[quote]Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4256870)
Also, he talks about God in interviews. Interviews aren't conversations with people. In addition to what was said above about the likely sincerity, if I were a celeb, I'd come up with 5 or 6 benign things and simply repeat them.

If all Josh Hamilton can talk about with friends and family is God, then, yes, he's insufferable.

(Actually, you said insufferable interview - that may be a valid point).


I don't doubt his sincerity. And while I don't really care to hear any unsolicited religious banter, I can appreciate that he appears to be educated on the matter rather than the Generic "God Is Good" type of athlete described in an earlier post. It's just that unless it's pertinent to the topic of conversation (i.e. how he got clean), then I don't really want to hear incessant references to religion (e.g. when he said he prayed for those fans in the outfield who heckled him).

jeezus keerist

you atheists are as intolerant as any fundamentalist

he hasn't said one unsolicited thing. SOMEONE asked him with a mike in his face about the boos. he answered. he told you how HE deals with it. he isn't trying to get YOU or anyone else to agreed with it or do it his way.

for josh hamilton, God/religion actually IS pertinent to topics he is ASKED about whether or not you like the answers

free your mind.

try a little tolerance

Darrell Porter.

I thought it was Jack Clark. Maybe it was both of them.

you atheists are as intolerant as any fundamentalist

I'm an atheist, and I said very tolerant things about Hamilton in this very thread!

On Porter, James used the cake analogy. Milwaukee baked the cake; St Louis paid for it; Kansas City ate it. But actually Porter was great for St Louis.

for josh hamilton, God/religion actually IS pertinent to topics he is ASKED about whether or not you like the answers

You do not need to be an atheist to think that there is something badly off and off-putting about a person who feels the need to repeatedly publicly bare his soul. Talking about his religious beliefs when a sports writer asks about a double play is like talking about your wife cheating on you every time an acquaintance asks "how are you doing."

Look, Hamilton has shown that he's terrible at doing things in moderation. He can't just have a beer. He can't just get one tattoo. When there's something he's doing, it consumes all his attention. Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on. It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.

Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on

At an individual level, that much is true. But I absolutely guarantee you beyond any reasonable doubt, that on a macro scale, heroin and drunk driving kills fewer people in it's history than religion. :)

Edit: But I agree with the overall point from post 56.

YEAH BUT JESUS SUCKS

Talking about his religious beliefs when a sports writer asks about a double play is like talking about your wife cheating on you every time an acquaintance asks "how are you doing."

Or like Batman always whining about his dead parents!

53
monty - i see your point and i'm sorry

55 something

tell you what - just substitite the word "bean" for every time he says "God" or "jesus" and "shazam" every time he says "bible" and then you'll feel all better. if you think that God and jesus and the Bible is all nonsense, what is it to you if he talks about it?

he needs to do what you call "bare his soul" in order to take what he considers responsibility for his life and stay off mind altering chemicals.

try a little tolerance

and, by the way, there is no good answer for "so why did you hit into that double play"
or
"so how do you feel about your hometown fans booing you"
or
"so why did you strike out when your team was counting on you to get a hit"

etc

Would Hamilton, Jones, Markakis be the best outfield in baseball?

I'd still take Cespedes / Crisp / Reddick, but I'm probably just being a homer.

I am waiting for a player to say, "Why did I strike out? God did it. I put my faith in him and he left me high and dry. Don't blame me. Blame God."

It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.

But he could have chosen porn! Choosing religion over porn for an addiction is just whack.

Hamilton would be just a corner boy

Wire reference aside, it's true ... I am pretty much expecting whoever grabs Hamilton to shift him to a corner. I know he still plays a lot of CF and maybe not as badly as b-r says he did this year -- I suppose he could be Edmonds. But I think you're safer sticking him in a corner.

what is it to you if he talks about it?

It is very little to me, since I don't listen to a lot of Hamilton interviews. But my life is less pleasant because promiscuous public religiosity is now normal. A trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant when a cashier tells me "have a blessed day." Likewise when athletic events are made into manifestations of God's will. This type of behavior would have been condemned as vulgar exhibitionism not very long ago. It still is, but vulgar exhibitionism is the new normal. Not that it should matter, but I'm not an atheist.
#56 -- very good point. It is a reason to cut Hamilton some slack.

A trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant when a cashier tells me "have a blessed day."

Lighten up, Francis.

Your trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant because the cashier used a word with religious connotations in saying something nice to you?

I mean, I'm a practicing Christian, and was never offended in Egypt when random storekeepers wished Allah's blessings on me.

I do agree that the public God we have today is, IMO, inferior to the private God I grew up with. But it's no biggy. I have enjoyed telling cashiers to "hey, thanks, you have a good one too" and girls wearing shirts that say "His" that they shouldn't so obviously wear their boyfriend's shirts.

I'm not sure any of the folks I do this with know what my point is but I enjoy it.



My only real point in this thread is that people are asking Hamilton questions and caring what he says. That gives him a lot of power. If you don't like what he says, don't listen to postgame interviews. It's all (or mostly) crap anyway - whether religious, cliche, incoherent, whatever.

I wouldn't touch Hamilton for any contract over three years, but someone will, I'm sure. The signs are not positive.

I mean, I'm a practicing Christian, and was never offended in Egypt when random storekeepers wished Allah's blessings on me.

Maybe you need more practice.

@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.

Look, Hamilton has shown that he's terrible at doing things in moderation. He can't just have a beer. He can't just get one tattoo. When there's something he's doing, it consumes all his attention. Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on. It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.

Frank House once wrote that many players would pretend to be religious just to avoid being sucked into the drug or booze cliques. Apparently the aura of being "born again" was enough to make the druggies back off with the peer pressure, since who would ever question a "Christian" within a baseball clubhouse?

Hard to know just how widespread that phenomenon ever was, but at one point in the 90's, 22 out of 25 Texas Rangers were supposedly "born again" Christians back when "born again" Johnny Oates was their manager. It may not have been the dumbest of career moves for a religiously indifferent player to play along with the piety in an environment as pious as that.

(Not that any of this necessarily has anything to do with Josh Hamilton, as the sincerity of his Christianity can only be known by himself.)

@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.

This is a fair summary.....obviously the buyer takes on some risk but for 5/100 they have the big upside particularly compared to similar contracts handed out over the past couple years......if it was my team (the Nationals, who know about paying big money to outfielders) I would not want him. I just think all the caffeine od, dropped fly ball, recent plate appearances where he appeared to be in a hurry to get back in the dugout are not plus indicators. Just based on numbers he would be worth it...

@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.

You don't really punt the last few years of a star's long contract - the players usually are still an asset for the team. It is more likely than people acknowledge that Hamilton will be a good to great player in 2016-2017.

Sure, Hamilton has some unique risks and some injury concerns, but if he didn't than a team would have to give him either $30 million a year to sign him, or a deal as long as Prince Fielder's.

Looking over the thread and thinking about teams' rosters, I think San Francisco makes the most sense in the NL and Baltimore fits best in the AL. A lot of big money teams have already made big/huge commitments to power hitters/outfielders, (Yankees, Tigers, Angels, Phillies, White Sox, Dodgers) and two big-market teams (Cubs, Mets) are probably looking longer view. I don't see Miami spending big money again so soon. SF could use a hitter and while Hamilton's personality seems an odd match with the Bay Area, Bochy, like Washington, is a guy who seems to know how to deal with the various personalities in a clubhouse. Baltimore needs to press this sudden marketing advantage, leverage their success, and work not to slip back in 2013.

I think two other possibilities are Boston and Seattle. Yes, Boston has been burned on some big deals lately, but Hamilton can hit, Boston has money to spend, and they need talent. Seattle needs hitting and while they are not a terrible team, are overlooked and off the radar in the AL West. Getting Hamilton would be a big boost for them.

All this assumes, of course, that Hamilton is leaving Texas--and I am still not convinced that he will.

And another team that makes sense, as noted upthread, is Atlanta. Hamilton would in effect replace Jones.

this assumes, of course, that Hamilton is leaving Texas--and I am still not convinced that he will

Local media here in DFW have been poisoning the well in this regard for several months now, and the last week has made the poisoning even worse. It's conceivable that Mr Ryan will just ignore them – he doesn't strike me as somebody who overmuch gives a #### what people think – but it's just as possible that the writers have been cheapening Hamilton because they have figured out he's on his way out the door anyway.

