BBTF.org/m/red_sox : Deal revived, Rockies acquire 2B Marco Scutaro from Red Sox

Sunday, May 19, 2013

Cafardo: Dustin Pedroia the best second baseman in MLB?

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posted 4 hours ago by Repoz to red sox | 8 comment(s)

Sweet spectroscopy! The argument is rolled out again!

It’s not surprising to hear what two scouts from each league, who both have watched a lot of the American League this year, say about Dustin Pedroia.

“Nobody is playing his position better in baseball right now than Pedroia,” said the AL scout. “He’s playing out of his mind. The plays he’s making — you just don’t see that stuff every day, but you see it with him every day. Honestly, I’m surprised he doesn’t get hurt ...

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1. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:44 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

So presumably a pitcher with the six million savings right? How much did they have to spend before that? Could they possibly take a shot at Hanley Ramirez (assuming he's truly disgruntled). Not really sure what they'd have to land him with as far as players though.

2. puck posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Wow. Nice trade, 2nd base was definitely a hole for the Rockies, though this seems schizophrenic from O'Dowd. W/Scutaro and Cuddyer, you'd think they were adding the final pieces for the championship run.

Does Boston have a shortstop? Are they dumping salary on the Rockies?

3. UnclePab posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Does Boston have a shortstop?

That's what I want to know. I don't like the idea of Punto or Aviles playing there every day, and Iglesias isn't ready. I'd expect there to be another move (or two) as I don't see any viable internal options.

4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:54 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Red Sox reportedly pursuing Roy Oswalt, presumably to play shortstop.

5. Live and don't learn. That's us. posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:57 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

From the ESPN article:

The Red Sox had exercised the $6 million option they held on Scutaro's contract for the 2012 season, in what Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington termed a "significant acquisition" just two days ago. But with the Red Sox still looking to improve their starting pitching depth, and Carl Crawford's wrist surgery leaving them thin in the outfield, the decision was made to move Scutaro.

So... The solution to having a lack of depth in pitching and the outfield is to open a black hole offensively at shortstop in exchange for a pitcher who had an ERA+ of 63 heading into last year? As a Yankee fan, I like this trade.

6. puck posted on January 21, 2012 at 07:59 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

With this trade, Denver Post beat writer talks up the Rockies'offseason this way:

With Scutaro in the fold, the Rockies will enter spring training with one of their deepest lineups in franchise history. He will join outfielder Michael Cuddyer and catcher Ramon Hernandez as key acquisitions, completely reshaping the lineup around Carlos Gonzalez and all-star cleanup hitter Troy Tulowitzki.

Scutaro should do better than what the Rockies had (half season of Ellis plus junk), and even a decrepit Blake will improve on the horror show of last year's collection of 3rd basemen. But Cuddyer is not a huge upgrade on Seth Smith, Hernandez won't improve on Iannetta. The bench is still weak with a bunch of AAA players trying to show they can hit in the majors.

I guess none of the old guys are blocking anyone, so it's not so bad. But if they're expecting a playoff team, I don't think this is gonna do it.

7. Greg (U)K posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:00 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I read the headline and thought "since when is Scutaro a 2B?".
Then I saw what team he had gone to.
Funny how the mere existence of Troy Tulowitzki can fundamentally change a man's identity.

8. puck posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:00 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Red Sox reportedly pursuing Roy Oswalt, presumably to play shortstop.

He does sort of have a shortstop's build.

9. Matt Waters posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:01 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Scutaro was horrifying, speaking as a Yankees fan. He had quality at-bats and seemed to own Mariano Rivera, for reasons unknown. As long as this isn't a prelude to reacquiring Hanley, I give the Red Sox a big thumbs up on this one.

10. Ray (RDP)

posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:04 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Does Boston have a shortstop?

That's what I want to know.

They have Jed Low... er, no.

11. Ray (RDP)

posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:09 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Scutaro was horrifying, speaking as a Yankees fan. He had quality at-bats and seemed to own Mariano Rivera, for reasons unknown.

I believe the reasons are "anything can happen in 20 PA."

But hopefully this is a prelude to acquiring Hanley.

12. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:10 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

There's a method to the madness here, but it seems to involve cornering the market on backups and emergency guys. I got ridiculed here for suggesting that the Red Sox are punting on 2012...at the very least, they seem to be holding serve until next offseason. I'll be surprised if they get Oswalt, now.

13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:13 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

So... The solution to having a lack of depth in pitching and the outfield is to open a black hole offensively at shortstop in exchange for a pitcher who had an ERA+ of 63 heading into last year? As a Yankee fan, I like this trade.

Concur.

