or

B) He made it all up because he was embarrassed that he had fallen in love with a person he only interacted with online

If we're being asked to excuse this blatant a lie -- that he spoke to her every night for four months, as well as countless others of these kinds of lies -- then I don't particularly care whether he was in on the hoax or not. It's pretty much as bad.

He lied at every turn, or engaged in half-truths and deceptions. A "girlfriend." He "spoke" to her every night for four months. He spoke to "her family." He "visited" her. He "met" her. He commented about her AFTER he supposedly found out it was a hoax. Even assuming every inference in his favor, the whole thing was one big pile of half-truths and deceptions, if not flat out lies. I am not particularly interested in excusing that type of nonsense because he was embarrassed about... an online relationship? That is supposed to justify this behavior? He played everyone for fools.

I think it's equally ridiculous. Just the most plausible ridiculous explanation.

This is true. He's either a crass conniver or the world's biggest idiot. Neither looks particularly good on a resume. (Not that "I play defense like a dying nonexistent woman when the opponent is an actual football team" does, either, I suppose.)

Maybe this is all part of some Joaquin Phoenix-esque long-form performance art gag.

Here's an article referencing Five Bizarre Tales of Alleged Internet Dating Impostors. Weird stuff.

I am wondering if the "car crash" wasn't a premature attempt to end the hoax -- either because the perpetrators got nervous because Te'o was getting a much higher profile, and beginning to talk about his girlfriend to the press, because the woman who was playing Kekua got cold feet, or for some other reason. After all, according to the link above (can't find it now -- the reporter revisiting his interview notes), she was in a coma after the 'accident', and expected to die. Te'o actually got a call from her 'brother' saying that it was time to say his goodbyes. Perhaps they just wanted to cash out, if that was the scam: "Oh, sorry, your girlfriend died. Can you send $5000 to help with funeral expenses? Oh, and don't bother coming. She'd rather you played the football game."

If so, then the hoax was put back on immediately again -- she didn't 'die' from the accident. Maybe one of the hoaxers didn't want it to end and sent Te'o a message that she 'miraculously' pulled through, and the rest of the hoaxers had to go along or be found out. I don't know, it might not be any more bizarre than the other hypotheses.

so, what's the best outcome for te'o here?

i mean, if he's gay, yeah, i agree with the post from yesterday that he should just double down and milk that #### as far as it'd get him.


otherwise, i think he'd be best off to stay away from the camera and just try to connect with a single NFL team that has a pick in the mid-late first round and just make sure that he won't fall beyond that pick.

nothing good can come from him talking again, so until you get cash in your pocket, don't.

Just read the deadspin article. While he may have been duped at first, it seems at some point (my guess is before she "died"), it sure seems like he was in on it by the time her sisters account surfaces.
and the offical statements have the taint of "vaugely beliveable cover up".
Anyway, victimless non crime. Will keep him out of MLBs hall of fame, i guess.

I heard AJ McCarron tweeted that he ###### Miss Alabama on the second date, but some people are saying he didn't even get in her pants until the fifth.

If you want real family "dirt", McCarron's uncle did get busted a few months back as part of a pedo ring.

Look up the Brittney Wood case (McCarron's cousin by marriage) - the case has methheads galore, a missing girl, incest, a bunch of the family getting arrested, a suicide, family infighting. It's like every stereotype of rural Southerners come to life, but sadly does involve a still-missing, and presumably dead, young mother.

So the funeral was supposedly the same day as the game that he played in? "She" wanted him to go to the funeral. Well, what about a wake the day before? Some other memorial service? He couldn't attend that?

Also, I don't think the idea that he knows this Ronaiah Tuiasosopo really supports the idea that this was some random catfishing. But who knows.

Steagles, I again state my belief that he will have to talk at some point soon - and that he will.

"She" wanted him to go to the funeral.

No. "She" specifically told him to not go if it interfered with him playing a game. "It's what she wanted."

Yeah, I meant "She" didn't want him to go.

So what happened after "She" "died"? Did her family stop calling him? Her brother? Did he hear no more from them?

