well, that mug shot is just so small i can't make out anything.

Just imagine a puffy-faced Dax Shephard.

It exists in many cities: a car comes with two guys. One drives your car and they drive away after dropping you off.

sounds like a pretty sweet gig--taking millionaires' cars for a joyride.

If you are going to have beer-in-mouth drinking, then you pay the consequences.

Awesome.

In Pittsburgh on a weekend night you wait a couple hours after calling a taxi company before one arrives. There are TWO neighborhoods where cabs are actually circulating. I spent almost ten years there, only owned a car for three of those years, and I took a cab a total of four times. And that's PITTSBURGH. Good luck in Defiance, Ohio.

However, Helton has millions of dollars and was drunk driving on a Wednesday. Therefore he has no excuse.

Is BAC perfect? Of course not, but it is easily the best and fairest system we have readily available. It's far easier than the government having to prove "impairment."

FTFY

Is BAC perfect? Of course not, but it is easily the best and fairest system we have readily available. It's far easier than the government having to prove "impairment."

FTFY

Bull. We know how that system would work. It would be your word against the arresting officer, and you would lose. Every time. BAC tests are your best friend.

That aside, there are plenty of studies that show people who have been drinking believe across the board that they are less impaired than they actually are. So forgive me if cries of "I was fine to drive. Really. I can handle 1.2 BAC! It's just other people that can't handle that!" ring rather hollow.

Obligatory:
a) Detectives believe alcohol was involved.
b) He should have his Gold Gloves taken away.

sounds like a pretty sweet gig--taking millionaires' cars for a joyride.

Top Gear actually did a segment where James and Richard did this: they picked out fold-able mopeds or whatever and worked for one of those services, then talked about the cars they were driving.

Homer: "I'm in NO condition to drive! Wait, I can't trust my judgment - I'm drunk!" (drives off)

If you are going to have beer-in-mouth drinking, then you pay the consequences.

I lol'd. Well done sir.

Is BAC perfect? Of course not, but it is easily the best and fairest system we have readily available. It's far better than relying on some subjective test performed by a policeman. Or some objective reaction test, which could easily be influenced by nerves, or adrenaline. And it's infinitely better than just letting drunk drivers roam the streets with no consequences.

Why is BAC a better test than a different objective test? BAC is easily influenced as well.

BAC is a BAD proxy. There should be reaction tests given upon licensing against a required baseline. At 30 mph, you have to react this quick. At 45, that quick, At 55 this quick, at 65 bisquik.

I once dated a woman who was a very good field hockey and soccer goalie in college. She had astonishing reflexes. At the State Fair we did a DUI simulator in which you watched a video screen and had to mash a break pedal when a kid rolled out on a bicycle. The simulator added a delay to simulate various levels of drunkenness. I killed the kid when I was still under the limit, but my GF got up to the max (.12, I think) without hitting the kid. The cop running the thing said that was the first time he'd ever seen that done. Point is that she could probably have gotten herself to the point where she was drunkenly stumbling around and semi-incoherent and clearly unable to drive and still have reflexes as good as an average person's. There's a lot more to driving than just reflexes.

However, Helton has millions of dollars and was drunk driving on a Wednesday. Therefore he has no excuse.

Yeah. He also doesn't have the "need to get to work tomorrow morning" thing.

The simulator added a delay to simulate various levels of drunkenness. I killed the kid when I was still under the limit, but my GF got up to the max (.12, I think) without hitting the kid. The cop running the thing said that was the first time he'd ever seen that done. Point is that she could probably have gotten herself to the point where she was drunkenly stumbling around and semi-incoherent and clearly unable to drive and still have reflexes as good as an average person's. There's a lot more to driving than just reflexes.

Let's try to think outside the box a little. Let's construct a test that *would be* reflective of driving. BAC isn't a good one. I mean the range at which people don't function well behind the wheel can be 0.04 to 0.14. And we put everyone at 0.08? That makes no sense.

Let's measure what we are wanting to measure. And yes, thre are people with BACs over 0.08 that are better drivers than plenty of people on the road today - like really old people (not all of them, but a bunch of them).

And women.

Let's try to think outside the box a little. Let's construct a test that *would be* reflective of driving.

It sounds like you have some suggestions, so please continue.

Why is BAC a better test than a different objective test?

Go ahead. Name one. There is no other objective test.

Great picture - drunk, fat and wearing a toupee.

It sounds like you have some suggestions, so please continue.

Well, I suggested reaction times. In the world of ipads, we can easily have a visual recognition and reaction time test that is just as indicative of driving a car as BAC. Fortunately you guys can add the link that shows the studies on driving a car baseline vs BAC.

