BBTF.org/m/media : Will Leitch: Why I Like Joe Buck

Wednesday, May 15, 2013

BPro: Listen to What the Heyman Said

(www.baseballprospectus.com)

posted 3 days ago by Repoz to media, sabermetrics | 182 comment(s)

With the Yang-Mills existence problem seemingly solved…we now move on to the Heyman existence problem. Or something.

And sometimes there isn’t much you can do. I wrote what I did about Hawk Harrelson and The Will To Win because at some point, you have to come to the conclusion that someone isn’t worth talking to anymore. Hawk’s problem wasn’t that he was wrong, it was that he was stuck in a frame of mind that starts from conclusions and will, when it cares to, circle back around to ...

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1. Harveys Wallbangers

posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:12 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

this is the same author who was taken aback that a good many fans are not enthralled with the cardinals

methinks the lad doesn't get out much.........

2. JJ1986 posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:17 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't like Buck because he'd rather talk about other stuff than what is currently happening on the field.

3. Brian C posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:23 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Annoying fans is one of the primary job descriptions of a broadcaster. More fans see and hear Joe Buck than any other broadcaster in the country. Therefore, he annoys more of them. He’s doing his job.

Huh?

4. madvillain posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:25 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Leitch is trolling BTF, among other places.

5. boteman posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

...a master class in live sports coverage; he knew exactly when to talk, exactly when not to...

So in the middle of an article about Joe Buck, he describes Jon Miller. WTF???

6. Infinite Joost (Voxter)

posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Shouldn't this be, "Why We Like Joe Buck"?

7. The Id of SugarBear Blanks

posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:35 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

He doesn't have the "it" factor commensurate with the magnitude of the games he's assigned to call. Voice, gravitas, you name it -- it just isn't "Big Game."

8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:37 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Will Leitch: Why I Like Nickelback

9. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:45 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Why I Like Joe Buck

THAT is a disgusting act!

10. eddieot posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:46 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Buck has managed to spend hundreds of hours in a booth next to Tim McCarver and never slugged him. So he's got that going for him.

11. Moe Greene posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I am a Reds fan. In response, I am penning the following articles:

- I know you'll never love the Reds as much as I do
- Why I like Thom Brennaman
- Why Pete Rose is a paragon of virtue (and you're not)
- Marge Schott was good in the beginning but she just went too far

12. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't particularly like Buck though I wonder how much of that is Buck and how much of that is Fox forcing him to do certain things (e.g. talk about the NFL or TV shows). There are two things in the article I thought were interesting. The idea that Buck likes baseball better than football is very much at odds with what I hear from him. Maybe he does but I don't get the sense he enjoys baseball much. The other is that I agree with Leitch that Buck as the anti-Gus Johnson is a point in his favor. I'd much rather an announcer I don't notice to one I notice frequently.

13. The Chronicles of Reddick posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

...a master class in live sports coverage; he knew exactly when to talk, exactly when not to...

So in the middle of an article about Joe Buck, he describes Jon Miller. WTF???

Yes Jon Miller in between his bits and stories that go nowhere sometimes gets to action on the field. And as a bonus he might even throw in the score.

14. pthomas posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

SEO troll bait article.

15. Good cripple hitter posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Leitch is trolling BTF, among other places.

I thought the level of Joe Buck hate had died down somewhat from a couple years ago. If Leitch really want to troll BTF, a better headline would've been "Why I Like Rick Sutcliffe".

16. bunyon posted on October 18, 2012 at 01:52 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I have a feeling that Will Leitch and I should never, ever go to the same shows.

17. Crosseyed and Painless posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:06 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't know if I "like" Buck. But there are far, far worse out there. I definitely agree that being the anti-Gus Johnson is sometimes a point in Buck's favor, especially in baseball. There are many moments in big baseball games where he just shuts up, which I think is absolutely the correct thing to do.

18. Dave Spiwak posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:21 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

After many years of disliking him, I'm starting to come around to Joe Buck.

First off, hating the guy has become a meme. It's a reflex to say you don't like the guy. And there's nothing much worse about him than your average announcer. Listen to him with fresh ears. He's actually pretty good at being self-depreciating and occasionally makes fun of the tacky schilling that he does on-air. At least this robot is self-aware.

I mean, hey -- he's pretty good for a boring play-by-play guy, as far as boring play-by-play guys go. It's a low bar to leap. Yeah sure -- we'd all like Vin Scully or Ernie Harwell, but those guys are once in a lifetime.