It's a pure salary dump. Mortensen has a 1:1 BB:K ratio in the bigs. He's worthless.

I got ridiculed here for suggesting that the Red Sox are punting on 2012...at the very least, they seem to be holding serve until next offseason.

Sure as hell looks like it.

14. Textbook Editor posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:18 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Yeah, unless this is some kind of move for Hanley, I'm not seeing the sense. They don't have a guy who can play 130+ games at SS. Punto at SS everyday would be... just godawful. Aviles has the ability to fake it in LF and play other positions--he's your utility guy.

Unless this is to make Iglasias the starting SS in a sink-or-swim move, I'm baffled by this. Just baffled... And I'm not convinced Oswalt won't get roughed up a bit moving to the AL East. I'm really hoping this is a precursor to a Hanley move.

15. pyrite posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:20 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

ZiPS projections (as Red Sox):

Player            B    PO  Age     BA  OBP  SLG   G  AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR RBI  BB  SO  SB  CS OPS+ DEFENSE
Marco Scutaro     R    SS   36   .277 .339 .390 123 477  65 132  28   1   8  51  45  53   6   3   93 AV/85
Mike Aviles       R    SS   31   .273 .301 .417 115 422  52 115  23   4  10  49  17  62  12   6   88 AV/103
Jed Lowrie        B    SS   28   .252 .316 .406  86 286  34  72  19   2   7  38  28  57   1   1   89 FR/108 

If it's just Scutaro to Aviles, that's not a huge downgrade. Aviles looks perfectly cromulent -- looks like they can spend $6 million more effectively elsewhere.

16. Textbook Editor posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:21 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Ugh:

Neither team has confirmed the deal, but The Globe's Nick Cafardo tweeted that the deal was "likely," according to a Red Sox source, and that the team would replace Scutaro by platooning Mike Aviles and Nick Punto at short.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an Aviles/Punto platoon is not going to win you any WS.

Gut feeling: Blech.

17. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:22 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Ugh, this sucks. In theory there could be another shoe to drop, but this looks like Henry and Werner have set a strict salary limit. This move frees up money to acquire a pitcher, but it's a 1-2 win downgrade to the lineup. don't like it.

What sucks, to be clear, is that this move is very strong evidence that the Sox have a set salary limit that Cherington has to work around. I would have hoped he'd have a little wiggle room.

18. TVerik posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:22 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Scutaro was horrifying, speaking as a Yankees fan. He had quality at-bats and seemed to own Mariano Rivera, for reasons unknown.

I believe the reasons are "anything can happen in 20 PA."

I agree with the previous point. Scutaro seemed to have good ABs when it meant the most, particularly late and close. Since Bill Mueller, I don't remember the Sox putting a guy on the field that was guaranteed to hit a single every time the Yankees desperately needed an out.

Didn't Scoot hit a big HR against Rivera as an A?

19. Nasty Nate posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:23 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

So... The solution to having a lack of depth in pitching and the outfield is to open a black hole offensively at shortstop in exchange for a pitcher who had an ERA+ of 63 heading into last year? As a Yankee fan, I like this trade.

Concur.

It's a pure salary dump. Mortensen has a 1:1 BB:K ratio in the bigs. He's worthless

No, not a pure salary dump - he adds to the pitching depth which everyone knows that the Sox need. I don't really know why the original poster quoted his ERA+ heading into last year. That 36 innings is an even smaller sample size than the 58 innings he had last year with a 117 ERA+.

I have no idea what the Sox are doing at SS...

20. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:35 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

this move is very strong evidence that the Sox have a set salary limit that Cherington has to work around.

If it's true that a hard salary limit is the problem, then what was the boon that allowed Lucchino et al to spend more than usual for 2011?

21. Xander posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:38 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Ugh, this sucks. In theory there could be another shoe to drop, but this looks like Henry and Werner have set a strict salary limit. This move frees up money to acquire a pitcher, but it's a 1-2 win downgrade to the lineup. don't like it.

What sucks, to be clear, is that this move is very strong evidence that the Sox have a set salary limit that Cherington has to work around. I would have hoped he'd have a little wiggle room.

And that strict salary limit is almost surely the projected luxury cap threshold.

Cherington is biting the bullet for Theo's mistakes. You can't miss on two big contracts in consecutive years without repercussions. The edict is surely, "Reset the luxury tax now so we don't get hit hard when it goes up to 40%." There's no point in going marginally over the limit this season if it's going to significantly handcuff you in the future.

22. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:39 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If it's true that a hard salary limit is the problem, then what was the boon that allowed Lucchino et al to spend more than usual for 2011?

