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1.bobm posted on September 22, 2012 at 10:32 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
The ironic part of TFA:
his partner of the last four years, Jack Basilone, who shares his home here, told me that McClatchy remains guarded, wary.
“He’s like when you go to Pottery Barn and get the floor model — they have some nicks and scrapes,” joked Basilone, 31. For their contentment they have Rick Santorum, the former senator from Pennsylvania, to thank. They were fixed up by someone who worked for Santorum and whom McClatchy first got to know through his professional interactions, when he owned the Pirates, with Santorum’s Senate office.
Unfortunately, he's probably killed any chances at getting any other jobs in sports, if he so chose.
7.Gamingboy posted on September 22, 2012 at 02:20 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Well, you can't be Jackie Robinson when you suck at your job I guess.
Unfortunately, he's probably killed any chances at getting any other jobs in sports, if he so chose.
These comments remind me of something Charles Barkley once said, which, sadly, is probably true: If an active player came out in the NBA (or any other major sports league), how good he was would make all the difference. If he was an established star player, only the most homophobic would be calling for him to be kicked off the team. But if he was a bench player, it could well end his career.
These comments remind me of something Charles Barkley once said, which, sadly, is probably true: If an active player came out in the NBA (or any other major sports league), how good he was would make all the difference. If he was an established star player, only the most homophobic would be calling for him to be kicked off the team. But if he was a bench player, it could well end his career.
Yea, but its not like McClatchy was some bench player in fear of losing his job. He was the boss and could have fired anyone that made homophobic slurs. I guess I don't have as much sympathy for him as I would for someone like Billy Bean or John Ameachi.
As far as ending your career, yea, it might end your career, but as Ameachi (a scrub) has shown, it can really kickstart a whole new and more lucrative career as a writer/public speaker. The first active openly gay player in a major sport is going to be hailed as huge celebrity no matter how good or bad he is.
well if he had come out as gay when he was rinning the team (into the ground) all that would have done is have a whole lot of people saying stuff about how (icky word for gays) ruin sports.
it's too bad someone really good/successful can't/won't come out. because there's no way i believe that not a single athlete in any of the 4 major US sports is gay.
sad thing is that i would bet it ain't the PLAYERS who would have the problem with a gay teammate, it's some of the fans who want a certain image, which don't have no icky homos in it. (sort of like george preston marshall not wanting any icky darkies on his nice clean White football team.) It would be like womens' sports which have lezbows or bimbos. no, you know, just females...
i would bet it ain't the PLAYERS who would have the problem with a gay teammate
I bet quite a few players would have a problem. These guys share a locker room and showers and I am certain that a number of players would be uncomfortable at best and outright hostile at worst toward a gay teammate. A locker room is more intimate than an office. I don't know if intimate is the right word but I think/hope you get my meaning.
I'm not saying that's right for the players to feel that way but I'm betting they would.
Maybe a decade ago there was an interview in Salon with some guy who had just published a book arguing that Abraham Lincoln was gay. The interviewer asked why he didn't just write a book arguing that James Buchanan was gay. It's an argument that would seem to have a lot of evidence to back it up, while the Lincoln thing requires that one go a lot further out on a limb. The author's respose was essentially, "I 'm interested in gay pride. Why the #### would I want to claim that James Buchanan was gay?"
Somehwere, someone is writing a book called something like Jerry Reinsdorf: Baseball's First Gay Owner. Right now he's hurriedly inserting a chapter called "Kevin McClatchy is Actually Straight".
But, yeah, good for McClatchy.
14.salajander posted on September 22, 2012 at 04:05 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
There's a lot of money, fame and twitter followers available to whatever big time athlete is willing to go first. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet in our 'look at me' society.
16.morineko posted on September 22, 2012 at 05:07 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Yea, but its not like McClatchy was some bench player in fear of losing his job. He was the boss and could have fired anyone that made homophobic slurs.
Agreed. He had no control over professional sports in general, but he had control of his own company. Even if he wasn't out, that sort of behavior is just not on in the general business world. What's the Pirates off-field personnel discrimination and harassment policy, now or then?
17.Gamingboy posted on September 22, 2012 at 05:24 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
I bet quite a few players would have a problem. These guys share a locker room and showers and I am certain that a number of players would be uncomfortable at best and outright hostile at worst toward a gay teammate. A locker room is more intimate than an office. I don't know if intimate is the right word but I think/hope you get my meaning.
