Quick Homer, can you name which team won the Pacific Coast League title this year? Because winning the NL Central is analogous.

On the downside of all of those interesting potential story lines, the Reds are still from Cincinnati.

Throw no hitter and then rip your home fans. Smooth, guy.

Why aren't the Reds drawing more? A traditional baseball town, neweer ballbark, very good young team team. I know it takes a little to build these things up but they are barely drawing better than the Mets with a much better team.

Maybe Bailey s hoping they draw better because more revenue would let them keep the team together.

Why aren't the Reds drawing more?

Because the Rust Belt is broke?

Because the Rust Belt is broke?

Except that Bailey was pointing out that there were 34,000 people in Pittsburgh and only 20K in Cincinnati.

And honestly? I know we're supposed to think these sorts of outburts are just gauche, but I kind of like the way Bailey has the back of his teammates here. He's obviously very proud, not necessarily of himself, but of all the guys he plays with. And he wants that to be recognized by others. I think it's a nice sentiment actually.

Except that Bailey was pointing out that there were 34,000 people in Pittsburgh and only 20K in Cincinnati.

Pittsburgh is no longer a manufacturing/Rust Belt city. Cincy could learn a lot from the revitalization of downtown Pittsburgh.

Couple of points:

1. The Nats are in a blingier market, have blingier players, are a better story from the MSM POV, and are in the same league.
2. Yes, the national media and many people in the region remain very focused on the Big Red Machine, 36 years after their last WS title. The BRM is arguably the most famous small-market team, historically speaking, in any major US sport (along with the Mustache Gang and the '72 Dolphins, if you count Miami as a small market).

As far as the attendance, the Reds have wrapped it up, and this is the second division title in three years, so it is understandable that the fans aren't superexcited about the team this second. And of course the economy may have something to do with it.

All that said, while Bailey would have been wiser not to say this stuff, I don't see it as a big deal, and I see it as understandable.

Because the Rust Belt is broke?

The majority of fans were outsourced to India. Now they follow cricket.

“No one’s even paid attention,” Bailey said. “. . . You don’t hear about that on ESPN.

So he's equating ESPN with "no one". I can get behind that thinking.

So he's equating ESPN with "no one". I can get behind that thinking.

Doesn't that mean he thinks ESPN is everyone? BTW, thanks for the info about the economic situation. It's the most obvious.

Nobody’s paying attention

Welcome to the Midwest, kid.

The Reds drew 2.3MM this year, up about 6% over last season and just missing the GABP record set in its inaugural season. That's right in the middle of the pack (15th). Not great for a 95 win team, but it's also one of the four or five smallest markets in the game. It's also a bit more than Pittsburgh (2.0), though they're still looking up at Milwaukee (2.7) and St. Louis (3.1).

Given the Votto extension, ownership must be bullish on attendance continuing to tick up. And a big cable deal whenever the current one comes up.

The Reds drew 2.3MM this year, up about 6% over last season and just missing the GABP record set in its inaugural season. That's right in the middle of the pack (15th). Not great for a 95 win team, but it's also one of the four or five smallest markets in the game. It's also a bit more than Pittsburgh (2.0), though they're still looking up at Milwaukee (2.7) and St. Louis (3.1).

Until all teams are in the top half, MLB has an attendance problem.

what's not understood about cincy is that all the money is concentrated with folks with work at proctor, great american and the like while the reds fans are blue collar cincinnati and kentuckians

the reds have priced themselves at the edge of what those folks can afford and even though ohio has bounced back a bit folks are pinching pennies

my relatives are down there and everyone is fine sitting at home watching the reds on foxsports.

Anyone who's fine listening to Thom Brennamann needs to get their life right.

Quick Homer, can you name which team won the Pacific Coast League title this year?

99% sure it was Reno.