McCarver's the real problem. Just kind of saccharine and seems to have more and more "senior moments" (i.e. mixed up which dugout was which so he thought Pagan was taunting the Cards dugout on his HR).

And like others have said, there's a LOT worse out there.

19. ASmitty posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:30 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

He's actually pretty good at being self-depreciating and occasionally makes fun of the tacky schilling that he does on-air. At least this robot is self-aware.

That's actually something I don't like about him, or other TV personalities that do the same thing. I think it's wildly unprofessional. You're accepting money to read those shills, so read them. Taking the money and then trying to salvage your own personal coolness by mocking them is obnoxious.

My main beef with Buck, however, is that he's not any good and doesn't really seem to care. He has a job because his dad was famous, so he just shows up and mails it in. The end.

His "memorable" butchery of the David Tyree catch in the Super Bowl was just exhibit one out of 1 million of him sleepwalking through the biggest moments and events in American sports.

20. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:34 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

My main beef with Buck, however, is that he's not any good and doesn't really seem to care. He has a job because his dad was famous, so he just shows up and mails it in. The end.

Can't improve on this; the correct argument, in two succinct sentences. Well, three.

21. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:38 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Has he actually been a little more engaging this year, or is it my imagination?

Also, FTF excerpt: people actually complain that Buck likes baseball more than football?

22. Dave Spiwak posted on October 18, 2012 at 02:50 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

My main beef with Buck, however, is that he's not any good and doesn't really seem to care. He has a job because his dad was famous, so he just shows up and mails it in.

I can only take the man at his word, but he seemed pretty fired up about the Giants-Cards game this Sunday while he was working the 9ers broadcast earlier that day. Surely some here will say that's just classic Joe Buck -- talking about baseball during a football game, just as he talks about football during baseball games. But whether he cares or not is a judgement call. And the only people that seem to care if he cares are people like us who argue about it from our mothers' basements.

23. Kurt posted on October 18, 2012 at 03:00 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Nobody would care if he liked baseball more than football if baseball were a 9.5 and football a 9 on a 1-10 scale. The problem is that both appear to hover between 2 and 2.5 based on his enthusiasm while calling the games.

24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on October 18, 2012 at 03:08 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

McCarver's the real problem.

Well yes, if I had my pick I would get rid of Tim McCarver fifty times before I axed Joe Buck. Pair Buck with someone decent like Ron Darling or David Cone or John Smoltz and he'd be pretty acceptable.

25. ASmitty posted on October 18, 2012 at 03:12 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I mentioned this in another thread, but does Smoltz ever do games in a two-man booth? I like what he adds, but can't stand three-man announce teams. I'd like to hear how he does in a convential pairing.

26. gef the talking mongoose posted on October 18, 2012 at 03:33 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Buck has managed to spend hundreds of hours in a booth next to Tim McCarver and never slugged him. So he's got that going for him.

You say that like it's a good thing.

27. PreservedFish posted on October 18, 2012 at 04:12 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think most of the hate for Buck stems from overfamiliarity. He's totally average in my opinion.

28. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) posted on October 18, 2012 at 04:28 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

The idea that Buck likes baseball better than football is very much at odds with what I hear from him. Maybe he does but I don't get the sense he enjoys baseball much

I've always thought this, and it would seem to make sense, given that his Dad was a baseball annoucer first. I will grant it is hard to judge, given that Buck seems to have so little emotional register for anything, but I've always thought he enjoyed baseball more.

29. RMc don't hate anyone Asian posted on October 18, 2012 at 08:36 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

My main beef with Buck, however, is that he's not any good and doesn't really seem to care. He has a job because his dad was famous, so he just shows up and mails it in. The end.

A big ol' bucket of THIS.

The "jub jub" thing really put me over the edge. It's the f@cking WORLD SERIES, and you're so g@ddamned bored with it all, you have to do stuff like this? Screw you, and yer old man.

30. Guapo posted on October 18, 2012 at 08:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Joe Buck: Feel the Excitement

31. Gonfalon Bubble posted on October 18, 2012 at 09:08 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Technically, Joe Buck doesn't suffer from anhedonia; he's a carrier.

Last year's preposterous Game Six, ending with David Freese's walkoff, crystallized some of my other negative thoughts about Buck's broadcasts. Unsurprisingly, I still agree with myself and my two posts in this thread.

32. VoodooR posted on October 18, 2012 at 09:13 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Buck may not be that bad, and I concede that some of my annoyance with him over the years has more to do with his partner and his employer.

