That is one of the funniest things I've watched in a long time.

3. There is no way Obama could hold his own against NBA players without them letting him. He's the same age as Michael Jordan, and at this point I don't think even Jordan could do that.

Obama's brother-in-law, who coaches Oregon State, has said Obama could have played lower division college ball. That's pretty good but doesn't top Ford being able to play football at Michigan. I think Obama is probably in the best shape of any sitting president we've had in a long time, though. Maybe ever. He's youngish and he seems fairly dedicated to his exercise routine.

#49 great article.
I'd go with any of the presidents that had sword or bayonet experience. You only get one mistake in a knife fight; there is no learning curve.

How about Presidential Don Juans? Let's say you needed a President to seduce Angela Merkel...

While in the White House, Kennedy is said to have spent some, uh, intimate time with Marlene Dietrich -- but then again, so did his father many years before (though he's better known for his long affair with Gloria Swanson).

I'd probably go with Ford for best athleticism in his peak. Andrew Jackson, for a small and skinny guy, was one real SOB though. He's the Billy Martin of presidents.

Jackson was 6-1 according to Wikipedia. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but he certainly wasn't small. Lots of contemporaries talked about how imposing he was. 6-1 in those days was a big dude. I wouldn't say he had Martin's temperament. Martin could be voluble and charming and then go wildly off the handle. Jackson was a straight-out sob; he didn't fight because he was drunk or lost his temper. He fought because he had thought it out and decided he wanted to kill you. In terms of a manager, I'd say Ted Williams, gloomy and taciturn and disdainful.

I would think the Adamses would be in the bottom 10.

Ha! I'm related to them - although directly through Charles, not John Quincy. He was the drunken one - don't know if that means he was likely to be more athletic. I'll assume my prowess derives from some other ancestor.

Obama's brother-in-law, who coaches Oregon State, has said Obama could have played lower division college ball. That's pretty good but doesn't top Ford being able to play football at Michigan. I think Obama is probably in the best shape of any sitting president we've had in a long time, though. Maybe ever. He's youngish and he seems fairly dedicated to his exercise routine.

Both Bushes were in good shape in the White House, though the dad was obviously getting old. The younger though is a serious runner. Not my favorite president, but I suspect he's close to Obama in terms of being in shape. No question the two of them are in far better shape at the time of serving than almost any other president ever. For that matter, Romney is in great shape, esp for his age. I wonder if we'll ever have a fat, or even sluggish, president again? Or has the jiggling belly gone the way of a mustache?

Andrew Jackson would win and I don't think it would be particularly close.

The thing is that Jackson could be careless in a rage and went into a rage fairly easily. He once got shot in the back by the brother of a man he was about to start pistol-whipping.

Teddy Rooseveldt was a fairly serious practitioner of Boxing, catch wrestling, and jiu-jitsu both in his youth and during his presidential stint. He even famously sparred with a retired John L. Sullivan in the White House gymnasium, which is just plain stupid. A word to the wise - don't step into a boxing ring with any former elite boxer unless you're absolutely ready to get hurt. I don't care if they tell you they're just going to fool around and wouldn't dare muss the part in your hair, don't do it. There's reflexes and muscle memory that aren't fully under control, and that's even being generous enough to assume they won't be secretly chuckling at the thought of knocking you on your ass by accident.

Andrew Jackson would win and I don't think it would be particularly close.

Agreed. Mostly because he would bring a gun to the knife fight. After her ran out of bullets, he would then use his cane.

If only Ben Franklin had wanted to be President!

If only Aaron Burr had succeeded in stealing the election from Jefferson...at age 77, he married a younger widow for her money and they eventually divorced because he was spending all her money and (according to some) cheating on her.

As one historian has said of Andrew Jackson, a teacher would not have written in his school permanent record, "plays well with others." He did not play well with others. He led; you followed. If you were not going to follow, there was going to be a problem, one in which he had only one way to resolve.

I wonder if we'll ever have a fat, or even sluggish, president again?

Chris Christie sure hopes so.

The thing is that Jackson could be careless in a rage and went into a rage fairly easily. He once got shot in the back by the brother of a man he was about to start pistol-whipping.

Never underestimate the power of audacity, though --

Since the knife fight rules DO allow for alliances, this might end up being Jackson's Achilles heel... entirely possible that a large chunk of other Presidents, few of whom were really stupid and many of whom were plenty devious, would decide among 15-20 of themselves that of paramount importance was taking out Old Hickory first. Given that Jackson would probably find common cause with only Van Buren and maybe Jefferson -- you could easily easily see a motley gang of say... JQ Adams convincing Nixon, Reagan, JFK, LBJ, Clinton, FDR, TR, Wilson, and the Bushes that they ought to form an early alliance to deal with Jackson.

Chris Christie sure hopes so.

I hope he runs just to see how this plays out. John Jeremiah Sullivan has a piece on Cuba in the NYT magazine that includes his discombobulation at a resort pool as he realizes that all the tourists wear skimpy bikinis, even the really fat and grotesque ones, leading him to think about the particular American revulsion against showing one's fatness. Though obviously if Christie gets the votes of all the obese, he'll win in a landslide

The thing about Christie is that he's not a jolly fat guy. He's pretty grumpy.

