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3B in a weekly head-to-head points league: Sandoval, Prado, Headley, or A. Ramirez?
so strikeout rate, walk rate, etc? they don't matter as rates
ok, home run rate? really?
is that a skill for adam?
oh wait. from 2009-2013 his home run rate fluctuated from .56 to .66
this season it is .25
gee, which is real?
Homerun rates, innings pitched per start matter just as much if not more. Wainwright wins there.
and by the way, wainwright leads the nl in how many categories that folks can recognize?
nothing ridiculous at all
Wainwright leads the NL in WPA. (HA! I know cfb hates that stat.)
Pirates have hit back to back HR's in the 8th in Colorado, 7-5 Pittsburgh. Rex Brothers sure took a step back this year.
and yes, i have said by rate kershaw is better. hence my use of peak vs career as a simple analogy
If you think FIP is so useless, I don't really get why you wouldn't just go with W/L. If you're going to argue that dominance in the key things under a pitcher's control don't matter except insofar as they relate to run-prevention, why wouldn't you also say that run-prevention doesn't matter except insofar as it relates to winning?
Further note: bWAR, which focuses only on RA and expected RA puts Kershaw ahead. Even by the stat most likely to favor your horse, he's still behind.
in today's game it's pretty astounding that the cards have been this successful with such minimal power. if you think in terms of 60's style baseball a team needs homers because the hits are few and far between
And my point is that he is slightly better, not massively better, this is not Pedro 2000 vs the field. This is Carpenter vs Lincecum in 2009.
Kershaw's rates are just boggling.
Why use W/L? A pitchers job is to prevent runs scoring, regardless of all the talk by the talking heads of knowing how to pitch to the score. You help the team the most by not allowing runs or allowing runs that can reasonably win a game. If your team happens to be a pretty good offense, then you don't have to be as good, but ultimately when looking at the big picture, you want the guy who does the best job of keeping the opposition to a low score.
As to bWar, or any other version of war... it's not accurate to the decimal place. Roughly speaking after todays game you are looking at a difference of 4.9 vs 4.6.
And CFB, lest you feel persecuted here, remember that we all love Wainwright. The guy's awesome. And my fantasy team wouldn't stand a chance without him.
A pitcher's job is to get guys out. Counting on your defense is one way of doing that, but it's not nearly as good a version as striking guys out yourself. At the things a pitcher can control, Kershaw has been better. A lot better. A lot a lot better. In terms of his rate stats, he really is pitching like Pedro in 2000. That makes it very impressive indeed that Wainwright is able to hang as close to him as he currently is
and as a follow up i figured the preponderance of everything made it pretty straightforward. your claim is that yes, kershaw does all those things better but wainwright is actually better. only there is nothing to show that other than an edge in innings.
not working to be rude but have you followed the voting patterns?
kershaw was awesome when he pitched thru july
Really? I'm not seeing it.... again.... Kershaw 1.76 era in a pitchers park over 112 innings versus Wainwright 1.92 era over 149 ip.... I think they have both been pretty awesome.
Basically your entire argument is "fip"
have fun with that. I'm sick of people thinking that actual results is being trumped by a theory.
Serious question: do you think it makes ANY difference whether a guy has a 6.5-1 K/BB ratio or a 0.5-1 ratio? If the second guy has given up 5 fewer runs in the exact same number of innings? You'd really say the second guy was the better pitcher? Really?
I would think the other guy is having the better year.
Fip, does not account for 1. park factors(note: park factors in regards to fip isn't about runs allowed, but about strikeout, walk rate and homerun rate.) 2. those park factors you listed don't match up with bb-ref which has Dodgers stadium as the slightly better stadium. 3. Fip doesn't account for known pitchers skills which include ability to hit infield popups, ground ball fly ball rates etc.
In your mind, does it matter if the results are boosted by playing in front of a stronger defense?
Also, I think there are two different matters being argued here. One is whether Kershaw or Wainwright has had the better season so far; the other is who should be expected to win the Cy Young at season's end.
Okay, well it's probably better that we not talk anymore about this then, because that is just absurd
Projecting forward, I fully expect both pitchers to end up with between 2.2 and 2.4 era.... Kershaw is pitching over his head, but as the best pitcher in baseball has room to degrade and still be great, while Wainwright is getting a little lucky on results, and you fully expect a return to normalcy.
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