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You sound like me bad mouthing Soccer. I'm pretty certain that more people in this country care about women sports (golf, tennis, figure skating, collegiate etc) than they do about soccer. I'm also pretty sure more than 1% of the country cares about them.
I wasn't actually including tennis in there, and I'm pretty sure BDC wasn't either. I know lots of people like women's tennis.
52.Graham posted on September 23, 2012 at 03:19 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
You sound like me bad mouthing Soccer. I'm pretty certain that more people in this country care about women sports (golf, tennis, figure skating, collegiate etc) than they do about soccer. I'm also pretty sure more than 1% of the country cares about them.
This might be a regional issue as I live in a conservative part of the country, but I know a sizable number of people that actively follow soccer (20+). I know many more that casually follow soccer and enjoy watching the bigger events (World Cup, Euros, cup finals, etc.). Conversely, I know of two people that watch WNBA games. One is a coworker of a family member, and the other is such a basketball nut that he also watches NBA summer games and D-League games. There are a handful of people I know that will occasionally (a few times per year) attend women's sporting events at the local university in an effort to support the university.
This might be a regional issue as I live in a conservative part of the country, but I know a sizable number of people that actively follow soccer (20+).
I live in a part of the country that was once widely considered to be the heart of soccer in the U.S. and don't think I know of anyone that actively follows the sport(know tons that play of course) Of course that number is probably matched by the number of people that I can find that follows the WNBA also. I also know more people that followed the Womens Soccer team during the Olympics than the Mens. (People like a winner) There aren't a lot of followers of women's sports because there aren't a lot of mainstream women sports. But the olympics shows that people will give a passing interest in those sports, as figure skating(which in my world is no more of a sport than bowling, nascar or golf, but others consider it to be one) and other female sports do get good ratings when they air.
56.Graham posted on September 23, 2012 at 03:40 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
I live in a part of the country that was once widely considered to be the heart of soccer in the U.S. and don't think I know of anyone that actively follows the sport(know tons that play of course) Of course that number is probably matched by the number of people that I can find that follows the WNBA also. I also know more people that followed the Womens Soccer team during the Olympics than the Mens. (People like a winner) There aren't a lot of followers of women's sports because there aren't a lot of mainstream women sports. But the olympics shows that people will give a passing interest in those sports, as figure skating(which in my world is no more of a sport than bowling, nascar or golf, but others consider it to be one) and other female sports do get good ratings when they air.
Well, my "evidence" was purely anecdotal, but I know people who buy kits, scarves, and other memorabilia. These same people get up early on weekends to watch European matches and keep up with roster moves. I consider that "actively following" a sport, but maybe others do not think that's a stringent enough requirement. I do not think that the Olympics is a good indicator of people's interests in any sport. Soccer is the most popular game in the world, and the most rabid soccer countries don't care very much for Olympic soccer. The rosters were C-grade compared to the Euros rosters. The Olympics are filled with sports to which no one pays attention for 3.96 years out of 4. I very much doubt that any of the Olympic sports would generate much excitement if it weren't for the Olympic "buzz" (once every 4 years, spectacle of ceremonies, international participation, etc.).
I agree for the most part, but pointing that there are people that care about women's sports. True the largest following is for tennis, but there is enough for basketball(college and pro) to get more nationwide tv coverage than soccer. Same with the female Olympic sports. Soccer gets no nationwide coverage except during the world cup. In a non world cup year, there are going to be more national broadcasts of female figure skating, female basketball(college included), female golf and maybe even female soccer than male soccer. I don't think that is even up for debate. The point is that it's indicative there are a numerical significant number of people who care about female sports to garner the tv attention.
For some reason to them homosexuality is worse than heterosexual adultery, divorce, and fortification.
Hey, adultery and divorce happen. Not much to do, really. But fortification? Gotta draw the line somewhere!
59.BDC posted on September 23, 2012 at 04:43 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
lots of people like women's tennis
It's interesting to speculate "why." One reason lots of people cite for dismissing women's sports is that women aren't as good at a given sport as men. That's as true for tennis as any other sport; it's been mooted, and generally agreed to by the participants, that the Williams sisters would be beaten handily by the top 300-400 men.
But: deeply engrained in tennis is the system whereby the major championships for the two sexes are played at the same time and venue. The rules are slightly different, but men and women share a stage, and in mixed doubles share an event. The media are there for both sexes. The culture of the sport emphasizes strong mutual respect between sexes. (It's also a gay-friendly sport, and long has been; aside from the well-known women, Bill Tilden, who was the Bobby Jones [or Babe Ruth or Red Grange] of tennis, was gay – not publicly, of course, but well-known to be within the sport; it set a tone.)