FWIW - here's a top 10 list that puts Ford #1...

Did W really play ball at Yale? I know his dad did, but I had never heard the younger did, only that he was a cheerleader. If he did, that raises him a few notches in my estimation of him.

at age 77, he married a younger widow for her money and they eventually divorced because he was spending all her money and (according to some) cheating on her.

Heh, didn't know that. But the king of old age fertility has to be Tyler. He has a grandson or two still living!

The thing about Christie is that he's not a jolly fat guy. He's pretty grumpy.

Chris Christie, the new Andrew Jackson?

Did W really play ball at Yale? I know his dad did, but I had never heard the younger did, only that he was a cheerleader. If he did, that raises him a few notches in my estimation of him.

No. He played rugby, a club sport, but not a varsity sport.

Chris Christie, the new Andrew Jackson?

If you watch the youtube of Christie screaming at some guy who said something snide at the boardwalk, that right there is Andrew Jackson incarnate! Screaming, "Bring it on! Yeah, you better walk away!" While people look on in bafflement.

I don't care what the competition is, I'm putting my money on Washington.

We will never have a fat president again unless he gets to office and then plumps up. (I think Bill Clinton looked different by the time he left office, for example.) The American people want the leader to look like a leader, not like themselves, and so fat and short and Roy-Face-ugly candidates are at a serious disadvantage.

Teddy can win after they win a World Series, but it's a funny gag the way it is. I'd also like to see the team add a new president each year and then more or less randomly choose who to run from the costume catalog each game. They could even keep the "Roosevelt never wins" gag going but it wouldn't be as obvious.

Also, the question of athleticism has two aspects: Peak and Presidential Conditioning. Roosevelt and Obama and Bush 43 were pretty young while in office and get a significant boost compared to someone like Bush 41 who had a higher peak but was old in office. It's like Peak vs Career when discussing the HoF.

This is a really good thread.

Wow, Tyler. I didn't know that.

His life was 1790-1862. His son, born when he was 63, had kids at age 71 and 75. While 63 is old for a daddy it's nowhere near a record, he's got nothing on Walder Frey. There must be somebody out there with a grandfather born before 1750.

We will never have a fat president again

I think Christie can win in 4 years, actually, if he learns to control his temper. That's a bigger handicap for him than being a lard ass.

The "President Tyler has two living grandchildren" trivia fact is the one that has blown my mind the most of any trivia I've heard in the past 5 years.

The fact that a famous man born in 1790 could have grandchildren alive in 2012 was absolutely unbelievable to me.

Both Bushes were in good shape in the White House, though the dad was obviously getting old. The younger though is a serious runner. Not my favorite president, but I suspect he's close to Obama in terms of being in shape.

I believe that W gave up running because of his knees and took up biking. I really don't think Obama is a very good athlete or even a good enough basketball player to have played DIII. He looks really stiff when playing basketball. He reminds me of the grad students I would see who were more athletic than his peers, but never really played enough basketball growing up to not look a little bit awkward. Probably didn't help he was living in Indonesia at the age when most kids pick up sports.

He looks really stiff when playing basketball.

He's also not 19 years old anymore.

I believe that W gave up running because of his knees and took up biking. I really don't think Obama is a very good athlete or even a good enough basketball player to have played DIII. He looks really stiff when playing basketball. He reminds me of the grad students I would see who were more athletic than his peers, but never really played enough basketball growing up to not look a little bit awkward. Probably didn't help he was living in Indonesia at the age when most kids pick up sports.

You're right. He was running sub-7 miles in his workouts then stopped. I have read he's a good biker but don't really know.

I also will say that I am skeptical of the Obama could have played real college ball argument. He was on a great h.s. team but only made varsity as a senior and barely played, right? There are late bloomers in the world, no doubt, but that's an exception. But Obama is in fine shape. And I used to have friends in Chicago who worked out at the same time as Michelle, and they said she is ridiculous shape.

You're right. He was running sub-7 miles in his workouts then stopped.

Pfft. Paul Ryan could do that for 26.2.

But Obama is in fine shape. And I used to have friends in Chicago who worked out at the same time as Michelle, and they said she is ridiculous shape.

Michelle Obama is in fabulous shape.... I mean - she's 48 fer chrissakes and I think she could pass for a woman in her 30s just fine if she dressed the part.

Michelle Obama is in fabulous shape.... I mean - she's 48 fer chrissakes and I think she could pass for a woman in her 30s just fine if she dressed the part.

Every time she wears a sleeveless dress, her guns look better than those on most women in their 20s.

Michelle Obama is in fabulous shape.... I mean - she's 48 fer chrissakes and I think she could pass for a woman in her 30s just fine if she dressed the part.

Her outfits always make her look so darn hippy (because, I suspect, she IS hippy). And those half-pushups she does make me a little sad.
Still, in the First Lady Knife-Fight, my money's on Mrs. Obama.