Go ahead. Name one. There is no other objective test.

No, there may not be one now, but a decade ago, if I had said "lets have better cellphones than the Nokia flip phone" you would have said "Go ahead. Name One. *There isn't a better phone*".

From TMZ:

Colorado Rockies superstar Todd Helton -- who once signed a $141.5 MILLION contract -- was arrested for DUI while trying to drunkenly buy LOTTERY TICKETS ... this according to cops.

...When cops arrived to the scene, police say they saw Helton stumbling out of the gas station -- stinking of booze -- and clutching lottery tickets in his hand.

Also, I just learned from b-r that his nickname is... The Toddfather? Really?

In the world of ipads, we can easily have a visual recognition and reaction time test that is just as indicative of driving a car as BAC. Fortunately you guys can add the link that shows the studies on driving a car baseline vs BAC.

Would you really be happier if you got a DUI for screwing up an ipad game when you had a low BAC?

well, that mug shot is just so small i can't make out anything.

Here's another version.

does everybody have their subtlety detectors turned off? when i clicked the link i was practically looking up his nostril.

Well, I suggested reaction times. In the world of ipads, we can easily have a visual recognition and reaction time test that is just as indicative of driving a car as BAC.

Subject to huge random variation. The fact that being asked under a situation that is by default stressful, is basically going to mean all you are going to be measuring is how good people are at dealing with stress, and playing video games. In no way is that going to lead to an accurate measure of impairment.

No, there may not be one now, but a decade ago, if I had said "lets have better cellphones than the Nokia flip phone" you would have said "Go ahead. Name One. *There isn't a better phone*".

Well, then off you go to the future, and bring us back a better test.

Also, I just learned from b-r that his nickname is... The Toddfather? Really?

He probably gave himself that nickname while drunk.

Would you really be happier if you got a DUI for screwing up an ipad game when you had a low BAC?

If you think those birds were angry...

Also, I just learned from b-r that his nickname is... The Toddfather? Really?

Yeah, they did a commercial campaign a couple of years ago that played on it (or maybe created it), where he played the sage Godfather-on-his-daughter's-wedding-day character, complete with music as I recall.

Also, Deadspin's making a big deal out of the "drunken drive to get... LOTTERY TICKETS????" thing, but the version of the police report I read on the Denver Post said he had lottery tickets AND CHEWING TOBACCO in his hand, which seems to have been edited out of the version on TMZ. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense as a motivator to get out and drive somewhere at 2 am than lottery tickets.

Also, I just learned from b-r that his nickname is... The Toddfather? Really?

You can't trust nicknames on b-r especially for modern players. It's like they just accept any name emailed to them by some guy who likes making up dumb nicknames. According to b-r, one of Sosa's nicknames is "Say it ain't Sosa" which I've never heard him called and is a clear reference to his supposed PED use. They claim Mark Grace had the nickname "Amazing". Jason Heyward is the "J-Hey Kid" which I recall is a dumb nickname somebody on this very board made up for him.

I mean I wouldn't be surprised that nobody ever really called Mickey Mantle the Commerce Comet but, y'know, that one was handed down to us so we have an excuse. But Derek Jeter as Mr. November? Really?

It would be your word against the arresting officer, and you would lose. Every time. BAC tests are your best friend.

Not in North Carolina, they aren't. There are two (actually, three) ways you can be convicted of DWI here:

1. Per se (.08 or greater)
2. Appreciable impairment (officer's testimony, based on people foolishly failing to exercise their right to remain silent, and voluntarily performing Field Sobriety Tests that are set up to make people fail)
3. Having any amount of a Schedule I or II substance in your blood (hardly ever used)

So, you can be convicted of DWI even if you blow a .07 or less, if the officer is convincing enough in his or her testimony as to your appreciable impairment of your mental and/or physical faculties due to an impairing substance: unsteady on feet, red and glassy eyes, strong odor of alcoholic beverage on breath, failed Horizontal Gaze Nytagmus test, failed Walk and Turn test, failed Finger to Nose test, failed Walk and Turn test, admitted consumption of alcohol, etc.

drunk, fat and wearing a toupee.

No way to go through life, son.

He does not appear to be in the best shape of his life.

3. Having any amount of a Schedule I or II substance in your blood (hardly ever used)

Seriously? So I could get busted for DWI in North Carolina for taking my ADD meds?

That's just dopey.