But, as I said earlier, I think Barkley is right though when he says that if it's a star it wouldn't matter as much. If it's an All-Star who comes out, it won't matter as much: all but the most homophobic of players will put aside their complaints so long as that guy is helping the team win. But if a bench guy or replacement-level player were to come out, they'd probably be far more likely to say ugly things.
18.spike posted on September 22, 2012 at 06:15 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
These guys share a locker room and showers and I am certain that a number of players would be uncomfortable at best and outright hostile at worst toward a gay teammate.
Not that you are espousing this, but I always found this argument a bit weird. These guys have already been sharing showers etc. with a gay man, and nothing to date has happened, so if you learn that a teammate is gay, then what is the problem?
19.boteman posted on September 22, 2012 at 08:05 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
What's the Pirates off-field personnel discrimination and harassment policy, now or then?
I bet it doesn't mention writing tiny sayings on your eye black for the company softball game.
20.rfloh posted on September 22, 2012 at 08:07 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
" bet quite a few players would have a problem. These guys share a locker room and showers and I am certain that a number of players would be uncomfortable at best and outright hostile at worst toward a gay teammate. A locker room is more intimate than an office. I don't know if intimate is the right word but I think/hope you get my meaning."
I go into a locker room pretty much every day of the week, and most days of the year.
After a while, you don't care. Spend enough time in locker rooms, and you just want to do whatever you want to do, change, shower etc, regardless. The experiences of friends is similar too. Initially you are (somewhat) conscious about changing / going naked in a "public" place. After a while, it is "whatever".
And the world of professional sports, to which he is still connected, isn’t exactly crowded with proud, out gay men and women.
Seriously? I guess I really don't pay much attention, but IIRC there are quite a few openly gay female professional athletes, and it isn't a particularly new phenomenon. Big names too: Navratilova, King, Mauresmo, Patty Sheehan, Sheryl Swoopes.
Perhaps the sports world isn't as open as it should be to "out" lesbians, but that's an entirely different conversation.
Oh, and something I ran across on Wikipedia: link. I'm ashamed to admit I laughed, but I did laugh. And I'm a terrible human being for doing so.
Not that you are espousing this, but I always found this argument a bit weird. These guys have already been sharing showers etc. with a gay man, and nothing to date has happened, so if you learn that a teammate is gay, then what is the problem?
Ignorance is bliss. From a logical perspective you are right but people who would be bothered by this sort of thing are reacting emotionally. Think of it like someone being sick. If you shake someone's hand and THEN they tell you they've been very sick there is no reason for you to reflexively back away, you've already touched the person, but you are probably going to do it anyway.
20-22 all make valid points but I still think I'm right. I'd be pleased to be wrong. I think the Barkley comment is more reflective of how people would react publicly than how they would feel about the issue.
25.boteman posted on September 22, 2012 at 10:19 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
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26.MM1f posted on September 22, 2012 at 11:35 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Unfortunately, he's probably killed any chances at getting any other jobs in sports, if he so chose.
Getting a job in sports? He was a freakin' owner. He could have that job again so long as he had the funds and willingness to buy a team.
Further, jobs in sports isn't really McClatchey's concern. He's the CEO of a media empire. It isn't like he is out there submitting his resume to teams, hoping to get some VP of Marketing job.
And if he did want a job in sports, the fact that he presided over a team that never came close to a winning season would be a pretty good reason not to hire him, wouldn't it?
Seriously? I guess I really don't pay much attention, but IIRC there are quite a few openly gay female professional athletes, and it isn't a particularly new phenomenon. Big names too: Navratilova, King, Mauresmo, Patty Sheehan, Sheryl Swoopes.
I never heard of three of those people, and I had no idea the fourth was gay.
McClatchy, whose interview with The Times was his first public acknowledgment of his sexual orientation, could do considerable good. He remains well known in baseball — he’s been informally advising the mayor of Sacramento on the city’s interest in having a major league team — and is the ...
Interesting nugget, but I'm guessing Sacramento is a minimum of 500,000 people and $500 million short of having an MLB team. Just on population, the metro area ranks seven to 10 spots lower than Pittsburgh.