They didn't. The Red Sox spent the same amount of money in 2011 as in 2010. The question is how they had so much more money to spend in 2010, and why after the big jump in 2010 they haven't found any more money. It looks like they have about the same amount of money to spend for 2012, but unlike in '10 and '11, they aren't shedding enough salary and they have too much salary deadweight to be able to fill out the roster as they want without cutting elsewhere.

23. Live and don't learn. That's us. posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:40 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't really know why the original poster quoted his ERA+ heading into last year. That 36 innings is an even smaller sample size than the 58 innings he had last year with a 117 ERA+.

This is a fair point. I knew when I wrote my post that it was a little misleading. On the other hand, Clayton has a career minor league ERA of 4.87 (including 5.26 in triple A ball) and even last year in his 58.1 good major league innings he only struck out 4.6 batters per nine innings while walking 3.7 batters per nine innings. So while 36.2 innings is clearly not a big enough sample size to draw conclusions, I thought that it got across my general point that Clayton's track record is really, really bad without writing enough words to compromise my snarky reaction to the trade.

24. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:43 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

There's no point in going marginally over the limit this season if it's going to significantly handcuff you in the future.

But how will it handcuff them? In 2011, the Red Sox had their highest luxury tax bill ever - $3.4M, paid at a 30% rate. If they had to pay at a 50% rate, they'd have owed $5.5M, and if they had to pay at a 16% rate, they'd have owed $2M. We're talking about just a few million in difference. Even if they doubled the amount they went over the cap, they'd be saving only $7M.

The downgrade from Scutaro to a Punto/Aviles platoon is 1-2 wins. If they're costing themselves 1-2 wins now to save $7M in the future, that's a bad tradeoff. The only way it makes sense is if the Sox plan to significantly exceed the luxury tax limit, by at least 3x what they've exceeded it in the past.

25. karlmagnus posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:45 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Looks to me as though Henry has run out of money. Hedge fund business very iffy, and Henry's haven't been successful of late. Not enough $$$ to manage both Liverpool and Sox vanity projects properly.

26. pyrite posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

From 2008 to 2011:

PLAYER  WAR  PA   WAR/600PA
Punto    7.6 1271 3.59
Scutaro 12.7 2412 3.16 

27. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

And Clayton Mortensen sucks. He's never been good in the high minors. Never, in four tries.

2008: 140 IP, 4.96 ERA, 105/64 K/BB
2009: 137 IP, 4.39 ERA, 100/48 K/BB
2010: 165 IP, 4.25 ERA, 112/53 K/BB
2011: 64 IP, 9.42 ERA, 54/29 K/BB

Mortensen's a waste of a 40-man roster spot.

28. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:50 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

PLAYER WAR PA WAR/600PA
Punto 7.6 1271 3.59
Scutaro 12.7 2412 3.16

Yeah, this is the one case for the trade I can imagine - that Little Nicky Punto projects as an average baseball player or better, as the strong side of a regular platoon. That's something I'm not ready to sign on to.

29. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on January 21, 2012 at 08:53 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Thanks, MCoA.

30. Nasty Nate posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Looks to me as though Henry has run out of money. Hedge fund business very iffy, and Henry's haven't been successful of late. Not enough $$$ to manage both Liverpool and Sox vanity projects properly.

hahaha you've been writing this every year for 8 years

31. Mattbert posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:14 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If it's true that a hard salary limit is the problem, then what was the boon that allowed Lucchino et al to spend more than usual for 2011?

FSG hadn't sunk $150MM into a dazzling array of mediocrity to adorn Liverpool FC yet.

32. greenback

posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:19 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

WAR/600PA

Punto had about twenty different injuries last year starting from the first week or two of spring training. He's a nice, little ballplayer, who apparently is popular in the clubhouse because he rips off teammates' shirts, but I wouldn't count on him staying healthy.

33. Darren

posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:21 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

The numbers don't bear this out, but Scutaro looked absolutely terrible last year. They might have decided that simply wasn't up to playing ss anymore. If that was their evaluation, then the Punto acquisition makes some sense too.

If the Sod are coming close to hitting their budget, then the really tough call was Ortiz. They probably could have gotten a much cheaper dh.

34. Textbook Editor posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:22 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

God damnit, that stupid-ass Andy Carroll transfer has forced the Red Sox to pinch pennies. This is maddening.

35. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:28 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Darren - I kind of agree with you but why pick up his option then? No reason you can't sign Pujto then anyway.

Generally though there is more doom and gloom than this warrants. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll be shocked if the Sox don't announce another move in the next 48 hours. I feel like I can't evaluate this until that happens.

36. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:30 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Wasn't Mortensen on waivers not long ago? Even for a pure salary dump I think the Sox could have done better than this.

