Reynolds didn't waste any time pleading his case. Went straight to the glove slam and magic words. Got tossed by the 2B ump who wasn't even involved in the call. Then later he comes back out of the dugout acting like maybe they were going to reverse the ejection too. Whatever you think the right call was, that was some pretty entertaining stuff right there.

Clearly out. I'd be mad too if I was Reynolds.

I’ve never in my life seen someone reverse a call.

Come on. I see it happen several times a year, and I'm just a fan watching games.

This was just the last straw for an Orioles team that lost a run in the first inning on a likely blown call by an out of position home plate ump, and had been on the receiving end of umpire Laz Diaz's raging incompetence the previous two games.

I can’t say how I really feel but it’s pretty obvious.

Given what he *did* say, this might be meme material.

I have to agree with Reynolds here, yes he's wrong about umpires reversing calls, but I have never seen or even heard of a major league umpire reversing this type of call. How in the heck is the home plate umpire going to have a better angle on that play than the first base umpire?


This wouldn't have happened with a quality replay system out there. (Now with an NFL style replay system, it would have had a 50% chance of getting the call right)

the umpires will have only themselves to blame for when machines are installed to handle additional calls. if the umpires really were accurate as they claim nobody would be pushing for this change as change is always worrisome

but the umpires have become increasingly lazy and arrogant and that is not a combination for success

they are inviting their own demise

Am I wrong that we had naive little stretch after the 1999 walk out through about 2008 or so where the umps seemed to improve greatly and now the last 3-4 years have reverted to form?

How in the heck is the home plate umpire going to have a better angle on that play than the first base umpire?

It's a play very similar to the Helton play, where the home plate ump is the one who would have easily been able to tell he was closer to second base than first. When the first baseman is lunging in the direction of the first base ump and obstructing his view of the matter.

It just happens that in this case the home plate ump was wrong. If you let two umpires convene, one is bound to be wrong given their usual accuracy and you can only hope the one that lucked into being right is more assertive about it.

jose

agree with assessment

Am I wrong that we had naive little stretch after the 1999 walk out through about 2008 or so where the umps seemed to improve greatly and now the last 3-4 years have reverted to form?

Certainly seems that way to me.

What I find so odd is that umps are so often reluctant to reverse obviously wrong calls, and then here the home plate ump has no problem reversing one that was very, very close and ultimately correct.

I don't blame Reynolds for venting here, but I'm not sure of the protocol - are these fine or suspension-worthy comments?

The whole thing was a slow-motion train wreck. After getting screwed by the bad call at home in the first, the Orioles somehow managed to be winning a game where the starting pitching matchup was Tommy Hunter vs Justin Verlander.

Then, this play happens.

Machado made a pretty good play to get to this ball and fire across (he gets rewarded with his first error after the call is reversed).

Reynolds makes a great play to lay out and catch the ball and keep his toe on the bag.

Reynolds slams his glove down after it is reversed and is immediately tossed by a third ump who wasn't even involved in the play. Reynolds has been the Os hottest hitter, and it's not like he was showing up the first base ump, who didn't even see the glove toss.

I dot think the umps cost the orioles this game, but they made in uphill battle to steal a win even tougher.

and it's not like he was showing up the first base ump, who didn't even see the glove toss.

That part of it doesn't matter. He could flip the bird to the ump's back, but he'd still be showing him up.

it's not like he was showing up the first base ump, who didn't even see the glove toss.

Come on, he was definitely showing up the first base and home plate umps. The fact that they had their backs turned at the time doesn't have anything to do with it. It's not like this is the first time a player or manager got tossed by an ump other than the one who made the call being argued.

Reynolds on umps: "They have nobody breathing down their throats."

Im going to hope that's a CPR reference.

That part of it doesn't matter. He could flip the bird to the ump's back, but he'd still be showing him up.

Kicking out a player fans paid to see for "showing up" an umpire fans would pay to never see is the height of absurdity.

Whatever you think about the NFL, at least they have control of their sport. You don't see refs tossing key players out of important games over perceived slights.