But, as I said earlier, I think Barkley is right though when he says that if it's a star it wouldn't matter as much. If it's an All-Star who comes out, it won't matter as much: all but the most homophobic of players will put aside their complaints so long as that guy is helping the team win. But if a bench guy or replacement-level player were to come out, they'd probably be far more likely to say ugly things.
I'd go further than that. As long as this first gay athlete is not an ####### (think A.J.), the majority of teammates and opponents won't care.
I've long believed the problem with these "How would you feel if a teammate came out" questions aimed at players is the only thing the player knows about this hypothetical teammate is his sexuality. But that isn't all these guys will know. They'll know them as people, as hard workers, or fun-loving guys etc., and thus the sexuality will be just a small part of their character. I really don't beileve it will be an issue.
31.Walt Davis posted on September 23, 2012 at 02:50 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Now that I think of it, I can't think of anybody I knew reasonably well who came out after I knew them. I've known plenty of gay and lesbian people but none of them were in the closet when I met them (an advantage of a life mostly in academia).
Again my delightfully cloistered life but being around gay people hasn't been a big deal in any of the circles I've run in for the last 25-30 years. (Which isn't to say we weren't also indulging some good-natured homophobic humor! :-) I can understand McClatchy being uncomfortable coming out in baseball but I guess, if anything, I'm surprised he wasn't out before then. I certainly don't consider it big or interesting news now.
Now, Presbyterians! I hope I never find out I shared a locker room with one of them.
33.Flynn posted on September 23, 2012 at 06:15 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
I never heard of three of those people, and I had no idea the fourth was gay.
You know for somebody who complains a lot when other people say something about the Pirates or the Nuttings that you don't approve of, you absolutely love flaunting your ignorance on almost every other issue. It's really weird and quite annoying.
34.Snowboy posted on September 23, 2012 at 06:53 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
So is the comma now the literary embodiment of Option J?
Because this article, and some of the comments, but especially the article, seem to like to hang out their comma, even if it is not necessary, or warranted. I am not an English professor, or a professor of English, if you will, but I do know something about the language, and I do not think the insertion of a comma is necessary, or warranted, in every phrase of a sentence.
I am not gay, and I do not oppose people who are gay, but I just want to know if the excessive insertion of the comma, in an article, is now a code for gay?
Because then I will filter my reading, okay?
Seriously? I guess I really don't pay much attention, but IIRC there are quite a few openly gay female professional athletes, and it isn't a particularly new phenomenon. Big names too: Navratilova, King, Mauresmo, Patty Sheehan, Sheryl Swoopes.
Most of those are tennis players; tennis is an individual sport, not a team one. You don't have to worry about what your teammates are going to say in the locker room every day. Swoopes plays a sport watched only by lesbians, so the league has rather a large incentive to protect star gay athletes from any sort of backlash.
Well, that's the thing. There aren't any professional women's team sports, other than the one "watched only by lesbians". There are semipro soccer and softball leagues posing as professional, but that's it AFAIK.
And if he did want a job in sports, the fact that he presided over a team that never came close to a winning season would be a pretty good reason not to hire him, wouldn't it?
Isiah Thomas says hi. And if we mean "job in sports" to include sports broadcasting, Matt Millen made McClatchy look like Branch Rickey.
If there's one thing sports history proves, poor job performance does not preclude people from being hired multiple times.
39.BDC posted on September 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
If there's one thing sports history proves, poor job performance does not preclude people from being hired multiple times
When they were my age (53), both Casey Stengel and Joe Torre had just about set the standard for managerial mediocrity. You just don't know when the circumstances are suddenly going to fit someone's skills – or, perhaps, given that management isn't like being able to throw a ball 95 MPH, when someone might actually learn something about management from previous mistakes.
Swoopes plays a sport watched only by lesbians, so the league has rather a large incentive to protect star gay athletes from any sort of backlash.
What a ridiculous comment. Does the WNBA have a sizable lesbian fan base? Sure, of course it does. But the most sizeable fanbase at WNBA games, at least in Seattle, are familes with young girls. And I've worked for the team, so I know who shows up at games.
43.BDC posted on September 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
The excitement and beauty of women's sports is one of the 1,000,000 topics on which I have decided to agree to disagree with David Nieporent.
