So...has Deron Williams (#NBARank 10) replaced Melo as the league's most overrated "superstar"?

I don't know, but I did see part of the Brooklyn/Miami game last night, and as Windhorst suggested in his story last night, it seems almost impossible at this point that Miami will not be in the Finals again, and I can't really picture anyone in the West beating them, either. SA appears to match up with them the best, with perhaps the Lakers as a "wild card" in that scenario, if they can pick things up. OKC is still very good, but as I said at the time, and as others said, I think the Harden deal moved them further from the title, short-term.

Williams is apparently playing through a wrist injury at the moment.

Be glad Kobe was acquired by the Lakers. You have had the privilage of watching up close and rooting for one of the 5 most physically gifted players of all time.

Might be my Lakers fandom but I completely disagree with that, though obviously Kobe would be high on that list. RANKING TIME!!

Most physically gifted players (basis includes gifts comparative to competition):
Lebron
Shaq
Wilt
David Robinson
Kevin Johnson
Chris Webber
Michael Jordan
Dr J
Vince Carter
Shawn Kemp

I don't see how early or Peak Kobe gets on that list.

You kind of have to consider Kareem physically gifted, but in another way. I would probably put D12 on that list, too. There are also probably several guys who never amounted to much who belong on there (Desmond Mason, Darvin Ham, Harold Miner, even Nate Robinson).

I am watching this early Knicks-Suns game and it is impressive how quickly the Suns' defense disintegrates if the Knicks set one decent screen. Apparently nobody cares to switch or run through the screen, or if one guy does, both do. I am also starting to hope that Michael Beasley becomes NBA Buck Showalter and every team he leaves becomes instantly good.

Sheed's argumentation style (ejected for 2 T's in 1st quarter for SCREAMING "Ball don't lie" at the ref who called him for his first T after the missed FT) reminds me so much of my time as a Philly public school teacher. Of course, Sheed is a product of the Philly public school system. I really wish we had ejections as a classroom management option.

put D12

Olajuwon as well, IMO.

Darvin Ham is coaching in the league IIRC and is well-liked--may be a head coach at some point.

It would also be cool to have a list of the least physically gifted/athletic guys...but the list might, uhh, skew a little white. Rex Chapman was a very good athlete; Kirilenko has some interesting physical gifts as well.

I think I would have Ed Nealy and Mark Madsen on my "least" list, if we do not consider being 6-9 or so a "gift."

If we do...Scott Brooks would be up there.

Eric Montross was not physically gifted.I think Stojko Vrankovic was the least athletic and coordinated player I have seen.

Williams is apparently playing through a wrist injury at the moment.

Has he been playing through it since the day he was traded to NJ? Somewhat serious question.

EDIT: I hate physical gift rankings. I think it's harder than one would expect to decide exactly what counts as a physical gift. I also think it's complicated by things like how sure Howard can run and jump, but he's also undersized for his position. So do we count that as a "negative gift"?

Eric Montross was not physically gifted

Well, this is obviously just a "fun" thing, not an issue, but Montross was gigantic and strong, which is why he had a career, so in a sense that is a "gift." But yes, he was very awkward for a guy who played at North Carolina and in the NBA.

I don't really remember Vrankovic, but the Showtime Lakers briefly had a guy, Mike Smrek, who could give him a run, I think. It is really too bad that Smrek played before the Shrek movies.

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Williams says he sprained the wrist against the Clippers a few days ago. He supposedly has a lot of little physical issues and is shooting poorly. Avery Johnson:

"I think he's banged up his elbow and his wrist," Johnson said. "That's not a great recipe for success for a shooter. So I just think it's a matter of him getting extremely confident in his shot, and he's just been nursing a lot of little issues -- wrist, hand, elbow. It's not an excuse; it's just a fact."


Before the season, Williams said he'd probably have to undergo offseason surgery to clean out bone spurs in his left ankle, but took a cortisone shot to ease the pain. Other minor injuries have piled up ever since.

I think the "physically gifted" point about Kobe is about the 17 years of sustained peak performance.

A lot of other guys on that list are physical freaks whose bodies didn't hold up for them.

The Basketball Jones discussed least athletic players the other day, and it was refreshingly color-blind. Names mentioned included Andre Miller, Stephen Jackson, Pierce, Chuck Hayes, Z-Bo, Asik, Nick Collison, and Nash. (I certainly wouldn't consider prime Nash a candidate, but I guess maybe now.)