If women played major golf championships (from different tees) at the same courses and dates as men, it would be (aside from hugely impractical, of course) a huge narrower of the popularity gap between men's and women's golf. In fact, the first time Yani Tseng hit an iron shot smoothly to the green after Rory McIlroy knocked the same shot into the water (and that would happen sometime in the first weekend they tried it), the whole balance of the sport would shift, at least a little.
My guess would be just about the average of your two estimates.
I was thinking 100 or so, but the Williams sisters had skills that would translate well to the mens game, compared to some of the other female high ranking tennis players of the past.
64.BDC posted on September 23, 2012 at 05:36 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Source for the ~300-400 estimate. I don't know if this is 100% serious (even the author alludes to its casualness), but it has never really been challenged. It's an estimate, in any case.
44. ecwcat Posted: September 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4243604)
Blame the Bible thumpers in MLB clubhouses for the reason 10% of baseball players don't come out. The clubhouse Christians (guys like John Smoltz and Chad Curtis) hide behind "judging the action, not the person" lie.
- first, i and most other Christians would appreciate it if you referred those who use the Bible to justify acting against the teachings of Christ as Fundamentalists and/or Hatahs
thank you
on to your comment: smoltz and curtis are no longer playing and they have been replaced by younger guys who have grown up in a different era.
and i remember it was only a couple of years back that a Fundamentalist got asked something about how would he like playing with a gay guy - and he replied, i already have.
men still throw not very nice words meaning gay around, but they use those words as often as they call the other man something female. it doesn't mean that either they hate gays or would refuse to tolerate gays on the team
Soccer gets no nationwide coverage except during the world cup. In a non world cup year, there are going to be more national broadcasts of female figure skating, female basketball(college included), female golf and maybe even female soccer than male soccer. I don't think that is even up for debate.
What? This is demonstrably untrue. Every single game of this past summer's European Championships were broadcast on ESPN or ESPN2. ESPN2 broadcasts one game from the English Premier League per week. ESPN or ESPN2 also frequently broadcast the U.S. men's team's games. Maybe you weren't including the ESPN networks, but do those female sports you mentioned get broadcast outside of the ESPN networks?
67.bunyon posted on September 23, 2012 at 07:23 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
To be fair, I'm not even sure lesbians watch the WNBA.
It looks like there’s this shift occurring in the NFL right now,” said Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe, talking about gay marriage. “As younger and younger generations are coming through, they’ve been raised to realize that this isn’t bad thing. It’s about equality. It’s about being able to lead your life free of oppression.”
Blame the Bible thumpers in MLB clubhouses for the reason 10% of baseball players don't come out. The clubhouse Christians (guys like John Smoltz and Chad Curtis) hide behind "judging the action, not the person" lie.
Those guys are an issue, but can we acknowledge that some of the biggest opponents to gay rights have been socially conservative black men? Attitudes like Tim Hardaway's aren't all that uncommon. I think that's going to be one of the bigger obstacles to gay acceptance in pro sports, seeing as the population of African-Americans is larger in sports than in the general population.
And then there are Latino immigrants who come from countries far less progressive on gay rights and more religiously conservative, displaying the kind of attitude Yunel Escobar takes.
and i remember it was only a couple of years back that a Fundamentalist got asked something about how would he like playing with a gay guy - and he replied, i already have.
That was Mike Timlin, who is indeed very religious (though I'm not sure whether he identifies as a fundamentalist). He also added that it wasn't a big deal.
70.Russ posted on September 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
This story was interesting in that it was pretty much an open secret in Pittsburgh that McClatchy was gay. And no one cared because they loved him for saving the team and then hated him for ruining it, but pretty much everyone was at least pretty darned sure of his sexual orientation and didn't care. He lived in a fairly progressive part of the city when he first bought the team, so I don't think it was all hush-hush... I think most people just didn't care.
Source for the ~300-400 estimate. I don't know if this is 100% serious (even the author alludes to its casualness), but it has never really been challenged. It's an estimate, in any case.
The problem I have with that story is that Venus and Serena were 16-18 years old when it happened.
I think the 20-something Serena/Venus Williams would have been more interesting to see go up against a mid-level pro.
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< 1 2This might be a regional issue as I live in a conservative part of the country, but I know a sizable number of people that actively follow soccer (20+). I know many more that casually follow soccer and enjoy watching the bigger events (World Cup, Euros, cup finals, etc.). Conversely, I know of two people that watch WNBA games. One is a coworker of a family member, and the other is such a basketball nut that he also watches NBA summer games and D-League games. There are a handful of people I know that will occasionally (a few times per year) attend women's sporting events at the local university in an effort to support the university.
