LOL Ozzie, two games into the season and he's already trolling the team's fans.

You can't make this kind of thing up. Seriously, how could he top that? Inviting Randy Newman to sing "Short People" to spice his year-end review meeting with David Samson?

I anxiously await Ozzie Guillen using Passover as the appropriate occasion for him to explain why he respects the Jews.

What's the big deal about what Guillen said? It's not as if he said Castro was "wickedly great" or anything like that.

"I respect the Pharoah 100%. That dude just won't let those slaves go for nothing. Frogs? Plagues? He knows when to hold em."

Have we in fact gotten photographic evidence in the last few months/year that Castro is indeed still alive?

Have we in fact gotten photographic evidence in the last few months/year that Castro is indeed still alive?

He met the pope just some weeks ago. I don't think they would let the pope have a chat with Fidel's embalmed corpse, but maybe Raul is a real prankster.

What's the big deal about what Guillen said?

Nothing. People are dumb.

He met the pope just some weeks ago.

Somehow I totally missed that. Did the Pope tell him how ###### he was? Might have been an interesting conversation to have captured, on Popetube.

Not that (any of us) have access to that, but someone might have eventually leaked it.

Nothing. People are dumb.

Fidel is a long time tyrant, a murderer and prison warden for millions of people. There are no rights that anybody here hold dear that he hasn't trampled. Professing love for him is sick and twisted.

Fidel is a long time tyrant, a murderer and prison warden for millions of people. There are no rights that anybody here hold dear that he hasn't trampled. Professing love for him is sick and twisted.

He also stole a trillion dollar bill.

Fidel is a long time tyrant, a murderer and prison warden for millions of people. There are no rights that anybody here hold dear that he hasn't trampled. Professing love for him is sick and twisted.

Nobody professed love for him.

Nobody professed love for him.

This. Ozzie basically said "you gotta respect a guy who the US has tried to kill hundreds of times and who's still kicking. That's one mean hombre." There's nothing to that sentiment that's loving the guy's shitastic rule.

Fidel Castro is a living cartoon character. How else could he wear the same clothes every day and survive smoking exploding cigars?

That's close enough to love in my book. Gushing over dictators is absolutely repulsive to me, even when it comes from politicians that have to be nice in order to not start WW3.

... Yes, that's the definition of "gushing."

Way to have a ludicrously black and white mindset, champ. Wait, is that showing love to you?

I would imagine expat Cubans in Florida are a little pissed because some guy who didn't have to live under his rule is - even obliquely - mouthing off about respecting him.

And probably other folks, also with no first-hand (or second-) experience, saying "YO WHY YOU MAD BRO" is also a little annoying.

My cat's contribution:

77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777m5,

I don't like Fidel Castro, and I don't really like what Ozzie said. His survival has been, on the whole, not a good thing for Cuban people.

On the other hand, this is what Ozzie Guillen is. Ozzie Guillen not saying questionably offensive things would not be Ozzie Guillen. And all things considered, I'm happy to have Ozzie Guillen in baseball, randomly sounding off about topics he should obviously avoid.

Your cat has the smartest thoughts on the matter, Lassus.

I don't like Castro, I think he's done as poorly for the benighted people of Cuba as Batista and for longer, and I understand how someone who had to flee from their home to escape his regime and/or are separated from family could be frustrated/irritated by Ozzie's words. But I think it's a big step to go from what Ozzie said to imputing support, much less affection.

I mean, I can say with a sense of amazement that Turkmenbashi created one hell of a cult of personality without implicitly supporting his horrific regime.

I don't like Fidel Castro, and I don't really like what Ozzie said. His survival has been, on the whole, not a good thing for Cuban people.

On the other hand, this is what Ozzie Guillen is. Ozzie Guillen not saying questionably offensive things would not be Ozzie Guillen. And all things considered, I'm happy to have Ozzie Guillen in baseball, randomly sounding off about topics he should obviously avoid.

