What's the o/u? Has anyone ever bet on the uberunder?

181.5, FWIW.

They've got two potential All-Star caliber players (Lowry, Valunciunus) and a few role players.

Whether or not Lowry deserves to be an All-Star, I would bet it's highly unlikely he ever will be one. PG play, as has been noted before, is at such a high right now that a guy like him always seems to fall under the radar. But he's still going to slot behind (in no particular order) Rondo, Irving, and Rose, will likely always trail at least in reputation by Williams, and is probably behind (at least on potential) Holliday. Hell, we hear more about Jennings than him nationally too. And that's just guys in the East. If Wall ever gets it together, add him to the list.

181.5, FWIW.

Ha. Somehow combined they average 186.7/game and give up 185.9/game, but I just assume those numbers are lies.

I agree, but only to a certain degree. I wasn't a fan of the hire — RR can attest to that

You are right and I am wrong so far. I backed the hire for two reasons. First, I thought MDA was the best guy to get the most out of the Nash/Howard synergy that everyone was dreaming about while still having Kobe cred from Italy and Team USA. Second, I didn't think Phil would maximize Nash, Jamison, and Meeks; and I thought Phil Part III would be pushing it. If they had hired Phil, Derek Fisher would probably be on the team again right now.

At the same time, I did say something like "I think D'Antoni will adapt", and so far, while I think he is sort of trying, he really can't make himself do it. I was watching video of him a few days after the hire, and in talking about Pau he said, "He is a great player and will always be a great player. (pause). "But we need to space the floor."


As to Howard leaving, I don't think anyone really wants to get into trying to read his mind again, but I still hold to my guns: I think Howard wants to play with Paul (the veto continues to reverberate) and I don't think that it is a coincidence that Paul and Howard's contracts are both up at the end of the year. If the Lakers don't have a big-time turnaround, and Paul and Howard can land somewhere together, I think Howard will want that to happen. Paul might simply just stay with the Clippers, of course. We'll see.

But Howard really does seem like the guy who just might do that, and immediately regret it.

Nothing would give me more pleasure.

(This is an honest question - not snark or anything)

Isn't it a little early to be bagging on MDA? Taking over a team with perenial sky high expectations with what 40% new starters partway through the season (no camp) and plenty of injuries - is it really a surprise they are doing poorly right now? Sure it would be nice (well not really since I don't like the Lakers, but you know what I mean) if they went great from the start, but it seems early to begin the hot seat talk (which I know no one here is doing).

Agree with Moses. They've got two potential All-Star caliber players (Lowry, Valunciunus) and a few role players. Unfortunately, some of the guys have completely mailed it in, and some are just meh good. They'll make some trades, but I just don't know what they're going to get.


Okay. I think Davis isn't bad, and DeRozan is also okay.

I mean, I'm not saying that this team is great, but that seems like enough talent to be better than 4-18, no?

Isn't it a little early to be bagging on MDA? Taking over a team with perenial sky high expectations with what 40% new starters partway through the season (no camp) and plenty of injuries - is it really a surprise they are doing poorly right now? Sure it would be nice (well not really since I don't like the Lakers, but you know what I mean) if they went great from the start, but it seems early to begin the hot seat talk (which I know no one here is doing).

I agree. I have mostly stayed out of the tactical conversations about the Lakers because I think it is really early to be drawing conclusions. It is fair to comment on how specific guys are playing, but we should understand that it could all change very drastically.

I mean, I'm not saying that this team is great, but that seems like enough talent to be better than 4-18, no?

Well, yeah, but their true record is probably more like 7-15, which is also useless.

Everyone. Stop what you're doing. Derrick Rose was seen running in practice. That must mean he's going to play tonight, right?

he's still going to slot behind (in no particular order) Rondo, Irving, and Rose, will likely always trail at least in reputation by Williams, and is probably behind (at least on potential) Holliday. Hell, we hear more about Jennings than him nationally too. And that's just guys in the East. If Wall ever gets traded, add him to the list.

