Obviously, players are going to realize it depressing free agent value of not quite great players. If you have a chance to land a Pujols or Verlander level player losing a draft pick is an after thought.

If teams are acting rationally, it depresses the free agent value of great players as well as the not-quite-great ones.

Mark Reynolds has played 12 games in his career at DH. He hates it and begged off doing it in Baltimore. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an understanding with Cleveland that he would only play 1B.

To his credit he really improved as a fielder at first when he moved across the diamond and played well there for Baltimore down the stretch.He doesn't appear to be a guy who could play some 3B, DH and 1B casually and would be better left at one place.

Mark Reynolds has played 12 games in his career at DH. He hates it and begged off doing it in Baltimore. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an understanding with Cleveland that he would only play 1B.

To his credit he really improved as a fielder at first when he moved across the diamond and played well there for Baltimore down the stretch.He doesn't appear to be a guy who could play some 3B, DH and 1B casually and would be better left at one place.

Eh. He's on a 1/6 deal, I doubt Cle is going to coddle him. Much more important to keep Swisher, Bourn and Brantley happy.

Eh. He's on a 1/6 deal, I doubt Cle is going to coddle him. Much more important to keep Swisher, Bourn and Brantley happy.

Never underestimate the potential of young players to respect older players. We see Mark Reynolds as a sort of marginal and amusing figure, but maybe Kipnis and Chisenhall et al. see him as a role model and model professional whom the Indians front office would jerk around at their peril, lest they get a bad reputation for jerking players around.

Never underestimate the potential of young players to respect older players. We see Mark Reynolds as a sort of marginal and amusing figure, but maybe Kipnis and Chisenhall et al. see him as a role model and model professional whom the Indians front office would jerk around at their peril, lest they get a bad reputation for jerking players around.

Wouldn't that apply much more to Swisher, who is older, better, and much more highly paid? Why would DH-ing Hamilton be "jerking him around" while DH-ing Swisher wouldn't?

Oh, I don't know. The issue is whether they broke a promise to the player (any player). That gets them a bad reputation.

Stubbs (or Brantley) is rumored to be on the trade block.

Obviously, players are going to realize it depressing free agent value of not quite great players. If you have a chance to land a Pujols or Verlander level player losing a draft pick is an after thought.

Agents are going to have to self-correct too. It seems really silly for Kyle Lohse at his age and with his shaky track record, to turn down a 1 year $13 million deal to test free agent waters. Bourn is a more understandable case and he still got paid handsomely, albeit not as handsomely.

How Rafael Soriano got his deal is still beyond me.

Oh, I don't know. The issue is whether they broke a promise to the player (any player). That gets them a bad reputation.

Agreed. I just find it highly unlikely that they promised someone of Reynolds calibre that he'd be the every day 1B, come hell or high water.

Stubbs (or Brantley) is rumored to be on the trade block.

Would the Rays make sense as a landing point for either?

Would the Rays make sense as a landing point for either?

Stubbs would make a nice platoon partner for Joyce.

Brantley looks like he has a chance to be quite good. Career 98 OPS+ and avg. CF D, and he's on the upswing (113 OPS+ in '12). And he's only 25.

I think the Indians would want a lot for Brantley.

Seems to make more sense for Reynolds to DH and Swisher to move to 1B.

Could go either way. Reynolds is younger and had some good reviews defensively at 1B although Swisher had better stats.

-- MWE

Stubbs would make a nice platoon partner for Joyce.

That's what I was thinking. They lost Upton, and as far as I can recall the only outfielder they have added is Myers. And if Stubbs is the type of player with situational strengths and weaknesses, Maddon would be the right guy to deploy him.

Again, I think the Indians will be better off not having to rely on Giambi having something in the tank or on someone like McGuiness or Phelps stepping up, and trading Stubbs or Brantley at this point means that they'd have to rely on just that (unless they get a power corner bat in return).