Amen to all that. Anyone who's reading some sort of left-wing implication in Ozzie's initial comment is just looking to be offended. His longstanding and often-expressed animosity towards Hugo Chavez, which earned him a "patriot" label from Bill O'Reilly, should be enough to abuse anyone of such an insane notion, even without Guillen's followup explanation.

Fidel is a long time tyrant, a murderer and prison warden for millions of people.

Yes and no. I know MANY Cubans who left the island legally. One got married to a Canadian. She kept her Cuban citizenship and goes back every year. Another one got to Canada on a program for immigrants. She goes back to Cuba on a regular basis. Another one left Cuba on a tourist visa to come visit Canada. He was able to obtain a visa to leave the island because I had formally invited him in Canada. He went back after. And so on.

Leaving the island legally is in no way easy. But it's possible if you know people abroad and have a little money. Obviously, it's still hard enough that many people risk their lives crossing on rafts...

I also travel to Cuba quite frequently and I have lived in a small Cuban town for months back 10 years ago. What I gather from these experience is that:

1) Cuba IS a dictatorship;

2) People are somewhat repressed but still talk quite a lot, I find;

3) People cannot do whatever they want but still manage to do most of what they want;

4) Food is the main concern for everybody because it's tough to get. People don't starve, but some go hungry now and then;

5) They love their baseball;

6) I'm glad to be Canadian and to be able to leave the island whenever I want when I'm there;

7) If I had to choose between living in Cuba or Haiti, I'd still chose Cuba in a heartbeat.

That is it.

But I think it's a big step to go from what Ozzie said to imputing support, much less affection.

It's interesting, I consider "affection" a few notches down below "support". I think this does show a level of affection from Ozzie, perhaps literally and - more importantly to those annoyed - offhandedly. I think your understanding about how people could be frustrated/irritated with Ozzie's statements is what applies rather easily.

Ozzie Guillen apologizes

Attention, people of this universe and/or dimensional plane:

I have recently found striking evidence which leaves me in serious doubt that I am in my universe and/or dimensional plane. I strongly suspect that some as of yet unknown phenomenon has caused me to shift from my universe and/or dimensional plane into this one - i.e. into yours. I know that this likely sounds unbelievable to you, but I have been unable to come up with a better explanation of the evidence.

Please take me to the scientists of your universe and/or dimensional plane so that this matter can be investigated.

Thank you.

He was good in the beginning, but he went too far

wait--did someone already say that?

Castro is an evil guy. This is the same as the moron hipster, leftists wearing Che T-shirts.

These guys are butchers, they killed and imprisoned thousands and thousands of people.

Castro is an evil guy. This is the same as the moron hipster, leftists wearing Che T-shirts.

I guess I missed the part of the article where Ozzie gave the quote while wearing a Fidel-style uniform. Maybe he gave it from the quad while doing a J, though.

These guys are butchers, they killed and imprisoned thousands and thousands of people.

So ... they're contenders for the Republican nomination in 2016?

(just to piss off Larry Mahnken)

These guys are butchers, they killed and imprisoned thousands and thousands of people.

Oh come on, Hanley isn't that bad at third base.

This. Ozzie basically said "you gotta respect a guy who the US has tried to kill hundreds of times and who's still kicking. That's one mean hombre." There's nothing to that sentiment that's loving the guy's shitastic rule.

Did ANYBODY actually read the ####### article in TIME ####### MAGAZINE? I love how on this site--all the ####### time--people will profess to know something about which they know nothing. To wit:

"I love Fidel Castro," Blurts Ozzie Guillen, the new manager of the Miami Marlins, in his Jupiter, Fla., spring-training office before an early-March team workout.

The actual article in Time Magazine starts with those words. We don't need to parse out how "praise" is close enough to love. He said it. He's a moron. Can we move on?

I only read Time for the naked pictures.

/chagrined

Did Ozzie say silly things about the Irish when he worked on the South Side? (He says all sorts of silly things, but I don't know if he ever got around to that.)

The point isn't whether Castro is evil; the point is that the market in Miami totally believes he is.

