Congratulations to our unanimous MMP Mike Schmidt! I don’t have a template set up for putting results in a tabular format but figured we needed results posted.
Player pts ballots 1sts Mike Schmidt 165 11 11 Dwight Evans 146 11 0 Rickey Henderson 131 11 0 Andre Dawson 128 11 0 Bobby Grich 112 11 0 Fernando Valenzuela 84 9 0 Robin Yount 72 8 0 Buddy Bell 56 6 0 George Foster 49 9 0 Steve McCatty 48 7 0 Nolan Ryan 47 7 0 Steve ...Read More...
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1 2 >"But he finished first in ALL THREE categories! Don't you see!? That means we should suspend logic and be ok with the result!"
Jim Johnson with a 3rd.
Raul Ibanez with a vote.
I just can't even...
I'm so smart!
John Lowe had Ibanez 10th and Cano missing.
...and Trout had a MUCH better season than either Lynn or Suzuki did, but his team didn't, so he gets left out in the cold (sigh).
Yes, I think many of us saw the writing on the wall for this result, so I can't say I'm surprised, but it is still disappointing that there is such a long way to go before the old guard dies out and gets replaced by some writers who actually follow the sport of baseball.
ballots have to be in immediately after the last game.
at least that was the rule
Yes, I know. I meant it rather facetiously.
Why is the BBWAA's website so crappy?
sorry. another poster the other day was not aware of that
You should have seen it a few short years ago.
Was it as bad as this website?
http://www.dolekemp96.org/main.htm
[No political statement intended.]
Infinitely worse. It literally hurt your eyes to look at it. I've seen a lot of terrible web design, but the old BBWA site was in an entirely different league.
For one, nobody is sure that Trout was actually worth 25 runs or whatever on defense. That’s probably an outlier, either in performance or measurement. Also, although Trout had a higher bWAR than Cabrera, is it really likely that he’s a better hitter than Cabrera? I know that what happened happened, but Trout could have a Hall of Fame career and never have a year on offense close to this one. He was almost certainly hit-lucky. (I’d love to be proven wrong and have Trout sustain this level of performance and improve on it over the next 15 years.) Those hits have value and so I think they should factor into the decision, but I can understand arguing that they shouldn’t.
Finally, non-performance criteria for MVP is obviously not very popular around here, but Cabrera’s shockingly competent move to third base allowed the Tigers to sign another elite hitter. I think that’s a variety of intangibility that’s, well, more than a little bit tangible.
And Triple Crowns ARE cool.
Twas a vomituous green, IIRC. Ben Hamper's a Tiger fan, AFAICT, but he's probably not pleased.
Same here on both counts. Ideally I would've given it to both of them, since neither of them was undeserving.
-- MWE
Frankly, if this helps Cabrera's HoF case, I am happy for it. When dealing with something essentially inconsequential, the ends can justify the means.
Nobody's sure Cabrera was only -5 runs on defense either. And are you honestly questioning whether Trout is a better defender than Cabrera?
That’s probably an outlier, either in performance
Whether it's an outlier in performance or not is immaterial to his value in 2012. As to measurement error, Cabrera is as likely to have benefited from it as Trout.
is it really likely that he’s a better hitter than Cabrera?
Again, whether he is as good a hitter as Cabrera in some true talent sense is immaterial to their respective values in 2012.
Cabrera’s shockingly competent move to third base
What's your evidence he was competent? What's your evidence this competence will continue? Shouldn't you apply the same standards as you applied to Trout?
Cabrera's move to 3B did not allow the Tigers to sign Fielder, a simple move to DH would have accomplished that. His move to 3B allowed the Tigers to put Delmon Young at DH. And the tangibility of that move is that Young (and the Tigers' RF) were so terrible, the team likely would have been better off keeping Inge at 3B, Cabrera at 1B and Fielder at DH. That's not Cabrera's fault of course ... any more than it was Trout's fault that he was kept in the minors for a month or he's not as amazing a CF as Bourjos or that his team didn't make the playoffs.
It's also strange to note the potential flukiness of Trout's season while Cabrera won the MVP only due to the fluke that he led in 3 categories in the same season. (Yes, he's always a threat in those categories but that he had a season where they all came together is still a fluke.)
I know what you're saying, but I don't think "fluke" is the right word. Cabrera didn't get lucky.
Sure he did. Bautista got injured in June.
Had the Angels made the playoffs, Trout likely would have won the MVP regardless of what the Tigers did. But neither Trout nor the Angels came up big down the stretch, and that's probably what did him in. It doesn't diminish what was a helluva season.
.289/.400/.500 (151 OPS+), 7/1 SB/CS, 23 runs in 30 games, Trout playing defense in the outfield. Your standards for luster are pretty high.
Coppola didn't even try and get Brando in a hot, tight black outfit. And I'll take a dancing Minelli over a dancing Shire any day.
This is right, in a sense. I did 100% expect Cabrera to win, for precisely this reason. My new anger that is manifesting today is based on all the 'explanations' which refuse to admit this very simple fact.
I haven't read one that says "I voted because he won the Triple Crown." Maybe those are out there and I just haven't seen them yet. But all the ones I've looked at pretend to make 'serious' arguments. Which is really aggravating when it's quite obvious that if Trout had three more hits (enough to win the 'batting title') in May, most of them would have voted for them.
That's a fair call. The funny thing is that the more a voter tries to explain their position, the less persuasive the argument. I'd take, "yep, I voted for Miggy because of the triple crown" as a somewhat plausible explanation. Anything more then that just subverts their own position to legitimise their stance.
2012 AL Trout 10.7, Cabrera 6.9
1968 AL Yaz 10.0, McLain 6.8
1964 NL Mays 10.7, Boyer 5.8
1961 AL Mantle 10.2, Maris 7.0
1934 AL Gehrig 10.1, Cochrane 3.7
So, pretty much historically bad. The writers turned back the clock 50 years. On the plus side for Trout, would you rather be in the group of Yaz, Mays, Mantle and Gehric or McLain, Boyer, Maris, and Cochrane?
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