Really? That's what you're going with? "The WNBA is played and watched by lesbians." Really? Are you that stupid, or just that big of an #######?
I live in a part of the country that was once widely considered to be the heart of soccer in the U.S. and don't think I know of anyone that actively follows the sport(know tons that play of course) Of course that number is probably matched by the number of people that I can find that follows the WNBA also. I also know more people that followed the Womens Soccer team during the Olympics than the Mens. (People like a winner) There aren't a lot of followers of women's sports because there aren't a lot of mainstream women sports. But the olympics shows that people will give a passing interest in those sports, as figure skating(which in my world is no more of a sport than bowling, nascar or golf, but others consider it to be one) and other female sports do get good ratings when they air.
Well, my "evidence" was purely anecdotal, but I know people who buy kits, scarves, and other memorabilia. These same people get up early on weekends to watch European matches and keep up with roster moves. I consider that "actively following" a sport, but maybe others do not think that's a stringent enough requirement. I do not think that the Olympics is a good indicator of people's interests in any sport. Soccer is the most popular game in the world, and the most rabid soccer countries don't care very much for Olympic soccer. The rosters were C-grade compared to the Euros rosters. The Olympics are filled with sports to which no one pays attention for 3.96 years out of 4. I very much doubt that any of the Olympic sports would generate much excitement if it weren't for the Olympic "buzz" (once every 4 years, spectacle of ceremonies, international participation, etc.).
Hey, adultery and divorce happen. Not much to do, really. But fortification? Gotta draw the line somewhere!
It's interesting to speculate "why." One reason lots of people cite for dismissing women's sports is that women aren't as good at a given sport as men. That's as true for tennis as any other sport; it's been mooted, and generally agreed to by the participants, that the Williams sisters would be beaten handily by the top 300-400 men.
But: deeply engrained in tennis is the system whereby the major championships for the two sexes are played at the same time and venue. The rules are slightly different, but men and women share a stage, and in mixed doubles share an event. The media are there for both sexes. The culture of the sport emphasizes strong mutual respect between sexes. (It's also a gay-friendly sport, and long has been; aside from the well-known women, Bill Tilden, who was the Bobby Jones [or Babe Ruth or Red Grange] of tennis, was gay – not publicly, of course, but well-known to be within the sport; it set a tone.)
If women played major golf championships (from different tees) at the same courses and dates as men, it would be (aside from hugely impractical, of course) a huge narrower of the popularity gap between men's and women's golf. In fact, the first time Yani Tseng hit an iron shot smoothly to the green after Rory McIlroy knocked the same shot into the water (and that would happen sometime in the first weekend they tried it), the whole balance of the sport would shift, at least a little.
I've always considered myself a male lesbian. I'm entirely attracted to women and find men sexually repugnant.
My guess would be just about the average of your two estimates.
I was thinking 100 or so, but the Williams sisters had skills that would translate well to the mens game, compared to some of the other female high ranking tennis players of the past.
- first, i and most other Christians would appreciate it if you referred those who use the Bible to justify acting against the teachings of Christ as Fundamentalists and/or Hatahs
thank you
on to your comment: smoltz and curtis are no longer playing and they have been replaced by younger guys who have grown up in a different era.
and i remember it was only a couple of years back that a Fundamentalist got asked something about how would he like playing with a gay guy - and he replied, i already have.
men still throw not very nice words meaning gay around, but they use those words as often as they call the other man something female. it doesn't mean that either they hate gays or would refuse to tolerate gays on the team
What? This is demonstrably untrue. Every single game of this past summer's European Championships were broadcast on ESPN or ESPN2. ESPN2 broadcasts one game from the English Premier League per week. ESPN or ESPN2 also frequently broadcast the U.S. men's team's games. Maybe you weren't including the ESPN networks, but do those female sports you mentioned get broadcast outside of the ESPN networks?
(and I like women's basketball).
Those guys are an issue, but can we acknowledge that some of the biggest opponents to gay rights have been socially conservative black men? Attitudes like Tim Hardaway's aren't all that uncommon. I think that's going to be one of the bigger obstacles to gay acceptance in pro sports, seeing as the population of African-Americans is larger in sports than in the general population.
And then there are Latino immigrants who come from countries far less progressive on gay rights and more religiously conservative, displaying the kind of attitude Yunel Escobar takes.
That was Mike Timlin, who is indeed very religious (though I'm not sure whether he identifies as a fundamentalist). He also added that it wasn't a big deal.
The problem I have with that story is that Venus and Serena were 16-18 years old when it happened.
I think the 20-something Serena/Venus Williams would have been more interesting to see go up against a mid-level pro.
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