For Ozzie to say this is a massive publicity gaffe that will alienate all of the Cuban-Americans in Miami.

He will never have their support after this.

will alienate all of the Cuban-Americans in Miami. He will never have their support after this.

That's overstating it by quite a bit. Among the most ardent anti-Castroites, if they are already lukewarm about baseball, they are probably lost forever. Ardent baseball fans who don't really have strong feelings about Castro--and there are probably a good many of these--they know he's horrible, but they like their baseball and so they'll overlook it. I'd guess that many, many people are outraged for a week or two and then come back as it blows over. Lasting effect? Almost nothing.

The word "love" can be used in a lot of different connotations. I mean you can say "I love David Caruso's acting style" or "I love the way Benji Molina runs the bases" and while it's certainly at least somewhat complimentary, obviously it's a nuanced compliment.

These guys are butchers, they killed and imprisoned thousands and thousands of people.

While molesting young boys.

No, wait -- that was your crowd. Sorry about the confusion.

From the ESPN article on the incident:

On Thursday, Guillen talked to CBSSports.com about a routine dating to his early playing days.

"I go to the hotel bar, get drunk, sleep," Guillen said, according to the website. "I don't do anything else."

"I get drunk because I'm happy we win or I get drunk because I'm very sad and disturbed because we lose," Guillen said. "Same routine, it never changes. It's been the same routine for 25, 28 years. It doesn't change. I don't like to go out."

Guillen said the routine leaves him with little wiggle room before games.

"I don't have time," Guillen told CBSSports.com. "I've got to be here early, and I go to sleep so drunk that I have to recover in time to go to the park."

The word "love" can be used in a lot of different connotations.

This goes without saying (which means that people will say it all the time). I don't dispute that Ozzie might possibly have a case of verbal diarrhea and doesn't actually "love" Castro. He doesn't strike me as a particularly reflective person, so I'm not sure he's given much thought at all to Castro. Besides that, he seems to gravitate toward controversial things, so if everyone else in Miami is against Castro, the obvious position for him to take is to be (however mildly) for Castro.

My point is that people on this thread claimed he didn't say that he "loved" Castro. He unequivocally did in an article that apparently no one read (they read either the article in the Palm Beach Post that summarizes the article in Time, or they read the blurb above). We don't need to parse his other statements to figure out whether or not they mean "love" nor do we need to look to them to figure out how much of "love" he has for Castro.

What the statement demonstrates, pretty unequivocally, is that Ozzie shoots from the hip and doesn't think twice about doing so. Let him talk long enough (say, 5 minutes) and he'll say something stupid and offensive. Shock and outrage are not the proper responses to someone like this. Ignoring him is. Let's move on.

[Edited for clarity.]

Did ANYBODY actually read the ####### article in TIME ####### MAGAZINE?

Kind of hard to do that when it's behind a paywall.

My point is that people on this thread claimed he didn't say that he "loved" Castro. He unequivocally did in an article that apparently no one read (they read either the article in the Palm Beach Post that summarizes the article in Time, or they read the blurb above). We don't need to parse his other statements to figure out whether or not they mean "love" nor do we need to look to them to figure out how much of "love" he has for Castro.

But if you're going to conflate what Guillen said in those TIME excerpts with any sort of love for Fidel Castro's political rule, then you're completely misreading him. He explained what he meant in the followup quote, and that explanation is completely consistent with what he's said many times about Hugo Chavez, Castro's protege in Venezuela.

And if you're not conflating the two sentiments, then why even comment about it in the first place?

What the statement demonstrates, pretty unequivocally, is that Ozzie shoots from the hip and doesn't think twice about doing so. Let him talk long enough (say, 5 minutes) and he'll say something stupid and offensive. Shock and outrage are not the proper responses to someone like this. Ignoring him is.

You can say that about 99% of the non-sports related comments made by 99% of our professional athletes, from Ozzie Guillen to Tim Tebow to Curt Schilling, unless you're just taking them for their entertainment value.

Did ANYBODY actually read the ####### article in TIME ####### MAGAZINE?

