The shield was only for during construction. It couldn't go with it since it originated from the moon of Endor.

Never, ever build your superweapon near a planet with a race of cuddly little aliens suitable for merchandising.

The shield was only for during construction. It couldn't go with it since it originated from the moon of Endor.

I wasn't implying that somehow the Death Star would also bring a natural moon with it wherever it went only that the second Death Star should have been virtually impregnable when it was attacked and destroyed.

It's been a while since I've trilogied; was there ever any discussion of (1) how long it had taken to build Death Star 2.0 up to the point of its destruction, and (2) was it capable of hyper speeds? How long would it take to move from one planet to another?

How can we leave this out.

Death has always been a great career move for artists and musicians. Elvis and Michael Jackson are really raking in the bucks now.

Absolutely. For counterexamples, does anyone think Bob Dylan wouldn't have a significantly greater mythos if he'd died in that motorcycle crash? Or Jimi Hendrix wouldn't be in old-fogey territory now if he were still alive? Death freezes the perception of an artist at his peak and avoids the decline phase into irrelevancy.

The Death Star was capable of hyperspeed and it was destroyed about 4 years after the first one was destroyed and at around the same time the first one was being destroyed the Empire was building the second one. From what I remember the Death Star was had a much slower top hyperspeed than say an X-Wing or Star Destroyer.

I wouldn't say that Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson were at their peaks when they died.

(1) how long it had taken to build Death Star 2.0 up to the point of its destruction, and (2) was it capable of hyper speeds?

Clearly it took longer than the first one, which apparently took the better part of two decades. They might have started construction on the second one before the first was destroyed, however. You can never have too many Death Stars.

I'm sure the second one was capable of hyperspeed, or would have been by the time of its completion.

Absolutely. For counterexamples, does anyone think Bob Dylan wouldn't have a significantly greater mythos if he'd died in that motorcycle crash? Or Jimi Hendrix wouldn't be in old-fogey territory now if he were still alive? Death freezes the perception of an artist at his peak and avoids the decline phase into irrelevancy.

I'm pretty happy Bob Dylan can still put out records, mythos be damned. I like the late-period bluesy stuff.

Clearly it took longer than the first one, which apparently took the better part of two decades. They might have started construction on the second one before the first was destroyed, however. You can never have too many Death Stars.

The second Death Star is running behind schedule at the beginning of the film, but they are able to catch up in a matter of weeks or months. It's more likely that the project took years than that it took decades. I think there are 4-5 years between the conclusion of the first film and the second half of Jedi. The best thing to do is assume it takes a few years to build one and ignore the timeline established by the prequel.

I think it was pretty silly of the Emperor to set his trap for the Rebels while the second Death Star was still so vulnerable

The Emperor must have felt like Luke was enough of a threat that he had to take the gamble to lure him in to either turn him or destroy him. But did he really need to set that risky of a trap? Wasn't Luke headed for the Emperor anyway? I mean, the Emperor could have lay out a trap where he induces the rebellion to try to assassinate him on Naboo or something - why risk the destruction of the most powerful weapon in the universe and your right-hand man?

The Emperor seemed 100% certain that Luke would be coming to him anyway.

Regarding the exhaust vent - why did Rebellion decide that they should fly down a trench at high speeds, drop a torpedo that still has forward momentum down a vent that presumably goes 90 degrees straight down to the core? Shouldn't you fly straight at the vent kamikaze-style and launch as many torpedoes directly into the vent?

Regarding the dead musician mini-discussion - haven't there been more Tupac albums released since his death then before?

Classic rock radio is a plague upon mankind.


So true. The same 80 or so cuts over and over, year after year. Not even bothering with lesser known songs by the Stones or Hendrix.

Just drove to the grocery store. On the "Classic Vinyl" station on Sirius in the car they played "Sugar Magnolia" by the Dead. Then I went into the store and "Touch of Grey" was playing on the local classic rock station. That about sums it up.

The Death Star may be badly designed in details like reactor vents and so on, but that is nothing compared to the stupidity of the overall design. It is a strategic weapon designed to blow up entire planets into gravel, at an enormous cost in energy. In what way is that more terrifying for those on the other side of the barrel than a weapon that simply kills all life and sterilizes a planet? Which would be an at least ten orders of magnitude or so easier task.

Are you saying a Death Star is as clumsy as it is stupid?

Death freezes the perception of an artist at his peak and avoids the decline phase into irrelevancy.

And say what you will about their drug addled brains and self destructive tendencies, but they figured out that peak was age 27 a full decade before Bill James did.

Regarding the exhaust vent - why did Rebellion decide that they should fly down a trench at high speeds, drop a torpedo that still has forward momentum down a vent that presumably goes 90 degrees straight down to the core? Shouldn't you fly straight at the vent kamikaze-style and launch as many torpedoes directly into the vent?

This part always bugged me. At the least, just enter the trench closer to the shaft. You could still have a really cool battle.

And the whole point of classic rock stations (and essentially ALL commercial radio stations) is to play the same songs over and over again. That's their whole business. I haven't done a study but I am strongly convinced that for most people, familiarity is a huge part of the charm of a given piece of music. The opposite of novelty. Activates nostalgia pathways, etc.

