Yet another catcher becoming manager. Is it a fluke or is there such a strong coaching component in catching that they get a head start on that career?

And the absence of Larry Bowa jokes next season will be appreciated.

Is it a fluke or is there such a strong coaching component in catching that they get a head start on that career?

I think the idea, and it's a logical one, is that catcher is the position that most effectively bridges the two key elements of the game. The catcher is a hitter, but he's also intimately involved with a team's pitching staff. No other position requires that kind of involvement with the two critical team components.

Braves fans will always remember Redmond as the guy who went 438/471/604 against Tom Glavine. He did that to some pretty good lefties: 432/421/514 against Buehrle, 448/500/552 against Al Leiter, 500/563/577 against Sabathia. And those are the four guys he had the most career PAs against.

Yet another catcher becoming manager. Is it a fluke or is there such a strong coaching component in catching that they get a head start on that career?

That's probably a part of it. I also think that you will usually have to have above-average intelligence to be a catcher in MLB, because there's so much to think about and to remember. Catchers are the only players who are expected to be offensive contributors but also have to know everything about pitching, so they'll know both sides of the game better than other players. Catching takes odd skills and hard work, so I'd guess that there are more players who make it to MLB on brains and effort at catcher than at any other position. All these things probably have some part in it.

#1, #2 - Plus, the catcher really must "keep his head in the game" at all times, thinking ahead a couple batters, pay attention to runners on base, know the tendencies of his pitcher and of the hitter...probably the most "involved" player in each game. Similar qualities are required of the manager for in-game tactics.

Unless he has bad breath, in which case he needs in-game Tic Tacs. Fresh mint is good for that.

No need to stock Bushmills in Ft. Lauderdale liquor stores.

No need to stock clothes either.

I also think that you will usually have to have above-average intelligence to be a catcher in MLB

But this one took the marlins job.

The best poker playing ball players I have met are pitchers, believe it or not. Sample size caveats, obviously.

#5 - I was going to say that Miami will get excited about batting practice now.

I came here to make a BP joke as well.

Yet another catcher becoming manager. Is it a fluke or is there such a strong coaching component in catching that they get a head start on that career?

Or just the latest MLB fad.

high fielding percentage as a catcher,

Is this the most useless statistic in baseball?

Or just the latest MLB fad.

I thought it went back quite a way. Isn't the catcher usually considered the on-field manager/captain? As far as I can remember, catchers were seen as more cerebral. In any player poll of who would make a good future manager, catchers dominate the list.

I think the idea, and it's a logical one, is that catcher is the position that most effectively bridges the two key elements of the game. The catcher is a hitter, but he's also intimately involved with a team's pitching staff. No other position requires that kind of involvement with the two critical team components.

I agree, and would add that the catcher is also intimately involved with the manager and pitching coach as far as planning and executing the strategy for the pitcher. Even though that's only one part of what goes into "managing," it's a big part, and in gives a catcher the experience to assist on a strategy level. Someone like Adrian Beltre is not involved in this kind of aspect.

Slightly OT but re Giambi and him being floated as a candidate for the Rockies' job, I was sifting through my copy of Baseball Prospectus, the 2000 annual, and Giambi's player comment mentioned that Billy Beane went out of his way to ask for Giambi's comments on roster decisions. I found this comment interesting in light of Giambi's recent connection with the vacant Colorado job, as it seems like Giambi was interested in managing even as a younger player. I would love to see him become a player-manager in 2013, basically as a PH and backup 1B.

(Though I haven't checked b-r to see whether he still has some offensive skills, e.g., the ability to mash RHP; I know he can still take a walk, which may be enough: a PH really only needs to be a better hitter than the pitchers he's batting for. Maybe it's not the ideal use of a roster spot, but neither is the 18th reliever on the staff.)

Will Mark Redman be his pitching coach?

#5, 7, 8 - Is there something I should know? What am I missing?

It seems like 1B is the position that produces the fewest managers. Mattingly is one I suppose and Giambi could be another.

Giambi had a reverse platoon split in 2012; scanning his last three seasons, I didn't see anything that strongly suggests he couldn't be a good PH.

Is player-managing still allowed? I know the NBA banned it, I kind of assumed MLB had done the same.

Looks like it is still allowed in baseball. (The NBA's ban was to avoid salary-cap circumvention by playing players extra to be the coach, although I'd think it'd be easy enough to just count all money paid players as player salary even if they also coach.)

I think this makes Redmond the first guy to manage in the majors whom I've also watched as a player. I remember him mostly as Joe Mauer's mediocre backup.

I think this makes Redmond the first guy to manage in the majors whom I've also watched as a player. I remember him mostly as Joe Mauer's mediocre backup.

That's how it starts. Then there aren't any players older than you and there are managers younger than you, your favorite childhood players start dying of old age...