But I thought his play by play during Game 6 last year was lousy. There's being understated and then there's being boring and he was decidedly in the latter camp, IMO. His call of the David Freese triple (one of the most exciting moments in American sports history) was lame. Both Dan Shulman's ESPN Radio call, and Gary Thorne's on ESPN International were far, far superior. I don't expect bananas Gus Johnson (who I really liked during March Madness), but when I rewatch that play, Buck did not capture the drama and power of that moment. AT ALL.

Also, I didn't care for the "we'll see you tomorrow night" call on the Freese HR very much either. It was made out to be something he'd "waited his whole life to make." But I can't be the only one to remember that HE ALREADY DID IT back in 2004 on Ortiz's walk-off in the ALCS Game 4, except it was "WE'LL SEE YOU LATER TONIGHT". That was a clever twist and a nice homage to his pop. Doing it again was overkill.

EDIT: Apparently I wasn't the only one to remember the ALCS G4 call, as Gonfalon's link clearly shows.

33. cardsfanboy

posted on October 18, 2012 at 09:58 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think it's funny that the writer found five things on the internet that people complain about Buck and didn't hit what is probably the single number one complaint, and that is "He just doesn't seem to like the sports he is covering".

As a tv personality you need to share the energy level of your audience. You can assume a neutral audience if you want, but even then, they enjoy the game.

One of my favorite comments about Pete Rose is after game six of 1975 world series, in which his team lost, he was asked why he was smiling and he said he got to play in the best game ever, (he added we'll win tomorrow). That is the emotion you want from your sports announcers in the big games, They need to enjoy it. Angel Pagan has had a good game today in the playoffs, whether you are a Cardinal or Giants fan, you have to appreciate it, the fact that Joe doesn't seem to care much more than the immediate moment is his flaw.

34. zonk posted on October 18, 2012 at 10:50 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I thought the level of Joe Buck hate had died down somewhat from a couple years ago. If Leitch really want to troll BTF, a better headline would've been "Why I Like Rick Sutcliffe".

Well, I'm not sure how often Wiki Gonzalez gets updated anymore...

Future Leitch column:

Why I Don't Give a Damn about Frank Tanana

35. Shock posted on October 18, 2012 at 11:02 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I know I'm in the minority, but I quite like Joe Buck's understated style. Which is different from saying I like Joe Buck, of course, but I don't feel like I need announcers SCREAMING AT ME ABOUT HOW EXCITING SOMETHING IS !! EXCITEMENT !! for me to feel excitement. There's something I like about when a batter hits it to the shortstop and all Buck says is "inning over." Basically, he talks less than most idiots which I consider a plus.

He still sucks, don't get me wrong; I am speaking only to his style. I like the call linked to in [30].

36. SoSH U at work posted on October 18, 2012 at 11:41 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I know I'm in the minority, but I quite like Joe Buck's understated style. Which is different from saying I like Joe Buck, of course, but I don't feel like I need announcers SCREAMING AT ME ABOUT HOW EXCITING SOMETHING IS !! EXCITEMENT !! for me to feel excitement. There's something I like about when a batter hits it to the shortstop and all Buck says is "inning over." Basically, he talks less than most idiots which I consider a plus.

I'm with you here Shock. I'll take understated over exclamation points any day. I have no desire to listen to Gus Johnson's overreactions in any sport, particularly baseball.

37. Dr. Vaux posted on October 18, 2012 at 11:54 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I actually like Joe Buck, too, which may have something to do with the fact that I listened to him doing Cardinals games back in the mid-90s, but also has to do with his understated, unobtrusive delivery. There are a lot of announcers I like better, but there are certainly announcers I like less.

38. VoodooR posted on October 18, 2012 at 11:59 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I said it before, but I'll say it again: understated doesn't have to be boring. Joe Buck is boring.

39. karkface killah posted on October 19, 2012 at 12:03 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I dislike Buck because he is smug towards and detached from the event he is calling.

40. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling posted on October 19, 2012 at 12:10 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

But I thought his play by play during Game 6 last year was lousy. ... when I rewatch that play, Buck did not capture the drama and power of that moment. AT ALL.

Also, I didn't care for the "we'll see you tomorrow night" call on the Freese HR very much either. It was made out to be something he'd "waited his whole life to make." But I can't be the only one to remember that HE ALREADY DID IT back in 2004...

His "they just won't go away" comment in game 6, which sounded like he spat before and after, was awesome (in retrospect). I remember that disappointed, frustrated, "c'mon, I have an awesomely generic series-ending call all ready to go for the rangers" more than anything else from that series (though to be fair, by the end of the night I was pretty much toast).

