Sounds like Dusty doesn't have much if a ##### here. Not like Arizona did it just for the hell of it.

Sounds like Dusty doesn't have much if a ##### here. Not like Arizona did it just for the hell of it.

Well, there was nothing preventing the Diamondbacks from playing the game with DH rules then opting not to use one. It would put them at a competitive disadvantage, sure, but I can't see why they'd care about that in a ST game.

Kirk should just say a silent prayer: thank you, Lord, for giving me the pretext never to allow Dusty Baker to touch me again.

Ok, I know I've seen ST games where one team used the DH and the other didn't. Can't remember if it was the home team that used the pitcher, but as stated above that's legal. Too much of ST is gentleman's agreements. Nothing stops teams from going 20 innings in ST, the teams agree at the end of 10 or sometimes give the home team an extra at bat when they're ahead in the 9th. If ST needs to be a DH league then that should be codified, hopefully the D-Backs aren't banking on McCarthy's bat.

That said, if its home team picks its home team picks, get Choo his ABs next time your home.

Well, there was nothing preventing the Diamondbacks from playing the game with DH rules then opting not to use one. It would put them at a competitive disadvantage, sure, but I can't see why they'd care about that in a ST game.

This would be the typical move by anyone with typical professional courtesy. Just a dick move to deny the other team the use of the DH in a freaking Spring Training game if they need it to get a guy some ABs.

Well, there was nothing preventing the Diamondbacks from playing the game with DH rules then opting not to use one.

Maybe nobody thought of that.

I would imagine that the common practice is if the visiting NL manager asks to use DH rules, the home team generally grants it (since they can still choose whether they want to employ a DH, and probably want the courtesy extended to them when the situation is reversed. In a non-competitive game like this, there's no benefit to rejecting the request). Whether Gibson breaking that protocol warrants a handshake snub is another matter, but we know Dusty's pretty good at holding a grudge (a trait he shares with fans of his previous club).

Neither manager acquitted himself well here.

#8

Agreed. Gibson would seem to care a bit much for this game, or is just trying to raise Baker's ire. Baker, however should have just taken the high ground, shaken his hand and walked off the bigger man.

Men playing children's game act childish. Meh.

McCarthy's certainly not going to pitch long enough to get more than one AB, is he? Two at the absolute most. And that one AB is going to help him learn to hit more than some extra batting practice? Arizona may have been within their rights but I can see why Dusty would think it was wrong.

I am not actually advocating for this (I love the guy) but given McCarthy's history, it would have been hilarious if Dusty had ordered a brushback pitch to him.

It looks like McCarthy did indeed get one AB and grounded out on the first pitch.

This was a Spring Training game, right? Why is Baker so upset?

Baker overreacted, but he's got a point. If getting McCarthy one AB is really that big a deal, there was absolutely no reason Gibson couldn't have just let him hit for himself instead of using the DH, and there's no way he wasn't aware of that.

This was a Spring Training game, right? Why is Baker so upset?

Because it was a spring training game, so there was no reason for Gibson to refuse Baker's request.

This was a Spring Training game, right? Why is Baker so upset?

Probably because Dusty, having managed in the NL for 20 years, knows there's absolutely no upside for the home manager to reject the request, and doing so is, as Dan notes, just dickish.

Look at this sitaution here: The Diamondbacks cited reason for not wanting the DH was to get McCarthy some looks at live pitching. Fine. But if you opt to use the DH, rather than not, you could get McCarthy two or three at bats instead of just the one he was almost certain to get by playing under NL rules.

If you use the DH, you can start someone in the DH hole, then lift him for McCarthy at some point in the game, letting McCarthy get some ABs. Then, instead of letting McCarthy pitch the first 2 innings, you designate him to pitch the last two (and you can ensure 8-9 are the last two by telling Dusty that you'll agree to the DH rule if he agrees to end the game after the ninth inning), removing the DH from your lineup when you shift your DH to a field position. Everyone wins.

Gibson didn't just limit Dusty's options, he limited his own.

Dusty has always been rude, I remember the time he refused to shake hands with Moises Alou.

The DH is an abomination, so Gibson's clearly in the right here.

As Alfred Hitchcock once told the hyper-serious Ingrid Bergman: "Ingrid, it's only a movie."

#16, so true. That was right around the time he yanked Mark Prior and Kerry Wood's right arms off. So it cuts both ways.

Then, instead of letting McCarthy pitch the first 2 innings, you designate him to pitch the last two (and you can ensure 8-9 are the last two by telling Dusty that you'll agree to the DH rule if he agrees to end the game after the ninth inning), removing the DH from your lineup when you shift your DH to a field position

By the 8th inning, the Reds might be fielding an AA line-up. That's why you seldom see a team use its closer in the 9th inning in early ST -- more often than not they follow the starter to pitch against the other team's better players. Seem like Baker could have alleviated some of the difficulty by pinch hitting for the pitcher. Much about nothing.

Aren't there Dback hitters that could use some at-bats? If I'm the manager of an NL team, I'm requesting this all spring training long, if only to get my hitters in better game shape and/or take a longer look at guys I'm undecided about.

By the 8th inning, the Reds might be fielding an AA line-up. That's why you seldom see a team use its closer in the 9th inning in early ST -- more often than not they follow the starter to pitch against the other team's better players.

If that's important to you, then you simply opt not to use a DH yourself. But there's no non-spite based reason to turn down a request from the visiting team in Spring Training. You can criticize Baker for the handshake snub, but Gibson was undeniably in the wrong here.

Since they fool around with the rules in Spring Training anyway, why not ask to let McCarthy stay in as DH after he pitches?

Gibson is a dick. Dusty too.

Gibson had options (as stated above by simply opting to use DH but have McCarthy hit anyways)

Dusty had options (Shake his hand and/or have Choo PH)

They're both childish pricks.

Dusty has always been rude, I remember the time he refused to shake hands with Moises Alou.

I wouldn't shake my hands with Moises Alou either, though maybe this is your point.