Subject to huge random variation. The fact that being asked under a situation that is by default stressful, is basically going to mean all you are going to be measuring is how good people are at dealing with stress, and playing video games. In no way is that going to lead to an accurate measure of impairment.

Exactly. I would not do well on such a test stone cold sober, and my father would fail every time.

No, there may not be one now, but a decade ago, if I had said "lets have better cellphones than the Nokia flip phone" you would have said "Go ahead. Name One. *There isn't a better phone*".

(A) I don't believe there was a Nokia flip phone (weren't all their phones the candybar style?), and (B) if it were the best phone at the time, wouldn't you go with it?

Sure, someday someone might invent a better objective test, but until such time, we're sort of stuck with it.

Go ahead. Name one. There is no other objective test.

Wrong again. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration claims, and I think there are scientific studies to back them up, that failing HGN (failing four or more clues) is 77% reliable for a .10. Combining failing HGN with WAT (two or more clues) is 80% reliable for a .10. Failing OLS (two or more clues) is 65% reliable for .10.

Of course, it's still the officer's testimony that you "failed," and these studies were tied to .10 instead of .08. But the intoxilyzers are operated by the officer, too, and have variability. They also fail to account for different body sizes, different absorption rates, and the like.

One difference: you can refuse the FSTs, and also refuse to talk to the officer (although most don't). In most states, however, you generally can't refuse the intoxilyzer, under the theory that you have impliedly consented to having your breath tested by getting behind the wheel on a street or highway of your state.

And don't even get me started on how the concept of "implied consent" ought to run afoul of the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments.

So, you can be convicted of DWI even if you blow a .07 or less, if the officer is convincing enough in his or her testimony as to your appreciable impairment of your mental and/or physical faculties due to an impairing substance: unsteady on feet, red and glassy eyes, strong odor of alcoholic beverage on breath, failed Horizontal Gaze Nytagmus test, failed Walk and Turn test, failed Finger to Nose test, failed Walk and Turn test, admitted consumption of alcohol, etc.

Right, that was my point basically. Imagine if they got rid of #1, and made #2 mandatory, rather than voluntary as it is now. It's ludicrous on it's face to believe that that would lead to a fairer system. If you are pulled over on suspicion of drunk driving, your only out is passing a BAC test, anything else, and you may as well just sign a confession. Hence a BAC test is your best friend.

Wrong again. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration claims, and I think there are scientific studies to back them up, that failing HGN (failing four or more clues) is 77% reliable for a .10. Combining failing HGN with WAT (two or more clues) is 80% reliable for a .10. Failing OLS (two or more clues) is 65% reliable for .10.

So you are saying 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 false positives or negatives? That's not compellingly accurate.

Seriously? So I could get busted for DWI in North Carolina for taking my ADD meds?

That's just dopey.

Oops. That was off the top of my head. Just double-checked N.C. Gen. Stat. § 20-138.1 (DWI). It's only Schedule I, not Schedule I and II, for which you can be convicted for having any amount in your blood. Schedule I (N.C. Gen. Stat. § 90-89) includes a whole bunch of stuff whose names I don't recognize, and some that I do: LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin, Methaqualone, Heroin. Schedule II (§ 90-90) includes opium, Codeine, Hydrocodone, Morphine, Oxycodone, Methadone, amphetamines, methamphetamines, and Pentobarbital.

So you are saying 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 false positives or negatives? That's not compellingly accurate.

How is the BAC accuracy? On a breathalyzer? <shudder>

If you are pulled over on suspicion of drunk driving, your only out is passing a BAC test

No. Remember, you are (theoretically, at least) innocent until proven guilty. If you knew enough to refuse the FSTs, didn't answer questions, and were allowed to refuse to blow into the Intoxilyzer, the State would have a fairly hard time of convicting you Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, especially if you weren't driving erratically. Say you were stopped for no seat belt, or no registration, or no tag, or were stopped at a traffic checkpoint (which I also consider unconstitutional under the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments).