No.

Do I need to trace every single quote I read to the source? Sometimes, I trust that the article I'm reading is quoting someone accurately...

These guys are butchers, they killed and imprisoned thousands and thousands of people.

While molesting young boys.

No, wait -- that was your crowd. Sorry about the confusion.

Awwww, you had to go there on Easter?

This has become an interesting thread. Is anyone here willing to stand up for Castro as a political leader on substantive grounds? Doesn't look that way. Does anyone here think that Ozzie Guillen's opinion on Castro is worth taking seriously? Apparently not.

And yet there's an argument.

Headline: "Repoz apologizes to BTF readers for blantant posting of thread designed to generate inflammatory posts not related to baseball."

Is anyone here willing to stand up for Castro as a political leader on substantive grounds? ... And yet there's an argument.

Here's the link to Counterpunch.

Here's the link to Counterpunch

Yes, a little known fact about Ozzie is that Alexander Cockburn was his boyhood pastor at the First Liberationist Church of Caracas.

I know when I'm researching the history of US/Cuban relations, the first resource I'm going to consult with is Ozzie Guillen.

The man isn't even Cuban. Who gives a ####? What's worse? Castro's rule or the fact that 60 years of our embargo against Cuba has done nothing but harm Cubans. We have had relations with dictators since the founding of our nation...propped up a few of them too. Is the Miami Cuban vote still that strong of a political force? I'd have figured the newer generation wouldn't care as much.

Is the Miami Cuban vote still that strong of a political force?

Ask Al Gore.

DB

EDITED to provide links for reference

Ask Al Gore

That Elian Gonzalez fiasco, which certainly was a key factor in Gore's defeat, was a rare case of the Democrats being punished for something they did wrong rather than for something they did right. You can't blame the GOP steam calliope for that one; it was a wholly self-inflicted wound.

The grandfather and (then toddler) father of one of my doctoral students were forced to flee Cuba around the time of Bay of Pigs. The grandfather continues to hold out for Castro to die, so that he can go back and reclaim his property (Google Earth has allowed them to scope it out).

My student feels that the best thing that could ever happen is for Castro to stick around just long enough that his (the student's) grandfather's generation passes away. His father's generation is vaguely interested in returning home, but not overly so, and my student has zero interest...and neither he nor his father want to have to deal with his grandfather wasting time and money in courts or (worse) on property about which his descendants don't truly care.

I also gather that this sentiment is not particularly rare in the Cuban-American community. If so, Ozzie's comments may pique a few folks, but won't be likely to make too many enemies.

My student feels that the best thing that could ever happen is for Castro to stick around just long enough that his (the student's) grandfather's generation passes away. His father's generation is vaguely interested in returning home, but not overly so, and my student has zero interest...and neither he nor his father want to have to deal with his grandfather wasting time and money in courts or (worse) on property about which his descendants don't truly care.

Wait, this kid and his father are rooting for a communist dictator to outlive their father/grandfather? That's, um, interesting.

"Sorry, Dad, we know it's been your lifelong dream to return to your homeland, but it would be much more convenient if you could just die."

There's an analogy in U.S. politics that goes like this: Cuban : Latino :: Vietnamese : Asian. Which would make Orange County, CA the analogous metro area to Miami. The attitudes and generational differences in Tom T's post? They're all there in the Vietnamese community as well. And the anti-communism of the Vietnamese-American community is still a factor in holding Orange County, overall, in the R column.

But there's one very large difference: the Vietnamese-American community has no effective veto on U.S. policy towards Vietnam. And as for Vietnam itself: yes, that's still the Communist Party running things. Only these days I'm not sure what their ideology is beyond the obvious, "We're the guys in charge." And dominant impulse of their foreign policy seems to be, "We want to do business with you." And the U.S. does have normal relations with Vietnam and does business.

One can think of several reasons why the Vietnamese has no effective policy veto. One is electoral: they might swing an Orange County congressional race, but they aren't going to move the needle on the California electoral vote.