44.ecwcat posted on September 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Blame the Bible thumpers in MLB clubhouses for the reason 10% of baseball players don't come out. The clubhouse Christians (guys like John Smoltz and Chad Curtis) hide behind "judging the action, not the person" lie.
For some reason to them homosexuality is worse than heterosexual adultery, divorce, and fortification.
I never heard of three of those people, and I had no idea the fourth was gay.
Not knowing King or Navritlova is a sign of sports ignorance. Both were probably the premier female athlete of their generation. That would be like not knowing Babe Didrikson. Heck if you don't know Navritlova, it's silly to think you have ever heard of Connors, Lendl or McEnroe.
46.puck posted on September 23, 2012 at 02:48 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Except he never said which ones he'd never heard of. Just 3 of them, and didn't know one of people he'd heard of was gay. Maybe he's never heard of Mauresmo, Sheehan, or Swoopes.
47.JJ1986 posted on September 23, 2012 at 02:58 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
You sound like me bad mouthing Soccer. I'm pretty certain that more people in this country care about women sports (golf, tennis, figure skating, collegiate etc) than they do about soccer. I'm also pretty sure more than 1% of the country cares about them.
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1 2 >not that there's anything not wrong with that...
He was a pretty lousy owner, but that's all water under the bridge at this point.
These comments remind me of something Charles Barkley once said, which, sadly, is probably true: If an active player came out in the NBA (or any other major sports league), how good he was would make all the difference. If he was an established star player, only the most homophobic would be calling for him to be kicked off the team. But if he was a bench player, it could well end his career.
Yea, but its not like McClatchy was some bench player in fear of losing his job. He was the boss and could have fired anyone that made homophobic slurs. I guess I don't have as much sympathy for him as I would for someone like Billy Bean or John Ameachi.
As far as ending your career, yea, it might end your career, but as Ameachi (a scrub) has shown, it can really kickstart a whole new and more lucrative career as a writer/public speaker. The first active openly gay player in a major sport is going to be hailed as huge celebrity no matter how good or bad he is.
it's too bad someone really good/successful can't/won't come out. because there's no way i believe that not a single athlete in any of the 4 major US sports is gay.
sad thing is that i would bet it ain't the PLAYERS who would have the problem with a gay teammate, it's some of the fans who want a certain image, which don't have no icky homos in it. (sort of like george preston marshall not wanting any icky darkies on his nice clean White football team.) It would be like womens' sports which have lezbows or bimbos. no, you know, just females...
GOD i hope so
hahahaha
I bet quite a few players would have a problem. These guys share a locker room and showers and I am certain that a number of players would be uncomfortable at best and outright hostile at worst toward a gay teammate. A locker room is more intimate than an office. I don't know if intimate is the right word but I think/hope you get my meaning.
I'm not saying that's right for the players to feel that way but I'm betting they would.
Somehwere, someone is writing a book called something like Jerry Reinsdorf: Baseball's First Gay Owner. Right now he's hurriedly inserting a chapter called "Kevin McClatchy is Actually Straight".
But, yeah, good for McClatchy.
We said someone really good.
Agreed. He had no control over professional sports in general, but he had control of his own company. Even if he wasn't out, that sort of behavior is just not on in the general business world. What's the Pirates off-field personnel discrimination and harassment policy, now or then?
But, as I said earlier, I think Barkley is right though when he says that if it's a star it wouldn't matter as much. If it's an All-Star who comes out, it won't matter as much: all but the most homophobic of players will put aside their complaints so long as that guy is helping the team win. But if a bench guy or replacement-level player were to come out, they'd probably be far more likely to say ugly things.
Not that you are espousing this, but I always found this argument a bit weird. These guys have already been sharing showers etc. with a gay man, and nothing to date has happened, so if you learn that a teammate is gay, then what is the problem?
I bet it doesn't mention writing tiny sayings on your eye black for the company softball game.
I go into a locker room pretty much every day of the week, and most days of the year.
After a while, you don't care. Spend enough time in locker rooms, and you just want to do whatever you want to do, change, shower etc, regardless. The experiences of friends is similar too. Initially you are (somewhat) conscious about changing / going naked in a "public" place. After a while, it is "whatever".
Yeah, I've always sorta figured that most gay men regard me with the same indifference as most straight women do.