Michelle's brother really did play high-level college basketball, and was two-time Ivy League Player of the Year at Princeton. So it's no surprise that Michelle would be in such good shape.

I wonder if Craig Robinson has ever played in the president's pickup game.

Every time she wears a sleeveless dress, her guns look better than those on most women in their 20s.

Hell, they look better than most MEN in their 20s.

I would sign up for a charity bike ride led by W and Barry Bonds in a heartbeat.

This is a great, great thread.

Pierce was a drunk, right? He died of cirrhosis of the liver, anyway, so I'm assuming he's a serious contender for least athletic President.

I seem to remember when Bill Richardson was running for President, there was a lot of talk that his fatness was hurting him, even to the point that his aides were insisting he just looked fat, he was actually in quite good shape. I think this is known as the "Prince Fielder Defense."

Michelle Obama is in fabulous shape..

Rush Limabugh said she's fat. Also presumably a Viagra user.

Pierce was a drunk, right? He died of cirrhosis of the liver, anyway, so I'm assuming he's a serious contender for least athletic President.

I think he was considered a heavy - but functional and jovial drinker - up until he became President. On a train to DC (for his own inauguration, I think) - the train derailed and his last remaining son (two previous children died very young) was killed. It was apparently horrific - I think the child was decapitated in front of him and Pierce hurriedly tried to cover his son's body before his wife (who was adamantly opposed to him running for President) saw it. His drinking picked up significantly thereafter.

What's more - Pierce, though a northerner, was very critical of Lincoln during the Civil War (especially habeas corpus suspensions, etc) and was time and again hounded by Lincoln stalwarts. He also got into a rather notable spat with Sec of State William Seward -- to the point that Seward all but accused him in writing of sedition, and Pierce demanded his outraged response be put on file. In fact, after the assassination of Lincoln, I believe an angry mob gathered outside his home and came very close to turning ugly because it was felt that Pierce wasn't showing the appropriate level of symbolic mourning (black curtains and such).

If you wanted to pick a President more beset by tragedy (I suppose, discounting those assassinated!) -- it would be awfully hard to find a better sad sack than Pierce, and I think that might even include Lincoln.

On the unhealthy subject, I know Grant was fond of Vin Mariani (which, for the uninformed, is red wine strengthened with a nice helping of cocaine) but I thought another President was as well. I may be misremembering that.

Interesting stuff on Pierce, I knew some of that--the bit about his sons--but also knew he was known as "Franklin Pierce, hero of many a well-fought bottle."

#71! "...six foot twenty, ####### killing for fun..."

Also, how has no one bet on Nixon yet? In a fight to the death, I'm probably betting on Nixon. He'll nuke you from space.

I would not bet against Eleanor Roosevelt in any endeavor, up to and including war of the knives.

Wow, as a long time lurker and occasional poster I have to say this might be my favorite BTF thread ever. I might be wrong on this but it is my understanding that Franklin Pierce was kind of the Todd Marinovich of presidential history. His family was really into politics and sent him to D.C. at a really young age to essentially groom him into becoming a senator or president one day. While he was there he was successful in making the right friends and networking but turned into a pretty serious alcoholic, gambler, roustabout. He still showed a ton of potential and became a congressman while he was still in his twenties and looked like he was going to fulfill all of his promise before flaming out spectacularly due to all the tragedy in his life and alcoholism. By the time he reached the pinnacle of his career he was pretty much toast and during his years in the White House the country was being run by a depressive highly functioning rummy. Then after his career in politics was over he spent the rest of his days skateboarding around Newport Beach selling weed and working at an airbrushed t-shirt stand, or something...wait that was Marinovich.

Also, how has no one bet on Nixon yet? In a fight to the death, I'm probably betting on Nixon. He'll nuke you from space.

Ah, I think Nixon, like many pols, was best at making you think he was more of a man or whatever than he actually was. Terrible football player, came up with plays for NFL teams that didn't work, couldn't pull off a third rate burglary, etc. etc. etc. Probably was a lousy bowler, too. My guess is with Nixon on the team you lose, you pay the price, he doesn't, and pretty soon someone's talking about having nixon on their team again.

I was convinced that Teddy would win during the very first pro game at the new stadium, which was an exhibition against the Orioles. But then they'd claim that since it was only an exhibition, it wouldn't count.

Probably was a lousy bowler, too.

Actually, Nixon was an avid bowler. His administration has been referred to as the Golden Age of White House bowling.

EDIT: Of course, you have to be properly attired to bowl at the White House.

Assuming at some point they Let Teddy Win: then what?

Nationals clinch playoffs!

Third most interesting congressional hearing of the day

Interview with John Tyler's grandson from last January.

then what?

He retires?

They'll never let Teddy win. Why would they? They've been doing this same shtick for a million years, and they're still getting stuff written about them. Anyone who follows baseball semi regularly knows Teddy and the Nats. He wins, it's another side show. Another boring dot race.