I thought it went back quite a way.

You thought what went back quite a way -- former catchers as managers or catchers having a rep as the most cerebral of positions? I was only commenting on the former.

Using games managed among fairly recent managers:

non-Cs: LaRussa, Cox, Anderson, Mauch, Weaver, Durocher, Alston, Piniella, LaSorda, Baker, Williams, Tanner, Kelly, Hargrove, Valentine, Johnson, Martin, Howe, Robinson, Fregosi, Showalter, Alou, Garner, Schoendienst, Francona, Gardenhire, Zimmer, Tracy, Gaston, Manuel

Cs: Torre, Leyland, Houk, Bochy, Scioscia

We're down to 1700 games managed, you can keep going if you want. Catchers might be over-represented but it's hardly lopsided. The only position that seems seriously under-represented is pitcher (La Sorda's the only long-serving one of recent vintage, yes?).

Note, whether we should count folks like Leyland (or LaRussa or LaSorda) who never really played in the majors and worked their way up through the coaching system is unclear to me -- i.e. the position they played likely had no impact on their hiring as ML managers since they had proven they knew what they were doing as they worked their way up. It may have had something to do with them getting coaching opportunities to start with but that's a different pile to dig into. Of those who went from long ML career to managing (in generally quick fashion), you've got:

Piniella, Baker, Hargrove, Valentine, Johnson, Martin, Howe, Robinson, Fregosi, Alou, Garner, Schoendienst, Francona, Gaston, Robinson (and maybe Gardenhire and Zimmer?) vs. Torre, Bochy and Scioscia.

Anyway, if managers are predominantly Cs, it's a new trend. If it's still just something like 1 out of every 6-7 managers is a former C, that's in line with history. Of relatively new managers (I'll let you guys look up the minor-leaguers)

non-C: Ventura, Sveum, Mattingly, Gibson, and maybe Giambi

C: Metheny and Redmond and maybe Alomar (interim manager last I heard)

I'm not sure that constitutes a trend. Or did I forget somebody.

Catchers might be over-represented but it's hardly lopsided.

No one said it was.

For the 2012 season, 9 of 30 managers had been catchers, which is a pretty healthy clip.

#5, 7, 8 - Is there something I should know? What am I missing?

Actual headline from USA Today's website: Marlins replace Ozzie with batting-cage nudist.

"Ballplayers do some strange things. I did them naked," Redmond said. "I had to break a losing streak, so I did it by taking batting practice in the cage wearing nothing but spikes and batting gloves."

"And the next thing I knew, I was doing it seven or eight straight days."

The rest is history. The Marlins rallied and won the World Series that year.

I miss Larry Bowa on BTF quite a bit. On the baseball field, considerably less

Alomar (interim manager last I heard)

Bench coach in Cleveland though he still might get the Toronto job.

C: Metheny and Redmond and maybe Alomar (interim manager last I heard)

Does Eric Wedge still have a job?

It seems like 1B is the position that produces the fewest managers. Mattingly is one I suppose and Giambi could be another.

Tom Kelly and Mike Hargrove were both first basemen. As was Joe Torre at the end of his career.

high fielding percentage as a catcher,

Is this the most useless statistic in baseball?

It's in a close race with range factor for a first baseman.

Redmond continued the nude BP thing at least w/ Minnesota - other players (T.Hunter, for one) joined in as well.

That's how it starts. Then there aren't any players older than you and there are managers younger than you, your favorite childhood players start dying of old age...

then one day you look up and you're older than the freakin president of the united states ...

I fondly remember the "Smell 'em" Twins. Good luck to Redmond in Miami.

I think this makes Redmond the first guy to manage in the majors whom I've also watched as a player.

That can't be right. Ozzie Guillen, A.J. Hinch, Robin Ventura, and Mike Matheny, to name a few off the top of my head, are all very recent players.

Is this the most useless statistic in baseball?

Wpa for the win.

If Giambi is hired, we would be the first person to play one year and then manage the next since...?

That's how it starts. Then there aren't any players older than you and there are managers younger than you, your favorite childhood players start dying of old age...

I'd say it starts when you're older than at least one major league player (for me, Bryce Harper was the first to meet this criterion). But yes, I'm sure I'll look up one day a couple decades from now and realize that I'm older than everyone on the field.

That can't be right. Ozzie Guillen, A.J. Hinch, Robin Ventura, and Mike Matheny, to name a few off the top of my head, are all very recent players.

I'm probably one of the youngest semi-regular commenters on this board (20 years old), and I didn't start following baseball with any seriousness until 2007.

If Giambi is hired, we would be the first person to play one year and then manage the next since...?

Jake Taylor?