Steagles, I again state my belief that he will have to talk at some point soon - and that he will.

starve the beast. the university will be behind him because they don't want the bad press. his teammates will be behind him, at least unless he's some gaping jackass that we also haven't known about. the perpetrators (or co-conspirators) will keep quiet because the more that comes out the worse they look.

all that leaves you with what? the girl who talked to deadspin? the more she talks the more likely it'll be that holes appear in her story, so that's actually good for te'o.


the worst thing that could happen if te'o keeps his mouth shut is that his teammates start coming out and air their grievances in the press.

but if he comes out and explains himself and isn't convincing, then the school walks away from him, his teammates pull out all the dirty laundry from his time at notre dame, and anyone who's even remotely involved gets interviewed by bryant gumble on HBO.


if you're te'o, just cut your losses. take the hit, fall out of the top 10 or the top 20, but get into the NFL, make some money, and go forward from there.

Also, I don't think the idea that he knows this Ronaiah Tuiasosopo really supports the idea that this was some random catfishing

I don't think it was random.

I think it's one of two things:
- Ronaiah Tuiasosopo is a jock-sniffer who crafted a way to get close to the ND team (witness all the supportive texts sent by "Lennay" to other team members)
- Ronaiah Tuiasosopo had an unrequited crush on Te'o, and, in a perverse way, found a way for Te'o to fall in love with him. It's Cyrano on top of all of the other mythic elements involved

I feel pretty confident in the above, but who knows. It could also be that Te'o is gay (NTTAWWT) and this was all a cover story. Or he really is a bad guy who hyped this so a true defensive player could actually win the Heisman. I really doubt that, though. I've known some really trusting, highly religious, sheltered folks that I'm sure would be susceptible to this kind of thing.

I would guess further that Tuiasosopo decided at some point he wanted to end it, and, knowing how head-over-heels Te'o was, the only way out was to put Lennay in a coma. The only problem is, Te'o is Tebow-esque in his religiousness, and he wasn't the kind of guy who was going to leave his comatose "girlfriend." It only added to his devotion--standing by her was the right thing to do. So Tuiasosopo actually had to kill her off to actually end it.

The "resurrection" I do find hard to explain/understand, unless Tuaisosopo longed for his connection to Te'o and the team, and he thought he might be able to resuscitate it.

Ronaiah Tuiasosopo is a jock-sniffer who crafted a way to get close to the ND team (witness all the supportive texts sent by "Lennay" to other team members)
- Ronaiah Tuiasosopo had an unrequited crush on Te'o, and, in a perverse way, found a way for Te'o to fall in love with him. It's Cyrano on top of all of the other mythic elements involved

It seems likely that it's one of these, at least initially. Or maybe 2b - weird hopeful flirting with plausible denability. "What? you're a dude" with hope of "Hey, maybe that could work" but 99% chance of "Na Na, fooled' ya into thinking I was a girl"

But also could just be a goof on Te'o (since they knew each other), then Te'o finds out and just rolls with it ...

Or he really is a bad guy who hyped this so a true defensive player could actually win the Heisman.

Why does it have to be so sinister? He's 21 and a football player for cripes sake. Maybe it was just a prank that got out of hand. I mean "making up stuff to reporters" isn't a crime is it?

Yeah, but Te'o's a guy. I mean, honestly, what guy gets all misty over an Internet pen pal he's never so much as met, much less touched? Did they even Skype? I mean ... please.

What makes this story kind of interesting for me is that I have a history of online relationships. I grew up in Toronto and while I was in high school met a girl from Saskatchewan (about 1000 miles away) online. We talked for over a year or so and met twice in that period (she visited me for a week once, and I visited her for a week).

At that point I went to a univeristy in Saskatchewan pretty much exclusively because of the relationship. We subsequently broke up, though we still stay in touch. Things actually worked out really great for me in the long run. For loads of other reasons me going to school in Saskatchewan was far, far better for me than had I gone to school in Toronto (as I likely would have).

Anyway, this is all to say that I can identify a bit with some of the theories advanced about this guy. In that, at the time I definitely lied about certain aspects of the relationship to friends and family because it's kind of embarassing. Even to this day I feel kind of silly admitting it. But I've actually come across a surprising amount of people of my generation who have similar experiences.

All of which isn't to say I believe this guy at all...but the experience of meeting people online and associating with them almost exclusively online (I probably talked to this girl for almost a year before actually meeting here, and to be honest I had probably already decided to move out to her before meeting her in person) is more common than you might think.

You visited each other for a week, twice. Therein lies the material difference.

"Catfishing" seems to me like it would have to be a very time specific thing. Maybe 2000-2005 or sometime before voice chat became something that everyone has access to. I don't see how it goes on anymore. "I don't have a webcam"? They cost a few bucks.

