Greatest Blue Jays pitcher: Roy Halladay or Dave Stieb?
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His ERA+ is weighed down by lousy seasons on the front and back ends of his career;
If I had to guess, I'd say injury played some role.
Am I missing something? He hurt his shoulder in 2012 and was never the same again. I thought this was common knowledge. He missed a lot of time with injury over the past couple of years. He's hurt.
(I'm really pissed about Kevin Brown.)
In the press conference he actually said his arm/shoulder is fine, it's his back that's forcing him to retire...pinched nerves, etc.
I count those. -2.8 WAR (his disastrous year in 2000) really kills a team.
He says the shoulder feels fine now and his back was the biggest concern.
Halladay definitely had the 'feel' of a HOFer, and has some moments that will sound great on his Cooperstown plague: 2 Cy Youngs, a perfect game and a postseason no-no.
What sort of competition is he likely to face? The current pitcher glut will be largely resolved, one way or another. Who else is likely to be on the ballot?
The rest of his competition will be the super glut currently seen on the ballot, other than the few who get in.
Player WAR GS ERA+ From To Age W SV IPRoy Halladay 65.6 390 131 1998 2013 21-36 203 1 2749.1Stan Coveleski 65.1 385 127 1912 1928 22-38 215 21 3082.0Hal Newhouser 60.4 374 130 1939 1955 18-34 207 26 2993.0Bret Saberhagen 59.2 371 126 1984 2001 20-37 167 1 2562.2Tommy Bridges 52.6 362 126 1930 1946 23-39 194 10 2826.1
At first glance he belongs but a few more looks could raise some doubts. He never really had any of the >200 astronomical ERA+s.
He's in the same league as pitchers who will get in like Smoltz and Schilling.
Regular season yes. Where he diverges is that he has no notable post-season accomplishments, and so is a lesser candidate for that reason, IMO.
Yes, post-season no-hitters are the definition of not notable *rolls eyes*
And that's how notable it is. I've forgotten about it already.
I need to dig up more info about Tommy Bridges; I've been mildly intrigued about him for decades, really, ever since coming across some old baseball card of his in a mail-order catalogue when I was a kid.
Rk Player WAR Age
1 Roy Halladay 62.4 25-34
2 Johan Santana 50.1 23-31
3 CC Sabathia 47.7 21-30
4 Roy Oswalt 46.4 24-33
5 Mark Buehrle 42.3 23-32
6 Tim Hudson 40.4 26-35
7 Carlos Zambrano 38.7 21-30
8 Javier Vazquez 34.1 25-34
9 Brandon Webb 33.4 24-30
10 Randy Johnson 33.3 38-45
I stand by the assessment. Halladay is in the Kevin Brown/Curt Schilling/John Smoltz/Mike Mussina tier. He's not a shoo-in, no doubter, but he'll probably get in.
Rob Neyer wrote a useful, if short (six pages), essay on Bridges in The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers.
(The fact that he really does have some shiny jewels in his crown -- two Cy Youngs, workhorse reputation, perfect game, the second-ever postseason no-no in his very first postseason start, etc. -- will help a lot in terms of 'narrative.')
You've got to assume that Halladay's postseason no-no will have to enhance his voting potential.
Man, the lights can turn off fast.
Rk Player W From To Age
1 Andy Pettitte 148 2000 2009 28-37
2 Randy Johnson 143 2000 2009 36-45
3 Jamie Moyer 140 2000 2009 37-46
4 Roy Halladay 139 2000 2009 23-32
5 Tim Hudson 137 2000 2009 24-33
6 Roy Oswalt 137 2001 2009 23-31
7 CC Sabathia 136 2001 2009 20-28
8 Mark Buehrle 135 2000 2009 21-30
9 Greg Maddux 134 2000 2008 34-42
10 Mike Mussina 134 2000 2008 31-39
PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 09, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4614691)
Orel Hershiser had two careers--he was a short-lived star before he tore up his shoulder, and then he had a pretty good ten-year career as a league average innings eater after. Hershiser falls short of the Hall of Fame line, but only just. If he'd waited another two years to blow out his shoulder he'd probably go in.
I've always been partial to guys who dominate with guile, location and movement.
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