“You are just like all of us because we all stumble, fail, and have to get back up and recover from our bruises too.”

That guy in the bleachers didn't.

and he's white and religious.......

I'm still waiting for Hamilton to go all the way with the AA 12 steps and make financial amends to Tampa

Maybe some things the steroids guys can learn in this?

"Why we forgive athletes."

I'm always puzzled by people who hold grudges against athletes. I've never even been in a place where I needed to "forgive" an athlete. I watch them play. I'm not married to them. I don't care what they do off the field. Why anyone would care about this, or would judge an athlete or get "angry" with him or need to decide whether to "forgive" him is a problem with the fan, not with the athlete.

"Maybe some things the steroids guys can learn in this?"

Do coke or heroin instead.

The team that Hamilton hurt doesn't have many fans. If he'd been a Yankee or Red Sox draft pick, the story would be different.

I agree with Ray. Today I have complimented one of his posts and agreed with him. This to shall pass one imagines, but for now ...

Did I miss something? Has he shown up drunk or high for a World Series game? Being a little injury prone is the only sin Hamilton committed since he came to the majors.

Forgiveness doesn't really enter into it. Sports fans don't really give a #### what an athlete does in his personal time as long as he produces on the field/court/ice.

Stop producing, however...

Did I miss something? Has he shown up drunk or high for a World Series game?

No, but he showed up having been drunk and high in the past. That was enough for some people.

I think I'll always regard Hamilton as an idiot that was so talented that even his spectacular idiocy couldn't suppress his ability to swing a baseball bat. That's not really someone I have any admiration for.

There's not really anything for me to "forgive" him for though, it's not like he kicked my dog.

It's really very simple. Fan pay good money to watch their team at the ballpark. If they feel one of the players on the team is doing something that will affect his ability to perform at the highest level possible, it's only natural for some fans to feel resentment.

There's nothing strange or illogical about such a reaction. It's just human nature.

“You are just like all of us because we all stumble, fail, and have to get back up and recover from our bruises too.”

That guy in the bleachers didn't.

that is probably the third worst thing i've read on BBTF this year.

Forgiveness doesn't really enter into it. Sports fans don't really give a #### what an athlete does in his personal time as long as he produces on the field/court/ice.

Stop producing, however...

That's not peculiar to athletes, though. I don't give a #### what the guy who mows my lawn does in his personal time as long as he keeps the grass nice.

Mow the cat and ding my car, however...

I'm always puzzled by people who hold grudges against athletes. I've never even been in a place where I needed to "forgive" an athlete. I watch them play. I'm not married to them. I don't care what they do off the field. Why anyone would care about this, or would judge an athlete or get "angry" with him or need to decide whether to "forgive" him is a problem with the fan, not with the athlete.

Exactly this. He didn't do anything to me. I guess I could understand if some Rays fans were still frustrated with him for blowing his shot with that franchise. Man, imagine the 2008-present Rays with Longoria and Hamilton batting 3-4.

Man, imagine the 2008-present Rays with Longoria and four more prospects they got in the Hamilton trade.

FTFY

that is probably the third worst thing i've read on BBTF this year.

It's still early.

Whether Hamilton gets forgiveness from people he never wronged seems a non-issue to me, but then again, if "issue vs. non-issue" was the litmus test for whether a sportswriter published something, we'd have far less sports writing. Far, far less.

that is probably the third worst thing i've read on BBTF this year.

All I have to do is make a Web Gem and you'll be forced to forgive me.

Mow the cat

We'll have none of that dirty talk here, young man...

Whether Hamilton gets forgiveness from people he never wronged seems a non-issue to me, but then again, if "issue vs. non-issue" was the litmus test for whether a sportswriter published something, we'd have far less sports writing. Far, far less.

Tell me more...

It's really very simple. Fan pay good money to watch their team at the ballpark. If they feel one of the players on the team is doing something that will affect his ability to perform at the highest level possible, it's only natural for some fans to feel resentment.

Even if we grant this assumption, what does this have to do with Hamilton? OK, sure, the fans in Charleston and Orlando might feel like they shelled out good money to watch a guy more concerned with smack than baseball. But there are no instances where he's done something that affects his ability to perform at the highest level in MLB or at any other level since 2002 which was over a decade ago and he has reportedly been clean for over 7 years now.

So anybody who feels even the slightest need to "forgive" Hamilton or feels they've been slighted or to even say that such an attitude is understandable is a child.

And now I'll point out that your argument is BS. This isn't a rational, economic decision people are making. People get irrationally emotional about players (actors, celebrities, etc). They fool themselves into thinking there's some sort of reciprocal relationship and therefore feel betrayed when the player "lets them down." That's understandable when you're that 7-year-old girl who loved Rickey Henderson but it's sheer irrational fantasy by the time you're 13.