Whatever the truth is of this story I'm thankful for it as it's hilarious and it makes Notre Dame look stupid. Can't ask for much more than that. It's interesting that this has turned into a bigger scandal for the school than the death of Declan Sullivan though, really, I guess it's understandable. This scandal is sexier and touches on a larger conversation about our culture.

It's interesting that this has turned into a bigger scandal for the school than the death of Declan Sullivan though, really, I guess it's understandable. This scandal is sexier and touches on a larger conversation about our culture.

And Lizzy Seeberg, the 19-year-old St. Mary's student who committed suicide after her (entirely plausible) allegation of sexual assault against an ND football player went uninvestigated by the authorities.

To the Notre Dame higher-ups, Manti Te'o is a victim worthy of tears and sympathy, and school-funded investigators, but Lizzy Seeberg and Declan Sullivan -- you know, actual students -- are fodder to be marginalized by The Machine.

Stay classy, ND.

To the Notre Dame higher-ups, Manti Te'o is a victim worthy of tears and sympathy, and school-funded investigators, but Lizzy Seeberg and Declan Sullivan -- you know, actual students -- are fodder to be marginalized by The Machine.

I'm curious, what should Notre Dame have done to not marginalize them?

Maybe 2000-2005 or sometime before voice chat became something that everyone has access to. I don't see how it goes on anymore. "I don't have a webcam"? They cost a few bucks.

That's where the story falls apart. The idea that you wouldn't move your online relationship with your "girlfriend" to at least video chats is preposterous on its face.

I'm curious, what should Notre Dame have done to not marginalize them?

Well, for starters, investigate her claims and kick the perps off the team. In addition to being sexually assaulted (probably), she was sent menacing texts in an effort to shut her up.

And then don't hide the records of what happened from her family, as ND did.

The disparate treatment afforded Manti Te'o and Lizzy Seeberg is an abject disgrace, on a number of levels.

So what happened after "She" "died"? Did her family stop calling him? Her brother? Did he hear no more from them?

Te'o was exchanging tweets with an account that was supposedly Lennay's sister for at least a while. The Deadspin article talks about it.

That's where the story falls apart. The idea that you wouldn't move your online relationship with your "girlfriend" to at least video chats is preposterous on its face.

I would never, ever...ever, EVER use a video chat, or skype or the like. For any reason whatsoever...ok, maybe if it was job-related. And I'm probably in a position where it would make sense for me to use (being on a different continent from family and many friends).

Though I think it's fair enough to say the vast majority of girlfriends who are actual people wouldn't let me get away with that.

EDIT: again, not saying I believe anything about this guy's story.

Some administrators were pressing for a unilateral public disclosure by the school, while others wanted to let Te'o himself make the stunning news public, the source said. Notre Dame officials were in contact with Te'o's agent, Tom Condon of Creative Artists Agency, and were told the Heisman Trophy runner-up planned to release his version of events Monday. The decision was made to wait and let Te'o and CAA control the message.

########.

Some of the posts on this thread make me think people haven't seen Catfish. You would be shocked at the amount of people carrying on online relationships for years, in 2012/13, who have never spoken to or seen (in live format) their "S/o"

EDIT: Funny enough, this week's episode was about a good looking, QB of the football team type who fell in love with some girl he'd never met who claimed to live in the same state and she managed to get away with not seeing him for perhaps over a year or so (IIRC). When Nev (showrunner) got them to meet, turned out she was a he.

I've seen Catfish the movie, but I was certain that the whole thing was fake.

edit: even if the perpetrator was real, the "victim" almost certainly suspected it and let it continue to shoot the film.

If there's a TV show about catfishing, one naturally wonders whether the catfishing is created for the TV show.

EDIT: Or what JJ said.

That's where the story falls apart. The idea that you wouldn't move your online relationship with your "girlfriend" to at least video chats is preposterous on its face.

I think you're selling people's ability to believe just about anything and behave extremely awkwardly short. Especially when it comes to relationships.

Some of the posts on this thread make me think people haven't seen Catfish. You would be shocked at the amount of people carrying on online relationships for years, in 2012/13, who have never spoken to or seen (in live format) their "S/o"

I'd actually recommend it to a few based on this thread. It could be quite surprising I'm thinking.

Obviously there's a lot fishy, and just plain unbelievable elements about Te'o's case. It seems pretty obvious he's lying about a great deal. But some of the elements aren't that far out of leftfield for the run of the mill online relationship these days.

EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me if "Catfish" was a hoax. But at a certain level it doesn't really matter.