I would have been fine with the "we'll see you tomorrow night" if he had made it his own- reprised it somehow, "these comeback kids, who came back all summer long, and three times tonight- they just wouldn't go away- and now they're walking off- looks like we'll see you tomorrow night, folks! or something, but the way he did it was just so bland and generic that it made the original call worse. In retrospect, the original call now sounds bland and generic.

And who will ever forget his 2006 WS call- "for the first time since 1982, the cardinals are world series champs". I mean, that's brilliant.

I remember these specifically because I'm a cards fan, but if the yankees and phillies and red sox and Giants in the interim were any better, I certainly can't remember anything about them.

41. Dr. Vaux posted on October 19, 2012 at 12:20 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Honestly, I think that for a lot of us, the problem isn't the announcing, it's that we don't find the post-season as riveting and exciting as we used to. There's more of it, teams on average make it more often, and we have a better understanding of how random the results are. That's a clear recipe for boredom and dissatisfaction.

42. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) posted on October 19, 2012 at 12:36 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Honestly, I think that for a lot of us, the problem isn't the announcing, it's that we don't find the post-season as riveting and exciting as we used to. There's more of it, teams on average make it more often, and we have a better understanding of how random the results are. That's a clear ~~recipe for boredom and dissatisfaction.~~ sign of getting older

FF

"get off my lawn" is the next step in the 12 step program

(or is it 8--I'm too old to remember)

43. Dr. Vaux posted on October 19, 2012 at 01:08 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I would think that was the explanation if not for the other explanations. Sabermetrics was around when I was 12 (1992), though, so I suppose I could have been into it then. I knew on base percentage was important and that pitcher wins were meaningless, at least.

44. VoodooR posted on October 19, 2012 at 01:27 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Honestly, I think that for a lot of us, the problem isn't the announcing, it's that we don't find the post-season as riveting and exciting as we used to. There's more of it, teams on average make it more often, and we have a better understanding of how random the results are. That's a clear recipe for boredom and dissatisfaction.

I've noticed this attitude around here a lot and it makes me sad. I find it as riveting and exciting as ever. And my understanding of the "randomness" of it all doesn't diminish that one iota. Despite whatever warts the game might possess, I'm as engaged and satisfied with the final product as ever, and frankly cannot fathom a time in the future where this will not be the case.

45. Gonfalon Bubble posted on October 19, 2012 at 01:43 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Re: understated delivery
Bob Costas doesn't yell. Vin Scully doesn't yell. Ernie Harwell didn't yell. Jim Kaat doesn't yell. Ken Singleton doesn't yell. Jon Miller doesn't yell. Apparently Red Barber didn't yell (I'm not old enough to vouch for it). Bill White didn't yell. Denny Matthews doesn't yell. Certain announcers in other sports, from Jim McKay to Adrian Healey to Jim Nantz, don't (or didn't) yell. Commending Joe Buck for keeping the Fox Sports chair away from a yowling blusterer is a false premise.

46. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling posted on October 19, 2012 at 01:51 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Vin Scully doesn't yell.

I know what you mean, but when there's something to yell about, at least he shows emotion.

47. Shock posted on October 19, 2012 at 02:02 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

It's a false premise that nobody made.

48. danup posted on October 19, 2012 at 03:24 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

SEO troll bait article.

You'll have to decide for yourself whether it's troll bait—I like Joe Buck and I think he gets a bum rap because he's not obviously terrible like most broadcasters—but considering the permalink has no words in it and the title isn't "World Series 2012: Joe Buck Is Actually Really Good," it's actually pretty badly SEO'd.

49. Gonfalon Bubble posted on October 19, 2012 at 03:31 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Re: #47--
"Premise" may be too declarative or definite. But a comparative appreciation of Buck's value as a subdued speaker, in contrast to the shouters, was made by more than one person: "I like him because he's not like that."

50. RMc don't hate anyone Asian posted on October 19, 2012 at 05:01 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

5. He’s on television all the time. This is the main reason. Fact is, Buck has been calling every NFC Championship Game, a third of the Super Bowls and every World Series for almost 16 years now. (His first World Series was in 1996; his first Super Bowl was in 2005.)

This nails it, I think. Buck has been calling WS games for what seems like forever already, and thanks to a new deal between FOX and MLB, apparently will until the end of time (or at least through 2021). Did anyone ever ask the fans who they'd like to see announcing the Series? The ESPN guys, maybe? The TBS people? Vin Scully? No, it's Jack Buck's smug kid and the much-despised Tim McCarver. (And you'll like it, pigs!)

Considering this WS will be between two flyover cities with 88-win teams, this could well be the lowest-rated Series ever.

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Wednesday, May 15, 2013

BPro: Listen to What the Heyman Said

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