Corrected that for you.

To #204, I do think MDA can and will make adjustments, but he is waiting for his on-court persona to get healthy first. The old Phoenix system wasn't just guys running to spots; they PnR'd people to death in the halfcourt, and Nash is the master of the PnR. (I would really like to see Gasol run it from the high post, too.) Right now, the Lakers don't have a traffic cop out there, and you see guys all over the place around the arc, looking confused. More efficient offense means more set defensive sets, better for D12 and the wings.

A lot of sins would go away if the MDA/Nash combo gels like before. I believe that's what D'Antoni is waiting for before he starts really tinkering.

Isn't it a little early to be bagging on MDA

Sure, if your expectation was, "Nothing that happens on either side of the ball matters until Nash is there to run the system." MDA probably thought that Nash would be back after 1 or 2 games, but OTOH, every Laker fan with an IQ over 80 (all twelve of them--Hombre is in that group, but I'm not) knew that there would be fit issues with SSOL and the Lakers' personnel. MDA does not seem to me to have much of a plan to deal with that.

As I said in one of the other posts, the main issue is talent, so I would tend to blame the FO more than D'Antoni if I wanted to throw blame around. But I have not been impressed with MDA so far, with the caveat that he has handled Meeks and Jamison much better than Brown did.

On a cultural note, there is now an interesting dynamic in play, in that Nash, whom many Lakers fans never liked and whom a hardcore few still resent for the 2006 MVP, now more or less holds the organization in his hands. By not upgrading the backup 1 (maybe they tried but failed due to lack of assets, but I tend to think that they didn't) and hiring D'Antoni, Kupchak and Buss have in a sense put this whole grand plan on Nash.

Whether or not Lowry deserves to be an All-Star, I would bet it's highly unlikely he ever will be one.

I don't think he'll ever be close either. Especially since he's now on a terrible team, and the selectors make it almost mandatory that All-Stars come from winning teams.

But, there's a chance with his talent that he puts up a season that he'd deserve it. May have even been last year.

Okay. I think Davis isn't bad, and DeRozan is also okay.


No, they aren't bad. They also aren't elevating the team to the next contender level either. They're decent rotation players. Even if DeRozan is paid to be more than that.

One more note on Nash: The Lakers' turnover pct. is 15.1, second highest in the league to OKC, and a big reason why their defense stinks. Their FT% is the lowest in the league. Nash address both those issues, especially the turnover rate.

Kupchak and Buss have in a sense put this whole grand plan on Nash.

Yep.

If they had hired Phil, Derek Fisher would probably be on the team again right now.

I was thinking about this last night- would Fisher really be any worse than Chris Duhon right now? I mean, Chris Duhon is starting on an NBA team! He was totally washed up three years ago, if not more. It's odd but I don't hear many people mentioning this when talking about the Lakers problems. It always boils down to Kobe, Dwight, or MDA, with vague rumblings about the bench.

Everyone. Stop what you're doing. Derrick Rose was seen running in practice. That must mean he's going to play tonight, right?

Thibs is going to ease him in with 35-40 minutes tonight.

not more. It's odd but I don't hear many people mentioning this when talking about the Lakers problems.

You may mean, "in general", but Hombre and I both talked about it on the previous page. Hombre mentioned Duhon by name.

Nash address both those issues, especially the turnover rate.

Nash will help quite a bit, if he can play. And if nothing else, he will make the team more fun to watch.

Nash address both those issues, especially the turnover rate.

About to leave the office, but IIRC from last season's Linsanity discussions, Nash is a high TO PG isn't he?

The seasons that Nash and Grant Hill are having are a whole new reason to drool over the Phoenix training staff. Seriously, how?

Nash address both those issues, especially the turnover rate.

About to leave the office, but IIRC from last season's Linsanity discussions, Nash is a high TO PG isn't he?

Yes.