I won't pretend to know the rule, but Showalter came out to argue Reynolds ejection before even arguing the call. Throwing helmet or glove is an automatic fine but it's not an automatic ejection. It's obviously a fine line, though.

Throwing a glove down like that? You're gone, every time, unless you obviously are mad at yourself (i.e you just kicked a ball all over the place.)

As a very junior member of the umpiring fraternity...I'm sorry, no, they don't have to put up with being shown up like that. Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs. What happened to taking the breaks of the game, good and bad, fair and underserved, with just a little grace?

As a very junior member of the umpiring fraternity, and a Tigers fan...holy Moses I have no idea what the umps were thinking here on the call itself. Yes, the home plate ump might have had a better look, since he's looking up the line and ONLY looking at the foot, without paying attention to the rest of he play. But what is supposed to happen, if the umps get together (and that's up the U1, the first base ump, if it even happens) is that everyone else give him what they saw, and then he and only he decides if he wants to reverse his call. I have no idea what the PU could have seen that made him sure enough to engineer a reversal.

Kicking out a player fans paid to see for "showing up" an umpire fans would pay to never see is the height of absurdity.

Well, saying that in your opinion players shouldn't get tossed for showing up umps is different than saying that this player didn't show up this ump in this case.

I have no idea what the PU could have seen that made him sure enough to engineer a reversal.

Couldn't it be as simple as U1 tells PU that he's pretty sure the 1B held the bag but he was screened a little, and PU says he saw him off the bag and he wasn't screened? Wouldn't U1 feel like he should defer to the guy who wasn't screened? Like you said, the way it's supposed to work is that the guy who made the initial call decides. The other umps just say what they saw; they shouldn't be trying to engineer anything.

It's a play very similar to the Helton play, where the home plate ump is the one who would have easily been able to tell he was closer to second base than first. When the first baseman is lunging in the direction of the first base ump and obstructing his view of the matter.

I don't see it, the play required calling the foot off of the bag, the foot was on the outfield side of the bag, not the home plate side of the bag. There is absolutely no way in the world, that the home plate umpire could tell if the foot was off the bag, unless it was lifted in the air 6+ inches. The way that play works, the second base ump might have had an angle on it, but there is no way in heck the first base ump had a useful view of that particular play.

Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs.

Then don't show up the players, and more importantly don't go into it thinking of it as "just doing a job" and instead think about "doing a good job". If the umpires hadn't been doing such a piss poor performance of their job throughout the whole series, maybe it's possible the frustration level isn't so high among the players that they felt the only recourse was to "show up" the ump (mind you slamming a glove down is more about frustration than showing anyone up.)

To me, the whole concept of "showing up an ump" comes from the umpire ethos that it's all about them.

Sometimes players are genuinely surprised and angry and upset and they kick the dirt or raise their hands or yell or throw their helmet or hat or glove out of frustration or surprise or anger, and not because they are challenging the umpires' authority.

Like Mark said, that's the first time he remembers the umpires making the correct call and then convening and changing it to the wrong call. That was a pretty surprising outcome.

To be honest, Mark was probably going to earn that ejection anyways, it just bugs me that he was tossed so quickly by an umpire 30 feet away.

Whatever you think about the NFL, at least they have control of their sport. You don't see refs tossing key players out of important games over perceived slights.

You never see football players argue with refs for more than a second or two before a teammate pulls them away. The refs turn their backs and it's over. Baseball arguments are very different, much more prolonged.

You never see football players argue with refs for more than a second or two before a teammate pulls them away. The refs turn their backs and it's over. Baseball arguments are very different, much more prolonged.

Yeah, I've never understood that baseball accepts and almost encourages arguing with the umpires. The only other sport I can think of where it is acceptable behavior is tennis, but I think that's been toned way down since John McEnroe's heyday.

Whatever you think about the NFL, at least they have control of their sport. You don't see refs tossing key players out of important games over perceived slights.

You never see football players argue with refs for more than a second or two before a teammate pulls them away. The refs turn their backs and it's over. Baseball arguments are very different, much more prolonged.

