18 years and only one losing season and yet still the guys who bunt and waste outs playing for one run get called geniuses by half-wit experts.

It was a beautiful thing when Bill James first came on the scene because he would often compare and contrast Weaver and Gene Mauch as the two polar opposites of managerial strategy. Suffice it to say Mauch didn't come off very well in these comparisons. Mauch was such an egotist a reporter friend of mine told me of one time after an Angels' loss (where Gene had made some "questionable" decisions, shall we say?) when at the postgame press conference Mauch actually said "Nobody in this room is smart enough to analyze me".

When asked one time by Orioles outfielder Pat Kelly if he wanted to participate in team chapel and “walk with the lord,” Weaver famously replied: (“No thanks. I’d rather walk with the (bleeping) bases loaded.”

Actually, the way the story REALLY goes (which makes much more sense)is this - must have been about 1979, I guess, looking at Kelly's splits - Kelly had apparently killed some rallies with the bases loaded and it drove Earl nuts. So when Kelly told Earl he "wished he would take a walk with the Lord", Earl supposedly replied "and I wish YOU would take a f***ing walk with the bases loaded!"

RIP ya feisty curmudgeon. No idea whether he's heading to heaven or hell, but one of those places is about to experience more colorful language.

Heaven won't take him and Hell's afraid he'll take over.

I love Weaver in a lot of ways, and he was ahead of his time, managerially, but I agree with those who say those temper tantrums on the field were intolerable and should not have been tolerated. And it isn't just him. I hate that sort of "bush" behavior, whoever it is.

Weaver made my most favorite quote about baseball:

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the ####### plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."

Weaver made my most favorite quote about baseball:

my favorite quote was: "why don't you take the sacrifice bunt and shove it up someone's ass and leave it there"

If anyone has not read "Earl Weaver on Managing", I highly recommend it. My condolences to the Weaver family and friends.

Regards,
Tim

Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers? It is absolutely critical to how he managed his teams. Bill James once wrote about how Earl would agonize over spring training decisions, particularly on the 25th spot, because he platooned of course, and always wanted pinch-hitters and be able to turn half his lineup over and still have suitable defenders.

He was only able to do that, of course, because he could use a 9-man pitching staff. Jim Palmer is one of the HOFers who had a career-threatening injury early in his career, and Earl managed to get a ton of great seasons from guys who didn't otherwise have a success or health elsewhere.

Earl got max production out of so many guys; he really managed more the way an NBA coach does. When you think of the Orioles and Earl, you generally think of Palmer and the great pitching staffs, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Singleton, and making Cal a shortstop. But I think the Lowenstein/Roenicke platoon, and one-dimensional guys like Terry Crowley and Mark Belanger were the keys to Earl's success.

Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers? It is absolutely critical to how he managed his teams. Bill James once wrote about how Earl would agonize over spring training decisions, particularly on the 25th spot, because he platooned of course, and always wanted pinch-hitters and be able to turn half his lineup over and still have suitable defenders.

He was only able to do that, of course, because he could use a 9-man pitching staff. Jim Palmer is one of the HOFers who had a career-threatening injury early in his career, and Earl managed to get a ton of great seasons from guys who didn't otherwise have a success or health elsewhere.

Earl got max production out of so many guys; he really managed more the way an NBA coach does. When you think of the Orioles and Earl, you generally think of Palmer and the great pitching staffs, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Singleton, and making Cal a shortstop. But I think the Lowenstein/Roenicke platoon, and one-dimensional guys like Terry Crowley and Mark Belanger were the keys to Earl's success.

Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers?

Good pitchers, good defense, and he favored starters who threw strikes/put the ball in play where the D could help?

Earl and Stan are the John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of baseball.

So Stan's last words were, "Earl Weaver still survives"?

"This ain't football. We do this every day."