"An analysis of breath gas, using a "breathalyzer" (which the police can do immediately, on the road) gives only an indirectly determined value for blood alcohol level (BAC). It's based on how much alcohol is in some portion of exhaled air, not how much alcohol is in the blood.
To calculate content of blood alcohol from that of exhaled air, the content of alcohol in the air is normally multiplied by the number 2,100. This number, known as a "partition coefficient" or "partition ratio," is used because the lung air exhaled by an "average" person usually has 1/2100th the amount of alcohol of an equal volume of blood.
Using this average figure amounts to little more than scientific guesswork. In fact, the value varies for the same person over time and depends on body temperature and even respiration rate. For these reasons, the calculated blood alcohol level (printed or displayed on a readout on the machine) may be wrong.
Alcohol-containing substances in the mouth can also produce falsely high readings, since the amount of alcohol vapor they give off is much greater than any amount exhaled from the lungs. This includes stomach fluid vomited or regurgitated up within 20 minutes of taking the test, some toothache medicines, mouthwashes, and breath fresheners. Even a burp just before or while blowing into the breathalyzer tube may cause a falsely high reading. For this reason, the person administering the test is supposed to watch the subject for at least 20 minutes prior to taking the test to make sure he or she doesn't burp, belch, regurgitate, vomit, or put anything into the mouth.
There's also the possibility of a malfunction in the breath-testing devices. To assure accuracy, the device must be frequently calibrated with air containing known amounts of alcohol. The police department's records should indicate how often the device has been calibrated, serviced, and used.
Finally, because breath gas analysis (the breathalyzer test) is often inaccurate, the driver may be asked to take the tests two, or even three, times to produce a consistent result. Failure to give the police all the breath samples they want will result in the driver's license being suspended."

...When cops arrived to the scene, police say they saw Helton stumbling out of the gas station -- stinking of booze -- and clutching lottery tickets in his hand.

Are you ####### serious? Helton has as much business buying lottery tickets as he does babysitting for extra money.

No. Remember, you are (theoretically, at least) innocent until proven guilty. If you knew enough to refuse the FSTs, didn't answer questions, and were allowed to refuse to blow into the Intoxilyzer, the State would have a fairly hard time of convicting you Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, especially if you weren't driving erratically. Say you were stopped for no seat belt, or no registration, or no tag, or were stopped at a traffic checkpoint (which I also consider unconstitutional under the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments).

Oh, they'll still arrest you, and you can spend at least one night in jail (try not to get arrested on a Friday night, OK?).
And your car could be towed, plus storage fees.
And if you refuse any blood test, you can lose your license for a year (and "No... well, OK, I guess" is a 'refusal,' if the cop doesn't like you that day).
And the state of Missouri (backed by the Obama DOJ) just argued in the Supreme Court that, if you refuse a breath test, cops should be allowed to haul you into the station or a local hospital, strap you down and draw your blood, no warrant needed. (if you're suspected of pot in your system, that's a urine test... and, yes, there are already police departments out there arguing that forced catheterization is juuuuust fine, no warrant necessary.)

All of that can happen even if they drop the charges the next day. As they say, "You can beat the rap - but you can't beat the ride."

You can't trust nicknames on b-r especially for modern players.

The Perfect Storm
The Federalist
The Claw
Fat Ichiro
Big Time Timmy Jim
The Beast
The Shark

Anyone who knows who all of these guys are is more knowledgeable than I was until up about two minutes ago.

Fat Ichiro is the Panda, I think. Sandoval.

. But Derek Jeter as Mr. November? Really?

I think this stems from one of the NY papers calling him this in a headline during the postseason of 2001, which was of course extended into November due to 9/11. I recall that Jeter got a big postseason hit on November 1st or something.

The Federalist

I did not guess this but it is kind of awesome...if anyone ever actually called him that. (don't know)

The Federalist being Jon Jay, I assume. I've heard him called that. I've heard Fat Ichiro for Sandoval, as well. I have no idea who the others are.

I think this stems from one of the NY papers calling him this in a headline during the postseason of 2001, which was of course extended into November due to 9/11. I recall that Jeter got a big postseason hit on November 1st or something.

Actually, a fan came prepared with a " Mr November" sign and held it up for the TV cameras after Jeter's game-winning HR in Game 4 of the 2001 World Series.

Game 4 was on Halloween, and it went past midnight, and Jeter hit the home run after the calendar had flipped.

"I was fine to drive. Really. I can handle 1.2 BAC! It's just other people that can't handle that!"

1.2 is a few gallons of vodka past dead.

I think this stems from one of the NY papers calling him this in a headline during the postseason of 2001

I know (couldn't remember the year) but has anybody called him that since then?

Big Time Timmy Jim

This is Lincecum I think. He was called this in a humorous commercial I think.

The Beast

I want to say this is Hafner -- just looked at his page the other day.

The Federalist

John Jay?

EDIT: Not Hafner but a player in the news about a month ago or so. Also Jimmie Foxx who actually deserved it.

EDIT2: And yet Joe DiMaggio is not Mr. Coffee

1.2 is a few gallons of vodka past dead.

Yet Madeleine Albright still didn't look good.

Yet Madeleine Albright still didn't look good.

They don't have enough vodka for that.