flip

that was a hell of a ####### game. sixers came back from an 8 point deficit midway through the 4th quarter and finished the game on something like a 20-6 run from that point.


things:

1, jrue holiday finished the game with 19 points, 8 rebounds, 12 assists, and 3 steals. i know that PER and win shares and O-rating don't like him right now, but he is having an excellent season.

2, dorell wright only played 14 minutes, so again, he didn't do that much. but, evan turner put up 12, 5, and 4 assists, while jason richardson and nick young combined for 44 points on 14/27 shooting.

3, dispencer hawesome update: 6, 3, 2 assists, and 2 blocks. i'd say that's 43% hawesome.

4, hawes, kwame brown, and lavoy allen combined for 10 points and 11 rebounds in 46 minutes. i know that they've been put out by the bynum injury, but they really need to do better than that.

and 5, while it's seems to now be a distinct possibility that bynum either A) doesn't get back to 100% by the end of the season, or B) doesn't get back to 100% again for the rest of his career, or C) just doesn't get back, period, if he does come back, and if he is 100%, there's a lot to like here. jrue holiday has taken the next step, averaging 19 and 9, and between him, jason richardson, dorell wright, and nick young, the sixers as a team are shooting 38% from beyond the arc. if you add bynum to that, this looks to be a very dangerous team.

That was Toronto, right? I mean, Toronto.

Someone scored 138 points in a game. No, seriously.

RT @DangerGuerrero BREAKING: Nick Young has just enrolled at Grinnell College.

As a huge 'Melo and Knicks fan, I'm enjoying the season so far.

As a huge 'Melo and Knicks fan, I'm enjoying the season so far

I assume you went to Syracuse or are somehow connected to the school.

507. Been a Knicks fan all my life (though I tuned out during the Isiah era, and just found Marbury's career arc sad) I've been back onboard since Donnie's first year. I liked Melo, but the insane amount of criticism he took as a player during his first year and a change with the Knicks has put me solidly in his corner. I thought things got way out of hand last season, with regards to Melo getting torn down. I'm no basketball expert, but I thought the nasty articles written after the Heat won the title, basically saying Anthony had no chance to ever win a title with the Knicks, along with the assertions that the Nuggets were better off without 'Melo were over the top. So, I'm a huge Knicks fan, but Melo's quest to prove these opinions wrong is also captivating for me. Apologize for any grammar-spelling sloppiness, written on I-Phone.

[508] I find it hard to believe that criticism of a player can ever be over the top where he quits on the team/coach and openly admits to doing so.

509. Did he ever admit to quitting on D'Antoni, though? How much of it was a media firestorm? For instance, Isola was bringing up Dolan's involvement in the Anthony trade for months upon months on Twitter and in his column, and then yesterday I read quotes from Walsh himself basically saying he has no regrets about the trade and thought Anthony was a guy who could "do everything." (In other words, well worth including Felton in the trade) So basically, I can't trust media assertions that Anthony quit, considering how much everything gets sensationalized. (unless you are talking about quitting on the Nuggets, a situation I am less familiar with in terms of evidence and quotes) I did think Anthony was out of shape last season, which is inexcusable, but to me, forgivable.

[510] There's an MSG interview from last Spring that I had in mind, I'm sure I ntoed it on this thread back when it happened but this popped up after a quick Google search.

EDIT: I just find anyone being a huge Anthony fan to be shocking. I think, college basketball rivalries/associations aside, he's easily one of the 5 most hateable NBA stars and probably top 2 with Howard.

re: the 138 point game. That reminds me of Adam Sandler's bit about Wilt Chamberlain's game.

EDIT: I just find anyone being a huge Anthony fan to be shocking. I think, college basketball rivalries/associations aside, he's easily one of the 5 most hateable NBA stars and probably top 2 with Howard.


Oh, there's plenty of more hateable people in the NBA. You are right, though, he's not a sympathetic figure. He deserved every bit of criticism he got (and gets).

I really dislike Carmelo but can't see how he's top 5 hatable. I dislike him the way you dislike your annoying nephew who sits on the couch instead of going to shovel the driveway with the other guys. He's a chubby spoiled brat who has everything going for him but not the maturity to make use of it.

