in comment #34. I tried to Google it myself, but got nothing other than a reference to a cover (August 19, 1968) of Sports Illustrated. Obviously, a cover photo of any ballplayer on SI is much less newsworthy than the cover of Time. Sorry about that. The SI cover image is everything I remembered it being, though. - Brock