#22 - Thanks for that link. Miami certainly can be the place for the nudist. While I remember the name Mike Redmond, I'll be damned if I can remember anything about him: what he looks like, that he was a catcher, whether he was any good, etc. That doesn't mean much since that was during my personal doldrums when I was not paying much attention to baseball.

From that article comes the more interesting tidbit: "Redmond will be the fifth Marlins manager since 2010." OUCH! Welcome to the Jeff Loria meat grinder.

For the 2012 season, 9 of 30 managers had been catchers, which is a pretty healthy clip.

WHICH WOULD MAKE IT A RECENT TREND OUT OF STEP WITH THE HISTORICAL MIX as my rather long list of long-serving managers dating back about nearly 50 years demonstrated I thought.

Which could mean it is just the latest MLB fad -- ooh, look, that manager-former catcher was successful, we should hire a former catcher as manager.

If Giambi is hired, we would be the first person to play one year and then manage the next since...?

Jim Fregosi started the 1978 season as a player with the Pirates and finished it as a manager with the Angels.

28. Der_K Posted: November 01, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4290450)

Redmond continued the nude BP thing at least w/ Minnesota - other players (T.Hunter, for one) joined in as well.

- torii hunter taking batting practice nude?

here and i swore that wouldn't nothing get me back to minute maid park. i didn't know that nothin included nothin on

WHICH WOULD MAKE IT A RECENT TREND OUT OF STEP WITH THE HISTORICAL MIX as my rather long list of long-serving managers dating back about nearly 50 years demonstrated I thought.

First, providing a list of long-serving managers doesn't refute the question asked by Swedish Chef or the comment AG1F made. Chef asked if catchers have a leg-up on getting hired, not whether they become greater at a far higher percentage. (It's possible this hiring is a recent trend, though what you've delivered so far doesn't come close to answering that question).

Second, no one said that catchers are being hired in overwhelming numbers - that was your mistaken inference. Your own list of managers indicates that the long-serving managers of the past 50 years are still disproportionally, if mildly so, represented by former catchers.

Ha, Lisa! my ploy worked!

***

Walt, I think you're underestimating what percentage of managers were historically were ex-backstops. Looking at five seasons...
1951: 38% of games were managed by ex-catchers.
1961: 28%
1971: 8%
1981: 27%
1991: 33%

I'm not sure that constitutes a trend. Or did I forget somebody.

Girardi.

I'm not sure that constitutes a trend. Or did I forget somebody.

Girardi.

Girardi.

According to a random Google search, there were 13 former or one-time catchers managing in MLB during the 2009 season:

1) A. J. Hinch, Arizona Diamondbacks - was a catcher for the Athletics, Royals, Tigers, and Phillies between 1998-2004.
2) Eric Wedge, Cleveland Indians - Red Sox and Rockies between 1991-1994.
3) Jim Leyland, Detroit Tigers - catcher in the Tigers' minor league system between 1964-1969.
4) Fredi Gonzalez, Florida Marlins - catcher in the Yankees minor league system between 1982-1987.
5) Mike Scioscia, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim - catcher for the Dodgers between 1980-1992.
6) Joe Torre, Los Angeles Dodgers - catcher for the Braves and Cardinals between 1961-1970. Became a 3B/1B in 1971 and played until 1977.
7) Ken Macha, Milwaukee Brewers - began minor league career as a catcher but became primarily a 1B/3B/OF.
8) Joe Girardi, New York Yankees - caught for the Cubs, Rockies, Yankees, and Cardinals between 1989-2003.
9) Bob Geren, Oakland Athletics - caught for the Yankees and Padres between 1988-1991 and 1993.
10) John Russell, Pittsburgh Pirates - played catcher along with 1B/OF for the Phillies, Braves, and Rangers between 1984-1993.
11) Bruce Bochy, San Francisco Giants - caught for the Astros, Mets, and Padres between 1978-1980 and 1982-1987.
12) Don Wakamatsu, Seattle Mariners - caught for the White Sox in 1991.
13) Joe Maddon, Tampa Bay Rays - catcher in the Angels minor league system between 1976-1979.

From that article comes the more interesting tidbit: "Redmond will be the fifth Marlins manager since 2010."

technically, he'd be the 6th, if you count Brandon Hyde's one-game interim stint

While I remember the name Mike Redmond, I'll be damned if I can remember anything about him: what he looks like, that he was a catcher, whether he was any good, etc.

My recollection is that he is the same person as Matt Treanor.

Treanor is the one with the celebrity wife.

While I remember the name Mike Redmond, I'll be damned if I can remember anything about him: what he looks like, that he was a catcher, whether he was any good, etc.

He's also a 9-dan Go pro in Japan.

Redmond, a former big-league catcher with the Marlins and others, is an extremely highly-regarded young guy

I found this phrasing highly amusing, so I did my first handle change in quite some time.