Complaining about it is like complaining that "the food at every McDonalds all tastes the same".

If you want to listen to 'deep cuts' or what have you, get an mp3 player and plug it in to your car stereo!

I'm pretty happy Bob Dylan can still put out records, mythos be damned. I like the late-period bluesy stuff.

The greatness of Dylan and to a degree, Leonard Cohen, is that they continued to evolve and take risks into old age.

Anyone who has been given the moniker "Sir", on the other hand, just looks bloated and foolish.

Songs I never want to hear again

All Right Now-Free (why this one all the time? I don't even think it was a big hit then. And it sucks.) -CHECK
We Are the Champions- Queen. Instant stab for the volume button -- CHECK
Hold Your Head Up- Argent. See #1 -- It had very good FM airplay in Philly. I love the song but it is one of those that I can see someone hating though.
Anything- Eddie Money. Now he has a commercial. -- Two Tickets and Baby Hold On got plenty of play in the day. Not that they are "classic", just cromulent songs for their time.
Do You Think I'm Sexy- Rod Stewart. No. -- God, what an abortion of a song.

There are some songs that rotate on and off my "I've heard these way too many times" list. Popping into mind:
Satisfaction - Stones -- Is this song soooo good that I have to hear it for the 3,001st time? 19th Nervous Breakdown and Paint It Black? I'd listen to them any time.
Maggie May - Rod Stewart -- Much lesser song than Reason to Believe from the same era, which gets played 1/10 the number of times

Versions that get played rather than the superior version:
Live Maybe I'm Amazed - Sir Paul -- The studio version is the one post-Beatles Sir Paul song that I really like; the live version is too noisy
Do Ya - ELO -- the original by the predecessor band Move is more straight forward rock and roll and has just the right histrionics

Regarding the exhaust vent - why did Rebellion decide that they should fly down a trench at high speeds, drop a torpedo that still has forward momentum down a vent that presumably goes 90 degrees straight down to the core? Shouldn't you fly straight at the vent kamikaze-style and launch as many torpedoes directly into the vent?

The idea is presumably that the Death Star's defensive batteries can't fire into the trench, while the shaft is well-guarded by those same batteries against attacks from straight up.

Now I feel dirty for getting into rationalizations. It was probably just a cool effect they cooked up.

The idea is presumably that the Death Star's defensive batteries can't fire into the trench, while the shaft is well-guarded by those same batteries against attacks from straight up.

There were turbolaser batteries in the trench - when they stopped shooting the Rebellion pilots knew that the TIE fighters were coming.

Anyone who has been given the moniker "Sir", on the other hand, just looks bloated and foolish.

Now you've made Sir Mix-A-Lot cry.

Regarding the exhaust vent - why did Rebellion decide that they should fly down a trench at high speeds, drop a torpedo that still has forward momentum down a vent that presumably goes 90 degrees straight down to the core? Shouldn't you fly straight at the vent kamikaze-style and launch as many torpedoes directly into the vent?

regarding the use of the "force" to hit the vent- did they ever hear of GUIDED WEAPONS, heat seeking technology? radar guided? smart bombs???? It seems inconceivable that they didn't have munitions that could be programmed to home in on the damn vent, hell the idiot aliens from Battleship the Movie* could easily take it out with one of their pegs.

*saw it on a flight, mesmerizingly awful movie, but the aliens' weapon system was actually kind of cool- you could envision a real world weapons system working like that in a few decades.

Now I feel dirty for getting into rationalizations. It was probably just a cool effect they cooked up.

I've heard it was inspired by the scene in The Bridges at Toko-Ri when the attacking jets fly down a river cannon to take out some bridges while being fired on by AA guns.

Did we mention that the Empire responded to the President's response to the Death Star petition?

Nothing can crush my Star Wars Love*, so your over thinking the Death Stars certainly won't. The original scene in the trench is super cool and anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy wrong.

Oh and Classic Rock is OK, especially in small doses. I listen to my own (ever expanding) collection of music (which does include a fair amount of classic rock I admit) via MP3, but the occasional dip in the CR pool is fine.

Battleship was a crap-tastic movie. Not quite crap-tacular, but still enjoyable in a bad way.

* Seen the original move well over a 100 times (mostly back in the day, but every year or so I rewatch), and if the prequals did not kill my love, nothing will, ever.

* Seen the original move well over a 100 times (mostly back in the day, but every year or so I rewatch), and if the prequals did not kill my love, nothing will, ever.

even worse than the prequels is one seen in the re-edited original Star Wars, where Lucas wanted to change the scene so that Greedo shoots first...

regarding the use of the "force" to hit the vent- did they ever hear of GUIDED WEAPONS, heat seeking technology? radar guided? smart bombs???? It seems inconceivable that they didn't have munitions that could be programmed to home in on the damn vent, hell the idiot aliens from Battleship the Movie* could easily take it out with one of their pegs.

Did you see the kind of computers they were using? Not high-tech stuff. Plus all of this happened a long, long time ago, presumably before that technology had been developed.