Well, for starters, investigate her claims and kick the perps off the team. In addition to being sexually assaulted (probably), she was sent menacing texts in an effort to shut her up.

The investigation was turned over to the county prosecutor (as it should have been from the beginning). The 10 day delay in the investigation definitely looks bad.

With respect to kicking the accused out of the university, there is a complicating event in ND's past.

This is all from memory but back in the late 90's or ealy 00's a woman accused three ND players of raping her. ND immediately kicked them out and later the woman recanted her story a la Duke Lacrosse. In that situation the university had acted quickly but ended up just making a bad situation worse. When the prosecutor elected to not press charges because of the death of the victim and conflicting witness statements I can't be that critical of letting the player be.

Now, as to his non-football playing neanderthal friend who sent her those texts, I hope he was booted but we will never know because of federal laws.

Catfishing is real, but the movie Catfish is very transparently staged.

Te'o is clearly a raging liar, but as has been pointed out, his motivation for being a raging liar remains unclear.

As for me, I cannot believe how incredibly gullible and naive people are about online relationships. Until you see them on Skype or in person, THEY ARE A MAN.

The investigation was turned over to the county prosecutor (as it should have been from the beginning). The 10 day delay in the investigation definitely looks bad.

So Notre Dame itself feels compelled to do a thorough investigation of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real, but not to investigate in any way, shape, or form whether two of its football players sexually assaulted a woman and sent her threatening texts?

You can see how disproportionate and senseless that is, right?

As for me, I cannot believe how incredibly gullible and naive people are about online relationships. Until you see them on Skype or in person, THEY ARE A MAN.

Seriously. Didn't people learn anything from Bart Simpson catfishing Mrs. Crabapple? What I don't get is what's the appeal for the deceiver in these situations? It seems like a lot of trouble just to #### with someone like that. That's just way too much work for me. I prefer lazy practical jokes and mindfucks.

So Notre Dame itself feels compelled to do a thorough investigation of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real, but not to investigate in any way, shape, or form whether two of its football players sexually assaulted a woman and sent her threatening texts?

What are you talking about? How was it "not investigated in any way shape or form"?

Seriously. Didn't people learn anything from Bart Simpson catfishing Mrs. Crabapple? What I don't get is what's the appeal for the deceiver in these situations? It seems like a lot of trouble just to #### with someone like that. That's just way too much work for me. I prefer lazy practical jokes and mindfucks.

My wife showed me a TMZ article where Tuiasosopo auditioned for The Voice and told them some outlandish sob story about a car accident where a friend was rendered comatose. Apparently he just likes to do this stuff for fun and/or attention.

How was it "not investigated in any way shape or form"?

They turned it over to prosecutors, as you said. Notre Dame, the institution, did not investigate the sexual assault charge or the threatening texts. They did, however, investigate the entirely trivial, bordering on juvenile, issue of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real.

Moreover, the Athletic Director referred to the football player as a "victim" and shed tears for him. Did he ever do the same for Declan Sullivan or Lizzy Seeberg -- actual victims of the football program?

My wife showed me a TMZ article where Tuiasosopo auditioned for The Voice and told them some outlandish sob story about a car accident where a friend was rendered comatose. Apparently he just likes to do this stuff for fun and/or attention.

He is besmirching the legendary name of Tuiasosopo! Crissakes, that family is practically football royalty.

They turned it over to prosecutors, as you said. Notre Dame, the institution, did not investigate the sexual assault charge or the threatening texts. They did, however, investigate the entirely trivial, bordering on juvenile, issue of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real.

Bear, I basically agree with you about big time college athletics and Te'o. But, surely, you can see that criminal acts (like rape) must be investigated by law enforcement. The Te'o case doesn't appear to involve any crime - certainly no one is claiming to be the victim of a criminal act. Thus, it's a PR problem. One that centrally involves Notre Dame. Of course, they're going to investigate that.

Athletes, especially in D-1 football and men's basketball are a hybrid between employee and student. Their jerseys are sold, they make appearances representing the school. When one of them is in trouble with a non-criminal act, the university almost always involves itself in the situation. Now, whether these sports should be such big-time, professional programs (I don't think they should, either) doesn't matter in our universe: they are. There is a ton of money in involved and, so, no school is going to let a student go out and take care of this themselves.

If a student is accused of a crime, they would probably like to investigate on their own (and some, no doubt, do) but they risk more serious trouble and, so, those get referred to the authorities.