I assume most of the least athletic players legitimately sucked -- Jack Haley, Steve Scheffler, etc. Maybe Khalil El-Amin or something if you want diversity. In terms of guys who were actually good... John Stockton? Some of the bruiser big men, e.g. Charles Oakley? The too-tall-to-get-out-of-their-own-way crew, e.g. Yao or Smits? Many of the fat guys (Oliver Miller, Boris Diaw, etc.) are actually tremendously skilled athletes, they're just fat. Almost everyone pre-Wilt, heh.

David Thompson for most athletic. McDyess before the knee injuries was pretty amazing. Spud Webb, I guess. Westbrook? I agree not Kobe. Jordan before Kobe for sure (not that anyone necessarily disputed that.) I think it's incredibly impressive that Jordan hit .200 at AA ball. Heh, funny that I can't possibly see putting the other baseball crossovers (Danny Ainge, Ryan Minor, Mark Hendrickson, Dave DeBusschere, Chuck Connors... not that I saw those last two guys) on there.

for today's dose of terrible sixers blogging, we see this:

You want to know what it says about you if you’re militantly pro-Oxford comma? Well, first and foremost, that you take the time to develop strong opinions about arbitrary style guidelines, which…I don’t even. But second, that you base those strong opinions on songs by twee Ivy League faux-indie bands whose membership consists of guys who look, sound and write (NOTICE THE LACK OF THE UNNECESSARY SERIAL COMMA) like the kids that everyone pretended to be friends with in middle school because their parents bought them cool stuff in lieu of actually loving them. And failing that, the word “Oxford.”

You kind of have to consider Kareem physically gifted, but in another way. I would probably put D12 on that list, too. There are also probably several guys who never amounted to much who belong on there (Desmond Mason, Darvin Ham, Harold Miner, even Nate Robinson).

I agree. I don't think "physically gifted" matters as much as people think. The NBA is lousy with physically gifted freaks. Who's more physically gifted than Gerald Green? (I mean, besides Lebron.) At the NBA level, it's not about the physical gifts, but emotional toughness, work ethic, basketball smarts, and smaller skills.

The Basketball Jones discussed least athletic players the other day, and it was refreshingly color-blind. Names mentioned included Andre Miller, Stephen Jackson, Pierce, Chuck Hayes, Z-Bo, Asik, Nick Collison, and Nash. (I certainly wouldn't consider prime Nash a candidate, but I guess maybe now.)

Nash is the obvious example. Not big, not fast, can't jump. Remarkable shooter, though, and even in a league where most perimeter players possess some level of ambidexterity, Nash's left hand sets him apart. Couple that with his court vision, and you get a special player.

As people have talked about, there are basketball skills and jock skills. Kobe was pretty jockish in his youth but not all that exceptional by NBA standards, but he has great basketball skills. Pierce may be more athletic than one would think, but his roundness/lack of muscle definition seems odd on a guy who has had such a great career and has been so good for so long. Pierce's huge lower body is an advantage in some ways. Magic Johnson was never a great run-and-jump guy but had phenomenal vision and basketball skills; same with Bird.

It is tricky. Cousy, for example, has massive hands for a guy his size and literally one-in-a-million peripheral vision according to stuff I have read. Jerry West has exceptionally long arms for a guy his height. Those things are gifts, but people usually mean raw run/jump/start/stop athleticism when they talk about "gifts."

Robinred: Meeks, of course, is one of the only bench moves by la that I praised - I didn't understand why brown buried him. I watched most of that first half by the way... Lawson consistently going under screens made me laugh.

I like athleticism talk, but I don't know what it means either. There's a guy like Haddadi with tons of size and strength - and some coordination, but zero quickness and stamina - he seems more like the mold here than, say, an uncoordinated guy who can run a little at the same height (um - thabeet?).
Asik shouldn't be up for discussion - unathletic guys can't do what he does covering the pnr.

Ronnie Brewer just hit his 15th 3 of the year. He needs to go 4 for 33 to match his career high .275 3Pt% from last year. He needs 7 3s to match his career high 3 point total.

Asik shouldn't be up for discussion - unathletic guys can't do what he does covering the pnr.

I agree, and as I recall, the other members of the Jones panel disagreed with the nomination.