White House grossly overstates the costs of a Death Star

'The Administration does not support blowing up planets.'

Well, that is exactly what we have come to expect from the Obama Administration. In fact, as a reason for blocking the development of a Death Star it should be challenged without delay in the Supreme Court as a likely violation of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

As David Keene would surely inform the President in no uncertain terms, Death Stars do not blow up planets, people blow up planets.

Songs I never want to hear again

All Right Now-Free (why this one all the time? I don't even think it was a big hit then. And it sucks.)
We Are the Champions- Queen. Instant stab for the volume button
Hold Your Head Up- Argent. See #1
Anything- Eddie Money. Now he has a commercial.
Do You Think I'm Sexy- Rod Stewart. No.

These aren't classics.

Bach and Beethoven are Classics. And Mozart really rocked.

Did you see the kind of computers they were using? Not high-tech stuff. Plus all of this happened a long, long time ago, presumably before that technology had been developed.

One of the things I like about the series, in retrospect, is the mix of technology and primitive culture. You have Coruscant, a tech-heavy city-planet; and you have Tattooine, where you have huts, and beasts of burden, and just enough technology to make a desert planet borderline livable. In many ways it's not unlike life on this planet, with the contrast between a Somali village and, say, Tokyo.

Obvious there was a limit on what they could have done in the late 70s/early 80s regarding graphics but you would think with the development of droids such as R2-D2 or C3PO they would have been able to develop some sort of guided missile (which did exist in reality already, so it didn't exactly have to come from some futurist).

but you would think with the development of droids such as R2-D2 or C3PO

and also both R2 and C3PO evidenced a level of AI programming beyond what has yet been managed

and also both R2 and C3PO evidenced a level of AI programming beyond what has yet been managed

I think some of the posters on this site exhibit AI programming comparable to that of the droids.

with the development of droids such as R2-D2 or C3PO they would have been able to develop some sort of guided missile

They probably had guided missiles before, but the development of AI technology, like that in the droids, made smart munitions too intelligent to fool into committing suicide on command.

Good luck. My petition to have Jeff Francoeur released and to make George RR Martin write faster was taken down by the government after about 150 signatures. While the two things seem unrelated, sometimes you need a little bit of pork to move consensus.

Winter is coming...

At the least, just enter the trench closer to the shaft.

Hmm.

Winter is coming...

In 2013, even!

Allegedly ...

Regarding the exhaust vent - why did Rebellion decide that they should fly down a trench at high speeds, drop a torpedo that still has forward momentum down a vent that presumably goes 90 degrees straight down to the core? Shouldn't you fly straight at the vent kamikaze-style and launch as many torpedoes directly into the vent?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046889/trivia

The Dam Busters (1955)

Did You Know? ...

This is one of the films that George Lucas used clips from to edit the rough cut of Star Wars (which utilizes many features of the finale of this film quite closely, notably the briefing, the ground staff waiting for news, the troika formation of the attacking aircraft and so on). In Addition, the following exchange from this film is reproduced almost verbatim (with the exception of the characters' names) in "Star Wars": Gibson: "How many guns d'you think there are, Trevor?" Trevor: "I'd say there's about 10 guns - some in the field and some in the tower". 

This is a fantastic thread. Ozzel Guillen is the winner.

The greatness of Dylan and to a degree, Leonard Cohen, is that they continued to evolve and take risks into old age.

Not to mention he was still in the middle of some of his most interesting stuff. A dylan who dies in the motorcycle crash produces no Blood on the Tracks or Basement Tapes, not even mentioning John Wesley Harding, Nashville Skyline, Desire, Love and Theft, etc

Tribute and interesting comments on how he works his material. He will not repeat himself, either vocally or musically.

A sampling of the ocmments:

“Bob really, really hates to repeat himself. A lot of times he’d do a version of a song and he’d say, “Aw, I’ve done that already. We gotta figure out some other way.” That’s what it’s all about with him.”


“Have I ever played any song twice exactly the same?”
“No, Bob, no.”
“See? I don’t do that.”

And Dan’s like, ‘Yeah, but that song “Can’t Wait”…’ Bob’s like, ‘I did it that way, and I’m never doing it that way again.’

“For him, a recording is a document of the song at that moment in time. My favourite Bob Dylan song is probably ‘It’s Alright Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)’. He has this wicked way of playing it live now, and I saw him backstage once after a show, and I said, ‘Hey, I love the new version of “It’s Alright Ma” – but do you ever play it like the original recording?’ And he looked at me, and he said: ‘Well, y’know, a record is just a recording of what you were doing that day. You don’t wanna live the same day over and over again, now. Do ya?’

When we finished ‘Highlands’, one of the managers came out, and he said, ‘Well, Bob, have you got a short version of that song?’ Dylan said: ‘That was the short version.’”

“Bob really, really hates to repeat himself. A lot of times he’d do a version of a song and he’d say, “Aw, I’ve done that already. We gotta figure out some other way.” That’s what it’s all about with him.”

Given the changes to Star Wars with each re-release, I guess George Lucas is the same way.