-- MWE

Again, I think the Indians will be better off not having to rely on Giambi having something in the tank or on someone like McGuiness or Phelps stepping up, and trading Stubbs or Brantley at this point means that they'd have to rely on just that (unless they get a power corner bat in return).

Wouldn't getting a young SP be more important to Cle than worrying about DH?

They lost Upton, and as far as I can recall the only outfielder they have added is Myers.

Well, they added Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson, which means they also gained Ben Zobrist as an outfielder.

Wouldn't getting a young SP be more important to Cle than worrying about DH?

They were next-to-last in the AL in run scored and SLG a year ago, and although part of that is playing in a bad hitting ballpark, not all of it can be chalked up to that. The two guys who had the best SLG on the team are gone, and they've really only replaced one of them.

Yeah, I think they need to worry about DH more than getting another young arm.

-- MWE

They were next-to-last in the AL in run scored and SLG a year ago, and although part of that is playing in a bad hitting ballpark, not all of it can be chalked up to that. The two guys who had the best SLG on the team are gone, and they've really only replaced one of them.

Yeah, I think they need to worry about DH more than getting another young arm.

Well, they were 2nd to last in all of MLB in runs allowed (only Col allowed more) and dead last in ERA+. So, the pitching needs a lot of help too.

need to worry about DH

Jim Thome is waiting for a call

The two guys who had the best SLG on the team are gone, and they've really only replaced one of them.

Who, Hafner? All 263 plate appearances of his .440 SLG? That's hardly a meaningful loss. Mark Reynolds is a clear upgrade, just for his capacity to stay in the lineup. Jason Giambi shouldn't be counted on as a regular, but I bet he can give them 200 PA.

Again, I think the Indians will be better off not having to rely on Giambi having something in the tank or on someone like McGuiness or Phelps stepping up, and trading Stubbs or Brantley at this point means that they'd have to rely on just that (unless they get a power corner bat in return).

I do think that the Indians should absolutely keep Brantley. They ca't be trading quality players unless the other team is just making a dumb, generous move. I think that Drew Stubbs is an exceptionally limited baseball player, and if they can get value for him, they should make a move.

I do think that the Indians should absolutely keep Brantley. They ca't be trading quality players unless the other team is just making a dumb, generous move. I think that Drew Stubbs is an exceptionally limited baseball player, and if they can get value for him, they should make a move.

Concur 100%.

Stubbs has put up a 77 wRC+ in 1500 PAs vs. RHP. He's just not a useful full-time player. If someone wants to give you something good for him, you take it.

And if Stubbs is the type of player with situational strengths and weaknesses, Maddon would be the right guy to deploy him.

As MCoA and snapper have pointed out, Stubbs is a limited player. He can't hit RHP, and has trouble with the strike zone. He also can play a solid CF, run like a deer, and has good power.

He also needed out of Cincinnati badly. If he was ever going to do anything in the majors, it wasn't going to be for the Reds and/or Dusty. I wouldn't be surprised if a manager like Maddon, or hell maybe just a different voice, can figure out how to help him tap into his athleticism. Or I'm wrong and he's Jeff Francoeur 2.0.

Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS

#indians plan is for swisher to play 1B (& some OF), reynolds to DH (& some 1B/3B). not "looking to move" stubbs/brantley

Stubbs hit RHP fine in 2009-10. A change of scenery (and coaching staff) may help.

Stubbs hit RHP fine in 2009-10. A change of scenery (and coaching staff) may help.

But for his career he's awful, and getting worse. It's very possible that pitchers have just "figured out" a player with poor strike-zone judgement. His BB% is falling, and his K% rising.

Jim Thome is waiting for a call

There is no doubt in my mind that between Adam Dunn and Thome, Thome would put up a higher OPS+ this year. As a White Sox fan, this is depressing.

Thome may have the higher OPS+ but Dunn would certainly be available for more games. Thome's declining production is not in rate but in quantity.