37. Jim Wisinski

posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Seems like this means that the team the Red Sox have on Opening Day with is pretty much the team they've got for the season (counting minor leaguers). If acquiring pitching or outfield depth requires them to trade the starting SS and his salary then I can't imagine Cherington would be allowed to add more than marginal salary through trade mid-season.

38. Der_K posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:34 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I thought Scutaro would fetch more than this as well.

I haven't looked in the mechanics of the new cba via a vis Boston and the tax yet but - wasn't the CW that this is their reset year?

39. Nate posted on January 21, 2012 at 09:56 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If you want to go with the Aviles/Punto platoon and use the Scutaro money to buy Oswalt, that's understandable. I don't think it's hard to make the case that Oswalt in the rotation, with Aceves in the pen and as SP insurance to go with A/P is better than Scutaro/Aceves in the rotation/crappy RP.

That said, this is still an awful trade. Scutaro has surplus value at his salary, and they dealt him for squat. At least go get a high upside lottery ticket arm in A-ball.

40. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on January 21, 2012 at 10:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If the Sod are coming close to hitting their budget, then the really tough call was Ortiz.

I think they realized (rightly) that Ortiz's value is just as much about marketing as it is performance. A lot of the team's identity would go away if he weren't back.

41. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on January 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

That said, this is still an awful trade. Scutaro has surplus value at his salary, and they dealt him for squat. At least go get a high upside lottery ticket arm in A-ball.

Morosi is tweeting that the Sox are "intensifying" their chase for Oswalt (MLBTR). I suspect that the Sox acted quickly to make sure they could strike quickly if they could get Oswalt to agree.

42. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on January 21, 2012 at 10:07 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I suspect that the Sox acted quickly to make sure they could strike quickly if they could get Oswalt to agree.

I get to be full of #### again if this happens.

43. Nate posted on January 21, 2012 at 10:13 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Morosi is tweeting that the Sox are "intensifying" their chase for Oswalt (MLBTR). I suspect that the Sox acted quickly to make sure they could strike quickly if they could get Oswalt to agree.

That's some pretty poor planning, if so.

44. Walt Davis posted on January 21, 2012 at 11:28 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Now back to the Rox and this "one of the deepest lineups" in franchise history:

C Hernndez 36
1B Helton 38
2B Scutaro 36
3B Blake 38
RF Cuddyer 33

WTF are they thinking?

45. puck posted on January 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

WTF are they thinking?

I don't know if this is their attempt to field a reasonable team this season without blocking Rosario (c) or Arenado (3b) or if they think they can win this season by doing this? The Cuddyer deal was the head-scratcher for me since $34 million is a lot of money for this team and he doesn't appear to be that large an upgrade.

They are all big on "changing the clubhouse culture," too. That's why Stewart, Iannetta and Smith are gone. They're ok w/losing, don't throw enough bats in the dugout, etc.

46. joeysdadjoe posted on January 21, 2012 at 11:45 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

So the Red Sox traded a legit SS in a clear salary dump so they could play a guy (Aviles) who couldn't take at bats from Yuni Betancourt in KC. Granted KC didn't know what to do with the guy but they knew he wasn't a SS.

47. booond posted on January 21, 2012 at 11:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Never question how smart Theo is. He won with a huge piece of Duquette's team and got out as this team hit the banana peel.

48. Dale Sams posted on January 21, 2012 at 11:58 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Hard salary cap?

LF McDonald
CF Ellsbury
RF Sweeney
3B Youk
SS Punto
2B Pedroia
1B AGon
DH Ortiz
C Salty

Sox finish April 10-12, kiss sellout streak goodbye during A's series.

49. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes posted on January 22, 2012 at 12:58 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Didn't Scoot hit a big HR against Rivera as an A?

Yes.
Scutaro v. Rivera ended a nothing game, April 15 2007, but it was by far the wildest conclusion to a baseball game I've ever witnessed in person: Marco, then hitting .050, came to bat with two outs & two runners on, bottom of the ninth, A's down 4-2; he took a called strike, fouled one off, and then hit a long low drive off the left-field foul pole to win the game, 5-4. I was sitting down the 3b line, and I feel like I can remember the whole stadium holding its breath while the ball was in the air, and then EXPLODING as it rattled off that fair-territory fence stuff. Just amazing.

50. Nasty Nate posted on January 22, 2012 at 01:00 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Never question how smart Theo is. He won with a huge piece of Duquette's team and got out as this team hit the banana peel.

haha insane. The Sox are in a better position now than when Theo inherited the team.

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Cafardo: Dustin Pedroia the best second baseman in MLB?

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