Not that there's anything wrong with irrational attachment -- makes the world go round and all. But if you saw a baseball game after paying your money to see a baseball game, you got what you paid for. Bad choice if you picked the day when Shawn Estes was starting or the travel day lineup game or the Sept call-up minor-league all-star game or the one when Dock Ellis is tripping. Oh wait, that last one was a good choice at least once.

Josh Hamilton has never done a ####### thing to me. What do I have to forgive him for?

The only reason to be mad at Hamilton is if you are a huge tampa bay fan, so I am sure those 3 guys are kind of pissed, but it's not like they didn't have success afterwards.

It's really very simple. Fan pay good money to watch their team at the ballpark. If they feel one of the players on the team is doing something that will affect his ability to perform at the highest level possible, it's only natural for some fans to feel resentment.

And then we got steroids, where fans felt that players were doing something that enabled them to perform at the highest level possible, and so it was only natural for them to feel resentment.

There's nothing strange or illogical about such a reaction.

It's strange, it's illogical.

It's just human nature.

It's childish at best, which I grant is human nature.

In which BTF regulars are revealed as non-Human...

And then we got steroids, where fans felt that players were doing something that enabled them to perform at the highest level possible, and so it was only natural for them to feel resentment.

Because in many cases doing that "something" required the player to break the law, and fans didn't like the idea of rooting for criminals.

Texas fan culture seems to me a little more bound up with moral judgments than that of other places I've lived. The "forgiveness" exhibited by Ranger fans is likely to be related to the couple of incidents where Hamilton had a drink in the offseason, which drew a lot of ink and bytes in DFW. Fans had bought into the redemption picture, and when it was seen to have a small smudge on it here or there, there was outrage. Some people follow sports like they'd follow soap operas or reality TV, and (like Ray and Walt) I'm not one of them. Now, I can see being disappointed in Hamilton for not catching that ball against Oakland last fall, but even then, mental and physical mistakes are part of the game too, and nobody but Jeter is immune to them :) The current theme in the DFW media is to get on Hamilton not for dropping the ball, but for reportedly saying, afterwards, "What does it matter?" – but when you think of it, there are guys who might say that after hitting a home run, too. What does that matter to a fan trying to enjoy the game itself?

I'm still waiting for Hamilton to go all the way with the AA 12 steps and make financial amends to Tampa

Why does he owe them anything? It was their decision not to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If they had just protected him and brought him to ST, they'd have gotten 6 pretty good major league years out of him...plus draft picks. Also I'm not sure what to forgive or not forgive....addiction is an illness and people sometimes relapse. It's like having to forgive or not forgive a diabetic for getting overweight. You hire a sick person, they're going to have symptoms occasionally.

The "forgiveness" exhibited by Ranger fans is likely to be related to the couple of incidents where Hamilton had a drink in the offseason, which drew a lot of ink and bytes in DFW.

It wasn't just there. It was all over ESPN, too.

Kudos to Hamilton (and his agent, who probably worked very hard at it behind the scenes) for keeping clean long enough to land that megacontract, and best of luck to him in his efforts to stay on the wagon now that he's officially a multibazillionaire.

Sorry, I got a bit more insulting in my post than is warranted. I guess I was on my anti-moralism moral crusade yesterday.

I'm always puzzled by people who hold grudges against athletes. I've never even been in a place where I needed to "forgive" an athlete. I watch them play. I'm not married to them. I don't care what they do off the field. Why anyone would care about this, or would judge an athlete or get "angry" with him or need to decide whether to "forgive" him is a problem with the fan, not with the athlete.

I agree. I don't really get why some on here make such a big stink about Brett Myers' domestic abuse incident every time his name is mentioned. Yea, its awful, domestic abuse in general is awful. But its a separate issue from his shittiness as a pitcher (and curiously, Miguel Cabera's domestic abuse doesn't seem to get mentioned in every Miggy thread because...home runs!)

What about political views? Some here seem to hate Luke Scott or Jeff Suppan because of their outspoken conservative views (and others may hate Carlos Delgado for his anti-war views). Is that separate?

What about entertainment? Does an actor's boorish behavior or political views affect your ability to enjoy their art?

Let's see....public figure, makes millions, used hardcore drugs (also called breaking the law), almost ruined his career and squandered a chance the fans can never get, got caught on camera a couple of years ago at a bar, yeah, I'm shocked and puzzled why forgiveness would be a question for the unwashed masses.

The media influences fan reaction. Doc Gooden wasn't given the free pass like Josh has received. Steve Howe was routinely mocked. Keith Hernandez- not an issue. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Ramirez: killed. Andy Pettitte is a saint. The fact that some athletes are "forgiven" and others are not is the only thing that's baffling.