But come on the NBA has some guys who are straight out menaces to society and Carmelo for all his immaturity seems like a teddy bear when he's not being a whiny baby.

I didn't watch all of the Lakers/Nets game, but do have a couple of content-light thoughts -

-Man, Lopez really hustles down the floor to get on offense faster than any center I've seen. He literally can't wait to get away from defending and rebounding.
-I miss Watson on the Bulls. He hasn't been great, but man, he's been better than Hinrich so far.
-Terrible shot selection by BKN down the stretch.
-Howards FTing seems much worse than Shaq's in his prime. On this team, it's probably more likely to hurt them than Shaq's did back in the day.

I'm a Syracuse grad who was a freshmen the same year he was, so obviously I love him for what he did there, but even as a Knicks fan, I've never been a huge Melo fan. Can't tell you how many people said to me after the trade something like "you must be so pumped to have Melo on the Knicks".

I don't really find him that hateable. The stuff where he admitted to not trying all that hard last year before Woodson took over was pretty bad, but mainly I just thought he wasn't as good as the general perception so I wasn't thrilled to have him on the team. Things are going pretty good this year. I think I might be ready to say I think the Knicks are clearly the second best team in the East this year, whereas before the season I saw them grouped together with a bunch of teams. If they played Miami in a 7 game series starting tomorrow, I'd think they would at least have a chance to win. Before the season i would've given them no chance to beat Miami.

I have always liked Watson. One reason I like BKN's team is that I think they have some nice bench players.

To clarify, I said "stars" meaning that amongst the guys that are regularly promoted by the league and its partners I think he's clearly in "bad guy" category. I'll stand by that.

all of those things i linked earlier have nothing, absolutely nothing, on this:

...The current iteration of the Sixers is much the same, a slow-it-down, defense-first outfit that is both as egalitarian in its ball distribution as an Israeli kibbutz and as conservative in its game-planning as the U.S. Supreme Court under Roger Taney.

yeah, i'm not reading any more of that. i will, however share some of the comments that appear below this article:

Fantastic article, Mike

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Great piece.

That was a joy to read. Thank you for that!

This article perfectly encapsulates my newfound love for Nick Young. Thanks for this. I’m going to take a stab in a brightly lit room and say that you read DFW.

Bravo, Mr. Baumann

This article is too well-written to be a Liberty Ballers article.

yeah, i'm not reading any more of that.

That was a joy to read. Thank you for that!

Someone scored 138 points in a game. No, seriously.

apparently they've led the NCAA in scoring in 17 of the last 19 years, and they also had a guy score 89 points in a game last season.

Kobe Bryant on Jack Taylor's 138:

"(Taylor) must have been wearing the Mambas, man. Only Mambas have no conscience to shoot the ball that much," Bryant said.

David Larson, a guy on the other team, scored 70 and was 34/44 from the field.

You haven't read about the Grinnell college team?

They run a full-court press on defense on every defensive possession, and they take the first vaguely open look (preferably from 3) on every offensive possession. To deal with the obvious exhaustion issues that come from playing such an insane brand of basketball, they get pretty much every player on a deep bench at least 10-15 minutes in every game, often playing in shifts like a hockey team. It's certainly something.

Primer RT:

@ProHoopsHistory:

The NBA should just really show Red on Roundball to get across to players on what flopping is

they had a nationally televised game a few years back... that was ENTERTAINMENT.
incidentally, the guy who scored 89 in a game last year played in this game as well - 7 points on 2 for 3 shooting in 14 minutes off the bench.

Love is back.

Someone scored 138 points in a game. No, seriously.

Didn't even shoot 50% though. Individual numbers really only matter within the context of winning and losing IMO, and gunning for personal records when your team is winning by 75 seems kinda hollow to me. I think the 70 on 34/44 is much more impressive. Huge points totals should happen cuz the player is on fire and not just cuz he shoots a ridiculous amount of times with a mediocre percentage. YMMV.

Guess that's why I wasn't an Iverson fan.