Football (and basketball and hockey) have an intermediate punishment that really keeps this to a minimum (basketball less so, because the refs' initial recourse isn't terribly punitive). If a football player acted the way some baseball players do on a blown call, they'd get tagged with a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty (angering their teammates and coaches in the process).

Since baseball has no such penalty, the umpires must either endure the abuse or toss the offender (a penalty that, through the years, has not been viewed as a crime against the team*). That leads to umpires taking more #### than their counterparts in other sports, but probably also leads to them being more confrontational to begin with. The penalty flag (or box) serves as a nice deterrent to player/official confrontations.

If baseball had a way to punish the team if a player got confrontational, one that did not involve ejection, I think you'd see less arguing over calls.

* The only guy I can ever remember getting grief for getting himself tossed was Clemens against the A's in the 1990 ALCS.

Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs.

Do you live in Candyland?

Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs.

Do you live in Candyland?

Yes, that may have been the most naive thing I have ever read. I can’t say how I really feel but it’s pretty obvious.

I can’t say how I really feel but it’s pretty obvious.



Given what he *did* say, this might be meme material.

"He's a bad apple, a commie. A New York, Jewish, intellectual communist crack pot. I mean, I don't want to cast no aspersions."

Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs.

Do you live in Candyland?

Yes, that may have been the most naive thing I have ever read. I can’t say how I really feel but it’s pretty obvious.

In one respect it's true, outside of military maybe, how many other jobs are you expected to be yelled at for a minute for literally just doing your job? I mean, if you are on the crew of a Christian Bale movie, you should expect that type of atmosphere, but that is it.

Yes there are bad employers out there who might yell at a subordinate like this, but that is 1. an example of a bad employer 2. not comparable as the Ump is the position of authority, and is not a subordinate. This is akin to a judge being yelled at by the prosecuting attorney and not having the contempt of court option.

Customer service reps get abused pretty good.

edit...the best customer service reps at my company were sociopaths. They took their abuse with a smile, knowing the poor customer was getting screwed, and they would do nothing for them. Those reps were often asked to be managers, where they were officially enrolled in the sociopath's inner circle.

(I was in collections for a phone company, and the customers who would yell, in general, were the ones the company didn't mind losing that much.)

Customer service reps get abused pretty good.

Agreed, it's one reason I actively oppose concealed weapons law, working retail, I've seen huge guys get upset to the point that they are throwing things at service reps (who seemed to be mostly teenage girls or girls in their early 20's) that I can't imagine the anger and action these people would do if they had inadvertently ignored the sign on the door and came in with a concealed weapon. (one of the silliest things I've ever heard is people acting like if concealed weapons were more plentiful that people would obey the rules by which they got their weapons and not carry them in places where they are banned...as driving has shown, just getting a license doesn't mean you obey the rules of that license)

But that is also part of the job description, maybe not stated in the hiring process, but it's somewhat expected, and on top of that, again that is a different type of interaction. Customer/provider. I don't know of many jobs that have a similar dynamic as umpire/player, and in which it's ok for the lesser ranked person(in this case the player) is allowed to go off on the higher ranked official.

edit...the best customer service reps at my company were sociopaths. They took their abuse with a smile, knowing the poor customer was getting screwed, and they would do nothing for them. Those reps were often asked to be managers, where they were officially enrolled in the sociopath's inner circle.

(I was in collections for a phone company, and the customers who would yell, in general, were the ones the company didn't mind losing that much.)

I just quit my customer service job--today in fact-- (phone tech support/Android specialist) and it's funny how quickly the customer who is angry is going to get the least amount of service. I always loved to see the guys who thought that their solutions would happen faster by asking for a manager (our managers are 1. foreign 2. in another country 3. has a minimum of a 10 minute wait time for you to get through) and that means I can put you on hold, for 10 minutes while collecting a paycheck. Instead of just fixing the problem in the 2 minutes it would have taken if you gave me a chance.

The ability to not take any of the stuff personally is the best piece of advice. Drawback is that you also can't care about the company in any way, as the insults to your place of employment could force a fight back reaction if you did.

You should see how flight attendants get abused here in China. In the USA, while flight attendants still have a lot of challenges with unruly or rude passengers, since 9/11 they don't have to take nearly as much crap because they can get people who get to lippy arrested.