Miguel Cabera's domestic abuse doesn't seem to get mentioned in every Miggy thread because...home runs!

Or maybe people are smart enough to figure out that when police can't identify an aggressor in an incident between a 265-lb professional athlete and his wife - it wasn't him.

Or maybe people are smart enough to figure out that when police can't identify an aggressor in an incident between a 265-lb professional athlete and his wife - it wasn't him.

Perhaps, but it doesn't seem like all the accused get that benefit of the doubt. Didn't Julio Lugo's wife retract her entire domestic abuse statement and it was all proven to be a lie? Yet he wore that scarlet letter here for years.

Perhaps, but it doesn't seem like all the accused get that benefit of the doubt. Didn't Julio Lugo's wife retract her entire domestic abuse statement and it was all proven to be a lie? Yet he wore that scarlet letter here for years.

Whereas Bobby Cox never wore any letters of any kind.

Josh Hamilton doesn't need to apologize to me. Jose Mesa on the other hand . . . .

I still think it's pretty much about #2 [regardless of whether the comment is in jest] - race and religion is what makes Hamilton more forgiveable even if no one wants to say it out loud.

In addition, pissing off your local columnists probably brands a player for his career in a particular city - I can imagine a columnist railing on some foreign born star player for his 'lack of something' whether it's perceived lack of hustle or feeling some perceived slight from the columnist's part.

Unlike Hamilton, the foreign born athlete probably can't 'hold court' in the dugout with the columnists / beat writers and be as loose or at least be accomodating enough to give the columnists something they can use.

Ultimately if a columnist writes enough stories one way or the other - then it paints a picture of an athlete that fans swallow up regardless of reality.

I've never even been in a place where I needed to "forgive" an athlete.

So you've never been to Rhode Island?

Does an actor's boorish behavior or political views affect your ability to enjoy their art?

I was a Clint Eastwood fan even back when he was starring in films where he drove around in a pickup truck with an orangutan – so, yes :) Conversely, Eastwood can separate politics from art while making art: think of his evident admiration for Sean Penn and Tim Robbins as actors that led to both of them playing the roles of their lives in Mystic River.

If an artist starts using his/her medium to express heinous views, that's another thing. Ballplayers clearly don't have much of a chance to do that, so I rarely know anything about their politics, and it matters extremely little: I daresay I am rooting sometimes for players I wouldn't want to hold long political conversations with. The rhetoric of most ballparks is so jingoistic that it's generally hard to tell if someone promotes such views or not unless (like Carlos Delgado) he dissents. But I can't say I admire Delgado for that dissent. I'd probably love to have a conversation with him, but his actual political gestures were restrained and dignified, and minimal in their impact, at least IMO.

I'm a huge fan of the "classic" (1920's-1940's) age of movies, and contrary to stereotypes about "Hollywood liberals", the great majority of the big name stars of that era were conservative Republicans**, including nearly all of my favorites. BFD. It's not that I'm not glad to find actors or athletes who have a political view I agree with, but with the game on the line, what does politics have to do with anything?

**Gable, Stewart, Cooper, Grant, Stanwyck, Joan Crawford, William Powell, Dick Powell, W.C. Fields, Astaire, Crosby, Hope, Robert Taylor, etc. And many former liberals like Cagney, Sinatra and Reagan drifted steadily rightward as they aged.

I'm a huge fan of the "classic" (1920's-1940's) age of movies, and contrary to stereotypes about "Hollywood liberals", the great majority of the big name stars of that era were conservative Republicans**

As was very strongly brought home to me just a couple of weeks ago when I finished Greg Mitchell's Campaign of the Century, on Ulton Sinclair's failed bid for the Calfornia governorship in 1934. Darned good book, & probably pretty eye-opening for anyone who ever subscribed to the fiction of left-leaning (a) Hollywood studios &/or (b) newspapers.

As was very strongly brought home to me just a couple of weeks ago when I finished Greg Mitchell's Campaign of the Century, on Upton Sinclair's failed bid for the Calfornia governorship in 1934. Darned good book, & probably pretty eye-opening for anyone who ever subscribed to the fiction of left-leaning (a) Hollywood studios &/or (b) newspapers.

Check out the one of the anti-Sinclair newsreels that were financed by Hollywood producers and presented as "impartial" when they were shown in theaters all over the state. They almost put some of our more recent attack ads to shame in terms of sheer outrageousness and concealment of who and what was behind them.

Some people follow sports like they'd follow soap operas or reality TV, and (like Ray and Walt) I'm not one of them.

You guys follow it for its serious implications on world affairs?