But most of his shots were threes - he shot 68% from two and had a tsp of 62%.
Granted, that whole game sounds hard to evaluate - 70 pt guy got the ball after faith broke the press and, as I understand, was shooting a lot of open layups - meanwhile,Taylor wasn't playing d on their half of the court (part of their hyper press and coach's plan to have a designated scorer).
Just a weird, weird thing.

Edit: Or is my sarcasm meter broken?

Edit: Or is my sarcasm meter broken?

Nah. I'm usually not impressed with players running up personal stats against clearly unworthy opponents. It seems almost unsportsmanlike to me.

But most of his shots were threes

Yeah, at a 38% clip. That's not bad, but it's not so great that it warrants taking 71 of them either.

I don't know. I guess I should be more impressed.

I think the performance is hard to analyze, because Grinnell doesn't play anything that looks like conventional basketball.

Read the bpro article, then see what you think.
If u want to evaluate this game through normal means, that is. Personally, I think it's impressive as hell, efficient scoring though the other team knew what was up...

bpro Link

that's another bad loss for the sixers. they deserved to lose, but that's not much of a consolation.

the sixers shot 36% from the field, they were outrebounded by 16, and they allowed cleveland to shoot 13/23 from beyond the arc. just looking at play index, there hasn't been a single team to win a game with those 3 conditions.

Buzz out there that Bynum may be out for the year (maybe STEAGLES has already posted something).

Lakers announced that there is "no timetable" for Nash's return.

OKC/LAC playing a tough one right now.

Love was a 34/14. Hibbert triple doubled (blks) and horford nearly did (w asts, was a board short)
Oh, and cha is a win short of last year's 10 games in...

#532 - Those are some interesting looking numbers to be sure. I'd really like to see a tape of this game if it ever becomes available. I think #530 nails it; the style of play from both teams (but Grinnell in particular) just doesn't resemble basketball as we know it.

It's looking more and more likely that the Knicks were right not to re-sign Jeremy Lin. It's still a small sample but then again, Linsanity was based on a small sample as well.

It doesn't; agreed

Lin's not healthy, I'd wait awhile before concluding too much...

[538] Agree he's not healthy. However, him not being healthy after this long after a relatively minor injury is another concern of its own.

Thoughts on some games I watched tonight...

MIN-DEN: Love's post moves were a thing of beauty. Didn't realize he had that type of arsenal. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the tough time at the line was due in part to the injury/wrap. Gallo was also great bringing DEN back, I am a Gallo fanboy but I continue to think he needs to just ditch the 3 and focus on creating in the half, DEN should run the offense through him. Kinda cool watching a MIN-DEN game and feel like you're watching two legitimately good basketball teams go at it.

CHI-HOU: Ugh. I thought this one was ugly. The Asik block on Noah's drive at the end was sort of poetic and I loved seeing Toney Douglas contribute.

Tim Duncan is still amazing. He put up 20 and 15 tonight against the Celtics and his current PER would be the best of his career. Obviously, he likely won't be this good the entire year but he's 36 years old.

I didn't know Lin was hurt.

that's another bad loss for the sixers. they deserved to lose, but that's not much of a consolation.

the sixers shot 36% from the field, they were outrebounded by 16, and they allowed cleveland to shoot 13/23 from beyond the arc. just looking at play index, there hasn't been a single team to win a game with those 3 conditions.

Just think where they would have been without Dorell Wright's contributions!

Just think where they would have been without Dorell Wright's contributions!

this really isn't much to puff my chest about, but wright has essentially been league average this year by measure of PER.

and since the dorell wright conversation here centers around his being compared to andre iguodala, his PER is 2 points higher. in fact, coming into tonight, iguodala and evan turner had the exact same PER.

my comments at the time seem to ring true, at least to this point in the season. iguodala has taken a step back in terms of efficiency (his 3P% has gone back to his career average and his TO rate is 50% higher than it was last year while his assist rate is 40% lower), and in terms of defense, denver has gone from 20th in D-rating last year to 21st this year, so his impact there hasn't exactly been gargantuan. and individually, his D-rating has gone from 98 to 106.

and while wright hasn't improved to the extent i thought likely, he's averaging 8 rebounds, 2 steals and a block per 36 minutes. if you add the 16 PTS/36 he'd have if he was shooting his career averages (43/36/80 v. 33/35/87), that really is just as good a player as i had him pegged as prior to the season.


