Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
Page 2 of 9 pages
What's the highest WAR of a player not elected?
Of those players who have been truly rejected, Lou Whitaker at 71.4 (Bonds is obviously on top, and Bagwell is also ahead, but the former hasn't been rejected once and Bagwell is likely to get in sometime in the next few years).
Well for those not on the ballot, it's Pete Rose, 76.7.
And I think of him as similar to Bagwell and Bonds in that he's not the answer to the question viva's asking.
Edit: I know I'm late to the Whitaker party, but wow, that's really off. Whitaker is only getting about 8 wins from defense and 5 from baserunning, so his value shouldn't be that hard to see. Positional adjustments was likely part of it, but his raw numbers also don't look that great. How much of his value on offense came from park adjustments?
He was a great-hitting second baseman, who had a long career, and who drew a ton of walks. And he basically played his whole career immediately prior to the sillyball era.
I think the last three points are probably a large part of it. He doesn't look like a great hitter, though, with a raw career line of .276/.363/.426. That's why I was asking about the park, which is probably part of it as well.
16.9% : Tim Raines 48.7% to 65.6%
Beltran's at 62.3 WAR. His last three season were 3.6, 4.5 and .6 (in less than a half season). He'll be 36, So I think 3 WAR next year, 2.5 than 1.5 seems like a good bet. 70 WAR for his career. What's the highest WAR of a player not elected?
So Lou Whitaker is the best player (by using WAR) not in the HOF among those who were eligible but no longer are? And he dropped off after 1 ballot? That's....something.
being one of the most feared players in the NL for years
He was an All-Star for five straight seasons from 83-87, and then basically played just as well for six or seven straight years after that - except that he stopped playing everyday. His WAR/per162 actually went UP after he stopped being an All-Star.
I'm impressed with the BBWAA in spite of myself. I really thought they might screw the pooch when it came to Raines.
Rice had a big drop in year 5, and a minor drop in each of 8/9 before his climb to the top. The big drop was the Ryan/Brett/Yount/Fisk ballot with Dale Murphy also (and for Jay fans, George Bell who got 6 votes). I was certain Raines would see the same this year as Rice in year 5 but it doesn't appear to be the case, in fact if early numbers hold he'll have a big jump this year instead.
Hold on, shouldn't this be the 2013 ballot collecting gizmo. I know it's still 2012 to us but it is the 2013 ballot.
67.6 - Bagwell n/a
no entries into the Hall at this time
Bob Hille, deputy editor: Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza, Sammy Sosa, Alan Trammell
Garry D. Howard, editor-in-chief: Don Mattingly, Jack Morris, Curt Schilling, Lee Smith
Stan McNeal, national baseball writer:Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Curt Schillng
TomH: Wow, I didn't notice that Piazza never won a HR title or any other title that counts for black ink. Twice led in OPS+ (1995/1997), twice was 2nd in MVP, 4th is the best for HR total surprisingly enough and the same for RBI's. 3rd for hits one year, and something I laughed at - 6th in defensive rWAR (1993).
Second the question on Bonds/Clemens. How they aren't identical - obviously in on career and then x% won't vote for them because of steriods - I'd like to know.
Well, if I were a person who cared about steroids and not in a "keep all the bums out" kind of way, I could almost fathom voting for Clemens and not Bonds based on the idea that Bonds has at least sort of admitted that he took something but didn't know what it was and was convicted on the one count of obstructing justice while Clemens wasn't convicted of anything and has denied everything.
I wonder if Raines is a big winner of the PED ballot due to a (bizarre) view that fast players didn't use (despite the proven benefits in track and field) thus writers are voting for him as a 'screw PED users' vote.
142. sharkbites Posted: January 01, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4335857)
Looking at the projections, it looks like there could be 5 players who end up in the 65-75% range. Anyone think it may be possible to have a class of 8 in 2014? Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, Biggio & Piazza (gain from writers withholding them from first year induction), Bagwell & Raines (ballot momentum), and Morris (15th year bump). That would probably be the greatest class since the very first one. I'm trying to put a more positive spin on no one getting 75% this year.
Bonds, Roger Clemens, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Lee Smith and Sammy Sosa.
I'm including Bagwell, who attracts suspicion but has never failed a test, never been on trial. My ballot, which must be mailed by Monday, also includes Biggio, Martinez (yes, despite the fact that he was primarily a designated hitter), McGriff, Morris, Murphy, Raines, Smith and Trammel.
Update: After much deliberation, I've decided to include Piazza. Not a big fan of his work behind the plate, but how many catchers were more prolific beside it? And the PED suspicions shouldn't keep him out any more than they should force Bagwell's exclusion.
right now the odds of anyone getting 75% is low
2B tend to get the shaft from the writers, as they don't get the defensive allowances they seem to make for SS/CF, and their offensive numbers can't compare with corner sluggers.
Anyone think it may be possible to have a class of 8 in 2014?
a chunk of those "extra" voters are going to fall into that "adjuster" category
You and me both, on both of those points.
The Morris voters are pissing me off. He's stealing valuable votes
Whitaker's big problem was that he didn't feel like an HoFer. I'll have to admit I don't recall thinking of him as an HoFer in real time and I'm still a bit stunned at how much WAR he has. He only once even received any MVP votes. 5 AS games is a decent total but not outlandish and he was voted the starter only 3 times (i.e. he wasn't hugely popular).
Morris' unpublished vote has beaten his published vote by well over 10 percentage points the last two years. Sadly, he's got an entirely realisic shot still if that tendency holds.
Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Jack Morris, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and Alan Trammell.
i thought the deal with rose was that he's ineligible, period. even if everybody wrote him in. so it wouldn't matter if the remaining voters out there put him on the ballot.
Just out of curiosity, how did Clemens get in there?
EDIT: First time I've ever responded to a post and then discovered that the post was deleted.
Fans of Bernie Williams have a slim hope - he 'just' needs 87.5% of the remaining votes (assuming last years total) to get in :)
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
Login to Join (1 members)
Page rendered in 1.1059 seconds, 58 querie(s) executed