It will be tough to replace a superstar #3 hitter, but one has to replace them periodically anyway. Time's arrow is a tough customer :(

It's conceivable that Mr Ryan will just ignore them

Sure. Leaving aside the well-poisoning, there is certainly a "baseball case" to be made for letting Hamilton leave, and trying to get a younger and/or cheaper guy in the lineup. Obviously the meltdown at the end leaves a bad taste. But at the same time, as a few people have suggested, I think there is a danger in overthinking it and thereby overstating all the downsides to giving Hamilton a long deal. Texas still has a very good team, and Hamilton is still a very good hitter.

I remember when people thought Hamilton might make a run at the RBI record.

I remember when people thought Hamilton might make a run at the RBI record.

Doesn't that seem to happen every other year(not Hamilton, but someone)? In June they'll be talking about on pace or some other crap, and then reality rears it's ugly head.

Yeah, wasn't Darryl Strawberry or somebody "on pace" for 186 HR one year?

The Hamilton RBI thing this season didn't get as much play around here as it deserved, though, having been unfortunately drowned out by the "can Derek Jeter hit .400?" furor.

Yeah, wasn't Darryl Strawberry or somebody "on pace" for 186 HR one year?

The Hamilton RBI thing this season didn't get as much play around here as it deserved, though, having been unfortunately drowned out by the "can Derek Jeter hit .400?" furor.

Not sure about Strawberry, but in the relatively recent past, you had Juan Gonzalez and Albert Belle chase for the rbi record(and maybe even Sosa...going by memory) Not sure if there has been anyone more recent that had people seriously talking about them in June.

I recall there was some talk of Manny doing it in 1999, when he had 96 at the break, but after Gonzalez had 101 at the break and flamed out in the second half the year before, I think the story didn't get the attention it otherwise would have (even though Manny finished the season with 165, the highest total in my lifetime if not longer).

I don't think I've ever encountered much single-season RBI record talk at all. I remember one year when Manny Ramirez had about 100 at the All-Star break, so there was some chatter then, but he fell off pace soon afterwards. (EDIT: As #81 says.) That's pretty much it.

It's really, really hard to do in the modern age, is the thing. In all probability, you'd have to have two guys hitting in front of you who both not only get on base constantly, but have little power themselves. Andrus is admittedly a great start towards that, but it'd help if he could get his OBP a little higher. Kinsler has had seasons where he'd be a big help (e.g. 2010: .382 OBP, 9 HR) and seasons where he'd be a big detriment (e.g. 2009: .327 OBP, 31 HR)...

Manny's 1999 was the highest RBI total in more than sixty years.

I'm not a Red Sox fan, I forget they have a team in Boston, there isn't enough media exposure of them to remind me of this. :) (Ok, I claim brain fart)

oops, I meant Indians fan.....

EDIT: Nevermind.

It's really, really hard to do in the modern age, is the thing.

Definitely. Wilson's 1930 Cubs had a .378 OBP. According to this article at BPro, the highest any team had reached between 1969 (when the mound was raised) and 2006 was .374, and that was by the Yankees in the strike-shortened 1994 season. The highest in a full season was .373, by (surprise!) Manny's 1999 Indians. And if Manny had played 155 games and batted .356 with a .723 slugging percentage, he might have come closer to the record. As it was, he played 147 games and batted .333 with a .663 SLG%. Other guys have slugged higher than Wilson but few played enough games or walked little enough (not that he didn't walk) to rack up the ABs needed to break the record.

It really does require a perfect storm -- a team that gets on base at an historic rate combined with a batter having an historic season of high durability and relatively few walks.

Josh Hamilton (whom I will always root for, in'shallah) is the most notorious streak hitter I've ever seen. When he's on, you really ought to walk him with the bases loaded, as Joe Maddon once did. When he's off, he's OFF; even bad pitches will get him out. He just picked the worst possible time of year to be off.

I'd buy a $5 Hot and Ready every day if it would help bring Hamilton to Detroit. Imagine that 3-4-5 combo! And he wouldn't be asked to play CF.