look, this is all a small sample, but if i've been wrong, i haven't been that wrong.

and since it's in the conversation:

maybe it's not quite 50/50 whether wright plays better than iguoadla this year, but if we judge them by various categories:

PER, TS%, O-rating, D-rating, TRB%, AST%, BLK%, STL%, MPG, and PPG.

i'd say TS%, TRB%, and BLK% are in the bag for wright.
i'd say that AST% and MPG are in the bag for iguodala.
but the rest, PER, O-rating, D-rating, STL%, and PPG could go either way.

wright: 4 (PER, TRB%, STL%, D-rating)
iguodala: 5 (MPG, PPG, TS%, AST%, BLK%)
tossup: O-rating (iguodala has an advantage of 98 v. 96, but since 98 is 10+ points below his career average, that's not exactly much of a win)

also, while PPG is in iguodala's favor, PTS/36 is in wright's, for whatever that's worth

I'd really like to see a tape of [the Grinnell] game if it ever becomes available.

Here you go.

"and the fans are storming the court! Well, more like mildly walking out there... "
(corresponding footage shows players cordially shaking hands on the sideline by an empty court)

#545 - Thanks!

I retract my earlier comment about not being impressed by Taylor's performance. That barrage of 3's at the end sure was something to see.

On the negative side, the blatant lack of defense Grinnell played at the end to get Taylor more shots was a bit shameless though. They rarely left their side of the court and allowed Faith Baptist to score one cherry picked layup after another. Seeing the game, David Larson's 70 on 34/44 shooting suddenly looks a lot less impressive since so many of his points came on wide open layups. Taylor's night was far beter. None of his shots were gimmee's.

Good game going on in Memphis right now.

Apologies if this has been discussed, but - forgetting about whether the 138 points was a sham, etc. - might this college coach be onto something as far as the pure strategy of winning a basketball game?

Jack Taylor, of the Grinnell College Pioneers, scored 138 points in a game last night, against Faith Baptist Bible College. It's a mindblowing number, shattering the old NCAA mark of 113, and it's being trumpeted as one of sports' all-time individual achievements. It is not. It is ########. It is just the latest incarnation of Grinnell's decades-old strategy of seeking media attention for records achieved through a complete bastardization of basketball.

...

"The strategy was to use a full court press after a made basket, with the caveat that [the player seeking the record] would not cross into the defensive side of the court. So, after our opponents broke our press, we were essentially playing four-on-five, which enabled the other team to take quicker shots and fall into our game plan.

"The rationale is to essentially trade off a quick two or more attempts at lower probability 3-point shots. Given the high pace required for the system, Grinnell shifts in five players every 30 to 45 seconds. Within each shift there is a primary shooter who will take the bulk of threes (or shots) during the shift."

I went ahead and watched the link given in 545. It was definitely a matter of inferior opposition, and according to the announcer, the game was an "exhibition" for Faith Baptist but yet somehow counted for Grinnell. That makes no sense to me, but whatever. The Faith Baptist team fell far behind in the first half because they couldn't score many times with a 2-1 advantage. They missed a lot of layups. What if Grinnell were to play a team that matched them in athletic ability and skills? Grinnell pressed frantically but didn't seem to be unusually good at it. A team with good discipline and good ball handling ought to be able to break the press routinely and get routine 2-1 or 3-2 chances. As for Taylor, he had some trouble getting his shot off when guarded by someone who was about 6-4. But that 6-4 guy wasn't very mobile, and Taylor could get around him to drive or run away from him to get a three from somewhere else.

Las season I was following a team whose leading scorer was a sub-6-foot point guard who shot a lot of threes. They made it into the (Div. 1) NCAA tournament, but went one and out. In that game the small point guard was defended by a highly mobile 6-4 or so guy who got right in his grill - and said point guard started making a lot of bad decisions, leading to turnovers and forced shots. And I think the bad decisions weren't a mental thing - they were physical. Under physical pressure, he simply couldn't see, and if he couldn't see, he couldn't dish and he couldn't make good decisions. Put Grinnell against a middling Division 1 team, and that's what would probably happen to Taylor. Overall, they'd get shredded.