Chris Duhon TOV% 2012-13: 22.3 (highest on the Lakers for min 25 MP this year)
Steve Nash, last three full seasons: 21.4, 22.4, 27.1

So, while he'll certainly help offensively, probably not so much with the turnover issue.

About to leave the office, but IIRC from last season's Linsanity discussions, Nash is a high TO PG isn't he?

Relative to his usage and time he spends with the ball in his hands, not especially. Even if he does turn it over, if he is making plays instead of Kobe or the other Laker PGs, it will be a net positive in TOs.

Espn is featuring a "they've still got it" night with KG's celts against Dallas then Duncan against Utah. Kobe deserves a ton of credit for staying at this high level, but those two have been pretty incredible themselves as they run their defenses at advanced ages.

The Mavs-Cs game is a real barnburner.

Dallas closing in on 30 turnovers.

And Rondo has played 53 minutes. Looks like he's going to finish just short of the triple double.

lowry also "suffers" from being average or better at everything*, while lacking a standout skill.

* does not include health

The seasons that Nash and Grant Hill are having are a whole new reason to drool over the Phoenix training staff. Seriously, how?

Before the season began, I gave the over/under at combined games played by Nash and Hill at 105.

MO WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

A few weeks ago I decided I wanted to buy tickets to a game this week, and it was a tough decision between the Spurs tonight or the Grizz on Saturday. I went with the Grizz cuz they're more entertaining to watch IMO and I've never seen them in person before (plus SA generally owns the Jazz). I'm still very much looking forward to that game, but it damn well better be epic to top this one.

I love so much that on John Stockton day the Jazz win on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by their PG against a Texas team.

I love so much that on John Stockton day the Jazz win on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by their PG against a Texas team.

Agreed. That was perfect.

@KCJHoop
Noah admitted he was egging the crowd on because he felt they disrespected him when they cheered his injury during last season's playoffs.

@KCJHoop
Noah on egging on 76ers crowd, which cheered his injury last year: "I’m going to do it for the rest of my career every time I come here."

At least he's our heel, I guess. In 44(!) min, he had a 21pt (7/10fg 7/7ft), 7reb, 5ast, 3blk, 1stl, 2to night. He got to hit a jumper to pretty much end it, and then got the some more FTs to ice it. Only takeaway I have from the game though is that Marquis Teague is starting to look like an NBA backup capable player. Hinrich was a late scratch (during warmups*), so there was no way NateRob was gonna play all 48. Teague played 20 mins and didn't look lost, so that's good. He actually got to close out the game too.

*I wasn't happy about the Hinrich signing, especially since it was mostly to please the average fan. But even I don't think it was going to go this poorly. 6.7PPG on 36% shooting (but 38% from 3). He looks cooked. Plus all the nagging injuries.

so, this is definitely a cheap time for me to bring this up, and i am absolutely not gloating over this at the moment, but i at least seem to have been right about iguodala:

maybe it's not quite 50/50 whether wright plays better than iguoadla this year, but if we judge them by various categories:

PER, TS%, O-rating, D-rating, TRB%, AST%, BLK%, STL%, MPG, and PPG.

i'd say TS%, TRB%, and BLK% are in the bag for wright.
i'd say that AST% and MPG are in the bag for iguodala.
but the rest, PER, O-rating, D-rating, STL%, and PPG could go either way.

wright: 6 (PER, TRB%, STL%, BLK%, O-rating, D-rating)
iguodala: 4 (TS%, AST%, MPG, PPG)

I wasn't happy about the Hinrich signing, especially since it was mostly to please the average fan.

My father-in-law and I talked about this over Thanksgiving (he's about the most reactionist fan ever). He loved the Hinrich pick up. Loves his D and shooting. The following discussion about his shooting was about how you'd expect.

I love so much that on John Stockton day the Jazz win on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by their PG against a Texas team.

That ending was tremendous. I find the Spurs to be very fun to watch because they do so many interesting things offensively with their spacing and their creativity. To add to that a very fun game where the crowd was outstanding and the home team struggled back to pull out a really tough win makes it about as fun of a regular season game as you can have.