They turned it over to prosecutors, as you said. Notre Dame, the institution, did not investigate the sexual assault charge or the threatening texts. They did, however, investigate the entirely trivial, bordering on juvenile, issue of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real.

You keep stating things as if they are facts. I don't have a clue what your basis is. If it makes you feel better, the last article I looked up (which now I can't find) said the investigation was conducted jointly by the county and campus police.

EDIT: and the investigation included the sender of the text messages.

What I don't get is what's the appeal for the deceiver in these situations? It seems like a lot of trouble just to #### with someone like that. That's just way too much work for me. I prefer lazy practical jokes and mindfucks.

Attention whoring, escapism, general craziness.

Here's a personal example:

A while back a woman contacted me on Twitter. She was objectively gorgeous and apparently into all of the same weird a off beat things I was into. Naturally, I assumed she was a man/middle aged woman/homely nerdy girl hiding behind a gorgeous picture or two. Nevertheless, I frequently exchanged non-flirtatious messages with "her" because we DID have common interests and I enjoyed the conversation.

After a few weeks, she surprised me by asking if I had Skype, which I do. She asked if she could Skype me, and I agreed. Turns out...she really was drop-dead gorgeous. The pictures were not fake.

For quite a while after that initial Skype session we communicated daily by text, by phone calls, or by Skype. I kept my guard up, though, because she was on the other side of the country and I still didn't truly know her.

Needless to say, after a few months I found out she was married and had children. I was a fun, attentive, far-away man to provide spice to her otherwise dull and listless life. It was pure escapism for her.

Never have I been more appreciative of my skepticism.

He is besmirching the legendary name of Tuiasosopo!

It's unfair. He's dragging down Marques. Everyone knows Marques was the QB of the best season of Rick Neuheisel's career, and was a part of Bill Callahan's. He's played with Jerramy Stevens, Rob Johnson and Bill Romanowski, among others. Think about all the people now tainted by this.

My wife showed me a TMZ article where Tuiasosopo auditioned for The Voice and told them some outlandish sob story about a car accident where a friend was rendered comatose. Apparently he just likes to do this stuff for fun and/or attention.

He is besmirching the legendary name of Tuiasosopo! Crissakes, that family is practically football royalty.

I haven't read to closely - basically this thread is my source of info - but it sort of sounds like this guy has been doing this awhile and the Te'o case is simply one where he landed his first big hit. The mark both fell for the girl and didn't catch on. You need both: if the mark doesn't fall in love, it doesn't matter if he buys the act or not. And, obviously, if the guy doesn't buy the act, then the game is up anyway. Te'o may have both bought it and fallen for her and then become embarrassed by the online nature of the relationship. If he does figure out later that he's been duped, raise the embarrassment an order of magnitude.

Basically, Tuiasosopo sounds like a serial catfisher and Te'o sounds both gullible, not terribly bright and not strong enough to come clean as soon as it is apparent something is out of order. If this is a catfish, it's the 80 pound, 40 year old mythic beast that everyone has hooked but no one reeled in.

I hope ASmitty is (understandably) holding back on that story.

the investigation was conducted jointly by the county and campus police.

Those are almost always directed by the "real" cops. The campus cops are there to act as a go between.

It's unfair. He's dragging down Marques. Everyone knows Marques was the QB of the best season of Rick Neuheisel's career, and was a part of Bill Callahan's. He's played with Jerramy Stevens, Rob Johnson and Bill Romanowski, among others. Think about all the people now tainted by this.

How dare you not mention Manu. You are dead to me!

But, surely, you can see that criminal acts (like rape) must be investigated by law enforcement.

Of course -- as a law enforcement matter. There's nothing saying the athletic department or university can't take a parallel look to see if the players should still be on the team. That kind of thing happens all the time. Some schools have Student Disciplinary Councils and the like that look at such things.

When one of them is in trouble with a non-criminal act, the university almost always involves itself in the situation.

Only if it impacts on NCAA compliance issues. The university does not, and cannot, get involved with personal issues involving the athlete solely as civilian. What do you think all the hullaballoo about trying to get scholarships to involve pizza and walking around money are all about? If schools could pay an athlete's lawyers if the athlete got a, say, DWI, why would there be all the talk about getting pizza and walking around money to athletes?

How dare you not mention Manu. You are dead to me!

I was trying to keep him out of it!

So, did you nail her?

Bahahahaha! Nope, never met her. And actively tried to steer conversations to non-intimate topics, because I know what the internet is, and what it is not.

Back in the day, lonely housewives read romance novels. Now, they try to write their own online.