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I find the release of the ballot to be a much more exciting time of year than the actual vote. It's a great time to stop and remember some of the good (and sometimes not so good) players that enriched my life through their baseball play, without necessarily being stars. Nostalgia is fun!
Rick White - OK, I don't remember anything about him
I'm surprised Munson is that high up on the list given his short career and middling home run and walk numbers.
Rick White was in the Pirates bullpen for a little while. He had a giant beard and wore number 00.
the '84 Tigers are so criminally under-represented.
Darrell Evans is a strange case; 55 WAR (and 414 pre-Sillyball HR) would seem to put him at least in the conversation, but his HOF Monitor is a sickly 42, and of course he was dismissed on the first ballot. Then again, Dwight Evans is at 62 WAR (my personal in/out number), and he never got more than 10% of the vote. What is it about Evanses, anyway?
Normally I would say yes WRT players like Morris, but I suspect he's different than most the other holdovers. I honestly don't think even the majority of his supporters really think he's genuinely HOF worthy. They're voting for him cuz they WANT him to be in there, plain and simple.
I am pretty sure J R wolf is a troll. not nearly the level of Mark Garber though.
What's interesting about this is that the Tigers always seemed to be a very well liked team by the press both during their heyday in the mid-80s and after retirement. I don't recall reading a lot of negative stuff about any of those guys back when.
I think you're in denial :)
Jim Rice was the most feared slugger in the league! (How could you possibly know this?)
Someone here (I don't remember who to give credit to, sorry) once posted that you know someone doesn't have a legit HOF case when their supporters have to rely on unique arguments that they'd never use for anyone else. The main points of one of the most prominent (only?) Morris suporters here is that he made lots of opening day starts and he was one of the highest paid pitchers in the game.
This was said rather frequently about him when he was playing (and, referred to the American League, rather than baseball as a whole). It doesn't make him any more qualified for the Hall of Fame than if they said he was the most dainty, but the idea that the voters in the mid-2000s conjured up this out of nowhere is patently false.
I didn't mean to imply that it was made up post-career or that it might not have even been true. I just meant that it's an irrelevant adjective that has nothing to do with his HOF worthiness, and that it's an argument you just don't see made with anyone else (at least I haven't).
Their evidence in support of these two positions is, again, very straightforward and traditional. Jack Morris had more pitching wins than anybody else in the 1980s and Jack Morris won one of the best pitchers' duels in World Series history. These are poor arguments that rely on weak and cherry-picked stats, but they're not particularly unique.
Eh. I don't remember much "most hits in the 90's!" support for Mark Grace and there's been plenty of other postseason heroes who never got a sniff at the hall. Like Morris, Joe Carter had some pretty good counting stats in a few categories due to his longevity and he produced an all time great postseason moment as well (yes, I know Morris was better than Carter).
It does seem like a fairly unique argument to me.
Except it far outstripped his contemporaries.
It crushes him between 1979 and 1992. 233 to 162.
I'm sure you've heard all the arguments against selective endpoints...
Depends on where you put the line as far as contemporaries go. And it doesn't far outstrip similar pitchers like Denny Martinez. It barely surpasses him.
He had the most wins in a decade for six straight 10-year periods.
His wins and CGs aren't the product of "selective endpoints," "cherry-picking," "data mining" or any such thing. They're real.
Jim Rice was the most feared slugger in the league! (How could you possibly know this?) Jack Morris pitched to the score! He was a winner and a gamer! Sorry, but valid HOF cases are built using stats, not adjectives. When the latter is all you have, I think you must know deep down that you're basing your vote on fanboyism rather than facts..
I think this ballot will make the voting a little easier for the steroid-haters among the BBWAA.
However: there is a whole world of baseball fans out there who arent stat geeks such as us. They too, deserve a voice. I dont think the baseball HoF should be like women's golf where they have a strict 35 pro win criterion (IIRC).
I was suprised to see Dale Murphy relatively low on the list of career WAR that was posted back on p. 1. He was a real force for a number of years although his last couple of seasons were disasterous as I recall. Maybe people remember that more. I would guess of the top of my head he's a better candidate than Morris, but that's without looking at the numbers in quite a while.
But it can't just be a popularity contest, either.
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