But in China, a lot of the passengers don't have a lot experience with flight. When there are delays, they RIP on the flight attendants like crazy. (It would make it easier if there were actually some announcements, but there seldom are). They have to tell people over and over to turn off their cell phone, put their seat back upright, don't walk in the aisle during takeoff and landing....basic stuff....and they get ALOT of pushback from passengers when doing so.

Anyway, imagine some of the worst behavior you have seen on a plane, ever....then multiply that by about 25 people....on EVERY FLIGHT. It's interesting to watch, thats for sure.

#25 is an excellent post.

tl;dr: Football has a 15-yard penalty for mouthing off. Baseball doesn't have any penalty short of ejection. So arguers can go farther before rebuke, and officials are quicker to resort to ejection.

Be a Red Lobster waitress in Fairview Heights (this is the second assault)

I imagine people in the service industry are laughing at the comment that Umpires are the only ones who have to put up with the crap for doing their jobs.

But that is also part of the job description, maybe not stated in the hiring process, but it's somewhat expected, and on top of that, again that is a different type of interaction. Customer/provider.

And dealing with player disapproval is part of the job description of an umpire, maybe not stated in the hiring process, but it's somewhat expected.

I don't know of many jobs that have a similar dynamic as umpire/player, and in which it's ok for the lesser ranked person(in this case the player) is allowed to go off on the higher ranked official.

Teachers for one.

Cops also get a lot of it.

I mean honestly, the list of jobs where you don't have to deal with the occasional tantrum is probably shorter than the one that does.

I mean honestly, the list of jobs where you don't have to deal with the occasional tantrum is probably shorter than the one that does.

I agree, but there is something a little different about the ump/player dynamic than what we see in those others. Most of us,* when we see someone going off on a customer service rep or waiter or teacher, say "Jeez, what an #######." I think the reaction to a player cursing out an ump, on the other hand, tends to be more mild bemusement.

* I hope.

#36, that's because we feel bad for the rep or waiter who can't do anything about it and works the mundane job. Umpires have a bit more glamour and a lot more authority to resolve the situation.

By the way...I don't read lips, but does anyone know what Reynolds shouted just after he slammed the glove ? Any possibility it could have been that and not the glove slam that got him booted ?

Customer service reps get abused pretty good.

I was on the phone with customer service from Comcast a few weeks ago, I thought it was odd how the lady thanked me 4 or 5 times throughout the call for basically acting like a normal person. It never crossed my mind that they expected to be yelled at.

It always amazes me how the simplest of courtesies and expressions of appreciation or praise can brighten someone else's day.

I find baseball players and managers and lifers unbelievably spoiled and coddled off and on the field. If it were up to me I'd give the umps more power to have everyone try and act less like even bigger babies than my pre-school nieces.

Let them deal with Klem and Connolly today and they and all of you and Michael Wilbon would still be crying. Human nature.

There's no question I would love to have an intermediate penalty in my bag, something the analogue of a yellow card.

In my little corner of the oil field we have some skilled labour, no available replacements, managment personally invested, and while you won't get a raise you can get definitely get a rise out of them with little repercussion.

Our truckers(towing), go through a lot of hassle helping the idiots who have defied logic, sobriety and physics in order to participate in 18 wheel bocce. Bets are quickly collected when an unruly acquaintance parks his truck upside down in the ditch. If he can get it towed on the first call he must be a pretty nice guy once you get to know him.

A friend worked as a prison guard in AK. Got along well with the inmates. If a guard showed an inmate up, there'd be a problem. If the guard was fair then they'd only have trouble with the out and out turds.


#31 I can't tell if you're being facetious or if the smaller, shiftier firearms South of the border are stealing their owner's oxygen by the light of the moon. From what I've read cc licensing just acts as mild self selection for police records. The people who get cc licenses end up being, roughly, the same ones who would penalize themselves a stroke in golf if no one was watching. In Canada, with practically no cc licensing(might be 12 issued in the whole country), many(up North, sss)still carry illegally and upon arrest(dui, possession, using the sidewalk for their skidsteer) end up subjecting the poor Mounties to fevered tales of carnivorous moose and dangerous foreigners with all their front teeth. Also, where would cc be banned but not blocked? I think all of our local courthouses and police stations have metal detectors, bars(?) do too, but that might be a local thing, schools? My account email is open if you have a standard form reply for foreigners.