But for his career he's awful, and getting worse. It's very possible that pitchers have just "figured out" a player with poor strike-zone judgement. His BB% is falling, and his K% rising.

Well, sure, that's entirely possible, and probably more likely than not. Still, Stubbs looked like a terrific young player just a couple of years ago, and he's still only 28. Unlike a reclamation project like Delmon Young, Stubbs is an excellent fielder and baserunner, so he provides value even if he doesn't hit. He's worth giving 300-400 ABs, including some against RHP, to see if he can figure it out.

Looking at his numbers, his GB% has been rising steadily each year, obviously not a good thing for a guy with power. It's possible that in trying to put the ball in play and use his speed, he's ended up completely screwing up his swing and/or approach. Perhaps Cleveland's (or someone else's) coaches can help him solve RHP.

Well, sure, that's entirely possible, and probably more likely than not. Still, Stubbs looked like a terrific young player just a couple of years ago, and he's still only 28. Unlike a reclamation project like Delmon Young, Stubbs is an excellent fielder and baserunner, so he provides value even if he doesn't hit. He's worth giving 300-400 ABs, including some against RHP, to see if he can figure it out.

Sure. All I was saying is 1) don't take PT away from Brantley or Swisher for Stubbs, and 2) if someone wants to offer you something shiny for Stubbs, take it. He's likely a platoon player.

I can't imagine Stubbs would take much playing time beyond the occasional day off from Brantley or Swisher. He'd bump Reynolds or Swisher to DH, which would relegate Giambi (or whoever emerges as the primary DH) to the bench.

Someone said that Cleveland took Giambi over Thome because Giambi was willing to sign a minor-league deal and Thome wasn't. I thought it was Gammo, but apparently not... anyway, it was someone.

Rosenthal, DA.

Couldn't figure out how to post to the original thread on the trade, but figured since this is probably today's big 'actual baseball news' thread, and somebody already brought up the Myers/Shields trade (and the Rays' depth chart) in the comments here, I'd stick it here:

Rays ship Elliot Johnson to KC as PTBNL to complete Myers trade: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/royals-acquire-elliot-johnson.html

Pretty good for a PTBNL. Almost the platonic ideal of a modern 25th man.

#42 snapper:

Right, UZR has him about 4 runs above average in rightfield. Rightfield typically has a -7.5 run defensive adjustment, putting him at about 3.5 runs below average. Since outfielders, taken as a whole, are about 4 runs below the average fielder, that puts him right about average in the outfield. (I think when I originally did my math, he came out as -0.5, while doing it again, I see it's +.5. Trivial, though, it does little to change the overall picture). DRS sees him as right about average for a rightfielder, which would put him about 3.5 runs below an average outfielder. If you prefer UZR, then you think he's about average for an outfielder -- provided his skills there are the same as they have been the last few years. If you prefer to use DRS, then he's below average, and likely falling as he gets older.

#42 snapper:

Right, UZR has him about 4 runs above average in rightfield. Rightfield typically has a -7.5 run defensive adjustment, putting him at about 3.5 runs below average. Since outfielders, taken as a whole, are about 4 runs below the average fielder, that puts him right about average in the outfield. (I think when I originally did my math, he came out as -0.5, while doing it again, I see it's +.5. Trivial, though, it does little to change the overall picture). DRS sees him as right about average for a rightfielder, which would put him about 3.5 runs below an average outfielder. If you prefer UZR, then you think he's about average for an outfielder -- provided his skills going forward are the same as they have been the last few years. If you prefer to use DRS, then he's a few runs below average, and likely falling as he gets older.

If your eyes tell you something different, then maybe you feel you've got a better read on it. From someone that has watched him play very little, I look mostly at the metrics and what the fans say. So I'll give you that he might be an average outfielder, and maybe better if what your eyes are telling you is correct. Hard to make that claim if you're using non-anecdotal evidence.