Perhaps the sports world isn't as open as it should be to "out" lesbians, but that's an entirely different conversation.
Oh, and something I ran across on Wikipedia: link. I'm ashamed to admit I laughed, but I did laugh. And I'm a terrible human being for doing so.
Ignorance is bliss. From a logical perspective you are right but people who would be bothered by this sort of thing are reacting emotionally. Think of it like someone being sick. If you shake someone's hand and THEN they tell you they've been very sick there is no reason for you to reflexively back away, you've already touched the person, but you are probably going to do it anyway.
20-22 all make valid points but I still think I'm right. I'd be pleased to be wrong. I think the Barkley comment is more reflective of how people would react publicly than how they would feel about the issue.
Getting a job in sports? He was a freakin' owner. He could have that job again so long as he had the funds and willingness to buy a team.
Further, jobs in sports isn't really McClatchey's concern. He's the CEO of a media empire. It isn't like he is out there submitting his resume to teams, hoping to get some VP of Marketing job.
And if he did want a job in sports, the fact that he presided over a team that never came close to a winning season would be a pretty good reason not to hire him, wouldn't it?
I never heard of three of those people, and I had no idea the fourth was gay.
Talk about burying the lede.
Interesting nugget, but I'm guessing Sacramento is a minimum of 500,000 people and $500 million short of having an MLB team. Just on population, the metro area ranks seven to 10 spots lower than Pittsburgh.
I'd go further than that. As long as this first gay athlete is not an ####### (think A.J.), the majority of teammates and opponents won't care.
I've long believed the problem with these "How would you feel if a teammate came out" questions aimed at players is the only thing the player knows about this hypothetical teammate is his sexuality. But that isn't all these guys will know. They'll know them as people, as hard workers, or fun-loving guys etc., and thus the sexuality will be just a small part of their character. I really don't beileve it will be an issue.
Again my delightfully cloistered life but being around gay people hasn't been a big deal in any of the circles I've run in for the last 25-30 years. (Which isn't to say we weren't also indulging some good-natured homophobic humor! :-) I can understand McClatchy being uncomfortable coming out in baseball but I guess, if anything, I'm surprised he wasn't out before then. I certainly don't consider it big or interesting news now.
Now, Presbyterians! I hope I never find out I shared a locker room with one of them.
You know for somebody who complains a lot when other people say something about the Pirates or the Nuttings that you don't approve of, you absolutely love flaunting your ignorance on almost every other issue. It's really weird and quite annoying.
Because this article, and some of the comments, but especially the article, seem to like to hang out their comma, even if it is not necessary, or warranted. I am not an English professor, or a professor of English, if you will, but I do know something about the language, and I do not think the insertion of a comma is necessary, or warranted, in every phrase of a sentence.
I am not gay, and I do not oppose people who are gay, but I just want to know if the excessive insertion of the comma, in an article, is now a code for gay?
Because then I will filter my reading, okay?
Isiah Thomas says hi. And if we mean "job in sports" to include sports broadcasting, Matt Millen made McClatchy look like Branch Rickey.
If there's one thing sports history proves, poor job performance does not preclude people from being hired multiple times.
When they were my age (53), both Casey Stengel and Joe Torre had just about set the standard for managerial mediocrity. You just don't know when the circumstances are suddenly going to fit someone's skills – or, perhaps, given that management isn't like being able to throw a ball 95 MPH, when someone might actually learn something about management from previous mistakes.
What a ridiculous comment. Does the WNBA have a sizable lesbian fan base? Sure, of course it does. But the most sizeable fanbase at WNBA games, at least in Seattle, are familes with young girls. And I've worked for the team, so I know who shows up at games.
For some reason to them homosexuality is worse than heterosexual adultery, divorce, and fortification.
So much for tolerance.
Not knowing King or Navritlova is a sign of sports ignorance. Both were probably the premier female athlete of their generation. That would be like not knowing Babe Didrikson. Heck if you don't know Navritlova, it's silly to think you have ever heard of Connors, Lendl or McEnroe.
You sound like me bad mouthing Soccer. I'm pretty certain that more people in this country care about women sports (golf, tennis, figure skating, collegiate etc) than they do about soccer. I'm also pretty sure more than 1% of the country cares about them.
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