Nobody else has to put up with the crap they do for doing their jobs.

Do you live in Candyland?

About a billion times this!

As a former Service Industry employee (Restaurant) and current Federal Government Employee (Dept of Treasury), I'd like to invite the umpires to swap roles with me ANY day. Seriously. I think I agree with what was said above about the umpire's own mentality playing a role in the whole "showing up the ump" bit....the game is not and never will be about you in any way, shape or form. Get over yourselves, please, for the sake of the game.

Customer service reps get abused pretty good.

I can certainly empathize. I worked for a year in customer service at a cell phone company, and had to put up with a lot. Honestly, though, it really doesn't take that long to develop a hard shell, especially since the average call would only last 5 minutes or so. I'd say at most 25% of the calls were from simply irate people; most of the others wanted to know how to navigate the website, wanted an explanation of the bill, etc.

Plus, frankly, it wasn't hard to simply say "no" to somebody who worked up a one month bill exceeding $20,000.

Most of my problems were with management, which was uncaring, inept, arbitrary and irrational (#30 is absolutely correct). The inane marketing campaigns and the forced online trainings, which were little more than rehashed advertisements, made it entirely unbearable. After all of this, I do not own a smartphone, and never will.

You should see how flight attendants get abused here in China.

Where in China are you? I'm living in Shenyang, and have yet to see this sort of behavior firsthand on a Chinese flight. I do know it exists (just a few weeks ago, 5 young women from Shenyang were arrested for starting a brawl on a flight), but I rarely see anything worse than people getting up and walking around when they shouldn't. And, for the record, I've flown to and from Beijing and Yanji within the past two weeks.

On the customer service topic, the absolute worst customer service on a consistent basis I've ever seen is at a grocery store across the street from our apartment. Both my wife (a native speaker of Chinese) and I have asked on multiple occasions for where basic goods are located, only to be answered by shoulder shrugs and grunts. We shop at a more expensive place simply to avoid this treatment (and the meat, which tends to be green).

Where in China are you? I'm living in Shenyang, and have yet to see this sort of behavior firsthand on a Chinese flight. I do know it exists (just a few weeks ago, 5 young women from Shenyang were arrested for starting a brawl on a flight), but I rarely see anything worse than people getting up and walking around when they shouldn't. And, for the record, I've flown to and from Beijing and Yanji within the past two weeks.

I'm living in Dongguan, south of Guangzhou. Fly in and out of Guangzhou and Shenzhen airports a lot. Mostly to Wenzhou and also Fuzhou and southern Fujian, Jin Jiang.

Guess it's more civilized up North. Like I said, I see this crap every flight I'm on. Consider yourself lucky.

[32] But in China, a lot of the passengers don't have a lot experience with flight. When there are delays, they RIP on the flight attendants like crazy. (It would make it easier if there were actually some announcements, but there seldom are). They have to tell people over and over to turn off their cell phone, put their seat back upright, don't walk in the aisle during takeoff and landing....basic stuff....and they get ALOT of pushback from passengers when doing so

It's good to know this is a universal issue. :)

I mean honestly, the list of jobs where you don't have to deal with the occasional tantrum is probably shorter than the one that does.

Yep. Add newspaper editor to the list, not surprisingly. Especially if "newspaper editor" is defined, as was the case for me, as "editor who worked nights after everybody else had gone home & had to talk to callers irate about perceived (& sometimes not just perceived, of course) screw-ups dayside people made."

Also, where would cc be banned but not blocked? I think all of our local courthouses and police stations have metal detectors, bars(?) do too, but that might be a local thing, schools?

University campuses (which won't have metal detectors). Libraries. Public parks. Grocery stores. Movie theaters.

Be a Red Lobster waitress in Fairview Heights (this is the second assault)

Leave it to cfb to defend those smug Red Lobster waitresses.