The NBA version of Arvydas Sabonis would be another test case of what exactly counts here. Ideally, I would say that if "court vision" means awareness, ability to predict how a play will unfold, etc. in a sports sense, it shouldn't count, but if it literally means superior eyesight, then it should count. Similarly, "length" and hand size -- physical gifts that you can't do anything about -- should count. But since I don't know everyone's eyesight or body proportions, it's easier to base it on running, jumping, and general gracefulness. Ah well, it's all semantics...

Robinred: Meeks, of course, is one of the only bench moves by la that I praised - I didn't understand why brown buried him. I watched most of that first half by the way... Lawson consistently going under screens made me laugh.

I wasn't for the so-early firing, but the Meeks think was ridiculous. D'Antoni is trying to replicate that now with Jordan Hill though. Someone needs to look into whether Hill hit on D'Antoni's wife or something. That is some real bad blood right there. I do however like that Mike D has realized that Jamison has no business at the 3 anymore.

[867] That's the worst part of D'antoni as a coach. He has somewhat random feuds/issues with guys and will just not play them, many times without warning/explanation.

Not in his defense - nor to ignore history, but...: whenever Howard isn't at center, Gasol should be. When Gasol isn't at the four, you either play Jamison or Hill right? So, I can see someone getting squeezed here.

Not in his defense - nor to ignore history, but...: whenever Howard isn't at center, Gasol should be. When Gasol isn't at the four, you either play Jamison or Hill right? So, I can see someone getting squeezed here

The other day, after Jamison blew up against Denver, D'Antoni was asked about maybe benching Pau and starting Jamison. He said "way too soon" and then said "But we need to spread the floor."

My issue there is that while I think it is good to have a system/principles, you also need to be able to adapt. But MD doesn't seem to be--short rotation, shooters get first dibs on PT. Period. Part of the stuff with Pau is on Pau himself and his knees, but MD needs to try to get more out of him, and I think it would be wise to give Hill a little burn to cut Pau's minutes, not overexpose/wear out an ancient Jamison, and to keep Howard fresh, even though D'Antoni apparently dislikes Hill and Hill is not his type of player. Failing that, they might try moving Hill for a player of similar value and salary who fits what D'Antoni wants to do. No idea who that might be.

Kobe is playing 37 MPG right now, and Lakerpeople are concerned about that, but I am really not, since if Kobe wants to play less, he will go to D'Antoni and say, "Play me less."

There have been low-level rumors about the Lakers talking to Pietrus, who AFAIK is unsigned. Since D'Antoni seems to share DK's view of Devin Ebanks, if Pietrus is available, the Lakers should consider it.

So, I like the hire, but I do have some questions about D'Antoni early on.

There have been low-level rumors about the Lakers talking to Pietrus, who AFAIK is unsigned.

He signed with Toronto on Friday.

He signed with Toronto on Friday

Figures.

I really wish we had ejections as a classroom management option.

As a current NYC public school teacher, this made me laugh...for a long time. Thanks, Andrew.

He signed with Toronto on Friday.

And that night, MP had a chance to bury a former team, Phoenix, because he was left wiiiiiiide-open in the corner again and again...

Six points on 2-for-7 shooting.

I agree w playing hill more and pau less (to rest/save him). But, I can understand using a short rotation w this club as well...

Can Kobe be trusted to keep his minutes down, if need be? (Honest question) He seems like a guy who's destructively competitive, if you know what I mean. (Not that he hasn't made it work for him and not that he isn't really smart, basketball-wise.)

Hell, Rasheed once got ejected for looking at a ref. That's some legit ejection game right there.

The video used to be YouTube, but doesn't seem to be right now.

Hell, Rasheed once got ejected for looking at a ref. That's some legit ejection game right there.

the ref wouldn't happen to have been joey crawford, would it? because i seem to remember him ejecting tim duncan from a game for smiling when he was sitting on the bench.

Sheed ejected for looking at ref.

@ESPNChrisPalmer What Kobe is doing is literally unprecedented. Better record he'll be in the MVP drivers seat. Kobe Bryant on pace to be oldest player in NBA history to avg 26 pts, 5 rebs & 5 asts. Kobe needs 2378 points to pass MJ for 3rd on the all-time scoring list. That's 14 ppg over next 2 years. It's late but you guys know I take Kobe over MJ. Regardless of era, Kobe is simply a more skilled player. No disrespect at all to MJ. Kobe gave MJ 33. When he was 19. If Kobe matches MJ's 6 rings and passes every statistical achievement what's the argument? I respect MJ like the next guy but nostalgia doesn't count towards greatest ever. Kobe patterned his game after MJ. Smart move. Improved on greatness. Top 5 Greatest Ever: 1. MJ (for now) 2. Kobe 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. LeBron

Holy breathless overexuberance batman.