You mean, "This ain't no ####### football game. We do this every goddamned day."

baudib

the defense clearly. that's an obvious one.

earl always kept everyone in the bullpen busy. you were expected to be available to pitch. not pitch in the 7th. not get out lefties. pitch. and if you griped well he would find someone else because earl always believed he had options

he always seemed to have a kid pitcher with a fastball waiting in the wings. some guy who would get 10 or so starts and if he did ok he would get a role in the rotation and if he didn't he would get replaced. the only guy who stayed in that role for more than a season was doyle alexander who lurched around the orioles staff for several seasons before the big trade with the yanks.

i think earl, along with always looking for the next option, was also looking to keep his vets on their toes. didn't want anyone comfy. because if you didn't perform earl would find somebody else

oriole starters didn't throw many different pitches. they threw 2 pitches. would show you a third about 10 times a game. otherwise, it was pitch a, pitch b and in varying sequences. likely reduced stress on arms.

and there was earl himself. knew when to push a guy and when to pull him. he just knew. some things you have to credit for the manager and weaver's actual gift was knowing how to push max results out of a pitcher.

When young O's starters came up, like Flanagan or Scott MacGregor, they usually did not go to the rotation. They went to the pen and pitched as long guys. Weaver usually always had a swing starter. And he didn't really use bullpen roles IIRC; guys might pitch anytime. He might have 2 or even 3 closers. He also had some pretty good starters and they used the 4 man rotation for a lot of his tenure. Palmer, Cuellar, McNally et al racked up a lot of IP. Finally, he had Ray Miller, who he leaned on and trusted.

When young O's starters came up, like Flanagan or Scott MacGregor, they usually did not go to the rotation. They went to the pen and pitched as long guys.

Not really. Flanagan had a cup of coffee in 1975. In 1976, he began the season in the pen and had two long relief outings and eight short ones. He made a spot start in June (only 2.1 innings) and was in the starting rotation from the middle of August to late September. He pitched in relief in extra innings on the last day of the season. Also, he finished the game in seven of his ten relief appearances, so he wasn't exactly a middle releiver either. He was a starter from day one in 1977. MacGregor is a little closer to this platonic "break 'em in in long relief" ideal, except that after his cup of coffee in 1976, his first two appearances of 1977 were eight inning starts. Dennis Martinez broke in as the fifth starter in a five-day (as opposed to five-man) rotation, and pitched a mix of long and short relief in between.

Well fine, but they weren't just put right into the rotation and knocked out in the 3rd or 4th inning with high pitch counts, requiring extra relievers. Doyle Alexander was there for 4+ years and was a swingman, pitching many more games out of the pen than starting. (Although he wasn't a rookie, he had pitched a year for the Dodgers, but he was a starter.) Wayne Garland pitched in relief for two years. Storm Davis in his rookie year. Sammy Stewart was a starter in the minors but was such as asset as a once in awhile starter and a three inning at a time reliever they just kept him in that role. As you point out all three of Flanagan, MacGrgor and Martinez started out pitching out of the pen. So they weren't specifically "long men." I also noted that Earl didn't really have set "roles" in his pens. He would leave Richert in to pitch to a righthanded hitter in the 9th because he didn't want to see Gates Brown. One day Eddie Watt would close. The next day Stan Williams. Later it would be Stanhouse. Just when you thought Stanhouse was the favorite, Tippy Martinez would be out there in the 9th (often against righthanded hitters). Weaver was ahead of his time in platooning and in preserving his 27 outs. He was a throwback in working his starters hard and relying heavily on a 4-5 man bullpen.He used swingmen and the bullpen by committee. He used relievers 2 and 3 innings at a time. His guys didn't seem to get hurt any more often than anyone else's.

he looked ancient and I knew that he'd been the manager of the Orioles for their 69-71 run before I was born, I always assumed that he was about 10 years older than he actually was

Don Stanhouse did that to him.

Don Stanhouse did that to him.

Stan The Man Unusual

"Full-Pack" because Earl would smoke a full pack down the hallway to the clubhouse while Stanhouse labored through a bases-loaded jam taking a minute or two between every pitch.

One of Weaver's best relievers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.

One of Weaver's best relivers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.

One of Weaver's best relivers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.

And Dick Hall is only about 6 weeks younger than Earl.

Stan The Man Unusual

Has there ever been a more appropriate baseball nickname, other than maybe Ross "Skuz" Grimsley?

Has there ever been a more appropriate baseball nickname

dunno, but it's wonderfully clever... if I'm not mistaken, Mike Flanagan deserves the credit for that one.

We could have a contest. Off the top of my head, Dr. Strangeglove for Dick Stuart has to be up there with the best.