The following discussion about his shooting was about how you'd expect.

Am I being too unfavorable in thinking that a significant portion of the argument is "He's white! He's from Kansas! He plays the right way!"? 50%? 75%? 120%?

wright: 6 (PER, TRB%, STL%, BLK%, O-rating, D-rating)
iguodala: 4 (TS%, AST%, MPG, PPG)

12.9 PER, 0.7 WS to 12.4 PER, 0.5 WS. Sounds like there are no winners here.

Simple rating: Iguodala: 0.0, Wright -6.2

Wright has a son named Devin Queintin Dwyane Wade Wright.

Lowe explains why the Lakers suck with video. Good read; says a lot of stuff covered yesterday.

From TFA in [238]:

Bryant has been monstrously efficient on offense, but his defense has slipped horribly.

I like to think of this as a conscious amazing job of perception management by Kobe. "Man, Kobe's better than ever in this only easily visible area...the rest of these guys must really really stink."

I like to think of this as a conscious amazing job of perception management by Kobe. "Man, Kobe's better than ever in this only easily visible area...the rest of these guys must really really stink."

I thought about that last night while I was watching Garnett dominate the game defensively without notable offensive numbers. I looked into the numbers a bit more, and the fact is that it simply isn't true; Kobe is playing as well offensively as he ever has. His ORTG is the highest of his career, as are his TS% and eFG%. His DRTG moved slowly in the wrong direction for many years, but it is steady from the last couple this year. I don't think anyone expects him to keep this up for 82 games, but through the first 22 he is just going insane offensively.

I want more articles talking about the ridiculous minutes Noah and Deng are playing. This is a start.

@ESPNNBA:
It's true: John Hollinger is leaving ESPN for the Memphis Grizzlies. http://es.pn/UWwGZk

It's true: John Hollinger is leaving ESPN for the Memphis Grizzlies. http://es.pn/UWwGZk


ESPN's NBA stock of writers is really down. Stein only writes once or twice a week and seems more interested in soccer, and Hollinger and Bucher left. I guess they still have Broussard, and maybe Simmons and Lowe are considered ESPN. And there's Abbott. Hollinger was about the only writer they had that I read consistently, though.

With this and them pretty much cancelling the NBA Today podcast, I don't even think I'll bother going to them for NBA anymore.

Glad I ditched Insider.

Hollinger deserves a lot of credit for getting the ball rolling with mainstreaming stat analysis, and he writes well. But I think that Pelton, Lowe and/or some other guys I have not heard of can replace what he does at ESPN.

Well, that is interesting.

He is going to be "Vice President of Basketball Operations", which could mean anything, but AFAIK his background is journalism, not management of a business/people etc, (he was an editor at SI) so obvously we would assume it is an analytical gig.

I remember regularly working late back in '98 or '99 so that I could surreptitiously read or print stuff from Hollinger's alleyoop site - I didn't know people were still doing work like that.
In any case, this is a huge loss for ESPN (one of the few meaningful perks of Insider, imo) and for the stat-oriented hoops community at large.

The Knicks pour it on in the first quarter, 41 points against the Lakers. Melo had 22 by himself. The Lakers shot well early, and then just got ran into the ground. The defense was horrific. It's one thing to say Melo was hot -- he was white hot -- but the defense was beyond embarrassing. No effort at all.

The Lakers seem intent on hitting every single branch on their way to the bottom.

The Knicks seemingly have not missed a shot tonight.

Okay, so the Lakers, after tonight will be 9-14. Last year, the 8th playoff spot in the West was 36-30, which projects out to 44-38. To win 44 games, the Lakers would have to go 35-24 the rest of the way, a 59% winning percentage. They have to play at a 54% clip, 32-27 the rest of the way, just to reach .500 for the season.

At this point, it's reasonable to assume the Lakers may not make the playoffs at all.