It appears that's a series of tweets, but it reads much better as one manic outburst. I am not familiar with Mr. Palmer's previous work, and the ESPN archive isn't working well since it appears there's an athlete named Chris Palmer that jams it up (even when clicking directly on Mr. Palmer's archive button in one of his articles). Obviously we're all on the same page here, so there's no need to rebut anything there. But does really he not realize, if he's going solely on the total point thing, that Kobe's already played over 100 more games than MJ and still needs to play another 100 at his career average to tie MJ, and what exactly that implies?

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I was sorry to read about Majerus.

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this is an annoying loss, but the sixers didn't play very well, they weren't coached very well, and they got the #### end of the stick from the refs in a few key spots.

Despite what either of us would like to think, they're pretty evenly matched average teams right now (Bulls have a better DRtg) that could very well look totally different by the end of the season if their best players come back healthy.

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i thought james johnson was a nice short term pickup for sacramento ... at this rate, he might not even last the season on the roster (after a nice preseason too where he won a starting spot)

He doesn't seem like a guy that should struggle with the mental and effort side of things, and yet he does at times. I obviously wasn't a fan of the Bulls picking him, but he showed enough spurts that I thought there might be something there. He always looks good playing against the Bulls since they gave him away.

asik has kept out of foul trouble and upped his boards (at the expense of blocks)

I haven't seen a ton of him, but he's really improved his conditioning to play that many minutes. It's disappointing (to me) it's happening in Houston though.

that Kobe's already played over 100 more games than MJ and still needs to play another 100 at his career average to tie MJ, and what exactly that implies?

Yeah, that's pretty impressive.

Jordan did have three years of college, though. And while I'm a big proponent of prospects skipping college, the first year or two those guys usually aren't dominant.

So Rip Hamilton actually tore his Plantar Fascia during Saturday's game (and came back in to play and hit the clinching FTs), which BTW, sounds oh so pailful. The timetable for his return is unknown, but Thibs likes not answering questions ("Could be one week, could be two, could be more"). So the Bulls are rumored to be after Mo Evans (KC Johnson tweeted about Marco Jaric, who was with them in camp). Either way, time to schedule the parade.

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Steve Blake has a torn ab muscle, needs surgery, and will be out 6-8 weeks. That also sounds painful.

Steve Blake Rip Hamilton

It's tough getting old, as Lakers fans are seeing.

Ups to Orlando for taking it to the Lakers and getting the job done. I am sure their fans enjoyed it and understandably so.

Have they given any kind of estimate yet WRT Rose's return?

Have they given any kind of estimate yet WRT Rose's return?

Nope. Not a peep. Last update was that he was cutting (and the update before that was that he wasn't cutting yet).

Sheed's argumentation style (ejected for 2 T's in 1st quarter for SCREAMING "Ball don't lie" at the ref who called him for his first T after the missed FT)

is that definitely what he said? I was at the game with my Dad yesterday and as soon as the FT missed I looked to Sheed to see what he would do, and I saw him bellow something. i would've pretty much bet every dollar in my pocket that's what he said; good to know he didn't let me down.


I also considered he may have had a rough night the night before and wasn't interested in sticking around for long

Rasheed Wallace was actually ejected for yelling "Ball Don't Lie" after a missed free throw...that was awarded because of a T on Rasheed.

I love having Sheed back in the NBA. He needs to coach when he's done playing.

I love having Sheed back in the NBA. He needs to coach when he's done playing.

Only if Iverson gets to be his assistant coach in charge of overseeing practice...

Article on playing against Ricky Rubio, by Flinder Boyd, a Dartmouth player and former England Nat. Apologies if this has been posted already.

Flinder Boyd

That would be quite Dickensian with a longer last name.

I love having Sheed back in the NBA. He needs to coach when he's done playing.

I was talking about this last night. I think he'd be best utilized as a sideline reporter for the TNT crew.

I don't think the Boyd bit had been. Anyway, I enjoyed it.

New thread is up.