It's typical Reds whining. I agree with the whining, but it's like whining is built into the genetics of Reds players since Dusty Baker has taken over. (and their announcing team)

It's typical Reds whining. I agree with the whining, but it's like whining is built into the genetics of Reds players since Dusty Baker has taken over. (and their announcing team)

Thanks for the input, fan of Team Kettle.

Was gonna say, [19] is quite rich considering the source.

Was gonna say, [19] is quite rich considering the source.

When was the last time that a Cardinal player, manager, coach, or even announcer publicly complained about stuff outside of the confines of the game? Fans complaining isn't the same thing. You don't see Cardinals bad mouthing the fans of their own team or even the other team. Meanwhile you have Brandon Phillips bad mouthing a city, you have the announcers creating fictional events to complain about the actions of the other teams coaches, and now you have their own players complaining about their own city.

20 & 21: What part of cardsFANBOY did you miss?

We've seen a LOT of this though, haven't we? Is it just me, or has there been a lot more whining this year? Like Perez in Cle, etc?

When was the last time that a Cardinal player, manager, coach, or even announcer publicly complained about stuff outside of the confines of the game?

LaRussa complains about game moved to Sunday Night baseball.

Cards complain about 3:15 game time

LaRussa complains about Miller Park scoreboards

LaRussa complains Obama never called him

Cardinals lodge protest over bullpen mounds.

Tony LaRussa sues Twitter.

Cardinals allege sign-stealing.

Chris Carpener complains about smoke from fireworks

BOOMFACE.

AH HA HA HA. sues twitter. amazing.

LaRussa complains about game moved to Sunday Night baseball.

From the link here is the public quote... "I'm saying this a little bit tongue in cheek: It wouldn't bother me to disrupt that home run event because ESPN just pulled a clueless move," La Russa said. "I don't know how they can do that. Any team playing on the West Coast, why would you do that? Do you know what time these guys are getting in?"

Cards complain about 3:15 game time

From that link, no quote, you have to go to another link within that link to get a quote, which is . "From the second inning on, as soon as that shadow goes from behind the catcher to in front of the plate you'd better be on top and score some runs. Because after that it's pretty over."

LaRussa complains about Miller Park scoreboards

And his complaint was within the confines of the game.

LaRussa complains Obama never called him

Just because the headline says it's a complaint, doesn't make is so. Stating a fact is not a complaint and the only part quoted was

"We never did get a call." after noting that the White House first called to get his number.

Cardinals lodge protest over bullpen mounds.

Within the confines of the game.

Tony LaRussa sues Twitter.

Not really a complaint.

Cardinals allege sign-stealing.

Within the confines of the game.

Chris Carpener complains about smoke from fireworks

I absolutely knew this was going to be one of those listed. Carpenter never complained publically about it. It was the Reds announcers whining about him, following the instructions of the umpires to hold up, that they accused it of being complaining.

To the best of my knowledge, Carpenter never once publicly complained about the fireworks. It's another instance of people putting words in other peoples mouth.



So the extent of your evidence about the Cardinals complaining is that they have disliked it when their playing time has been screwed with by national broadcasts.

Tony LaRussa sues Twitter.

Not really a complaint.

Oh, GTFO. Filing a lawsuit is about as "complaining" as it gets.

cfb, you're just embarrassing yourself.

For the record, the post you made that started this had no reference to "confines of the game." That was something you added later after getting understandably called out.

Oyyy...

I generally try to root for the senior circuit, but there is no NL team I really like this year... I suppose the Nats are the team I hate least.

Tony LaRussa sues Twitter.
Not really a complaint.
Oh, GTFO. Filing a lawsuit is about as "complaining" as it gets.

Look, just because the paperwork in filing a lawsuit is referred to as a "complaint" does not make it complaining, okay?

So the extent of your evidence about the Cardinals complaining is that they have disliked it when their playing time has been screwed with by national broadcasts.

And tons of stuff within the confines of the game. If you are asserting that the Cardinals have never complained about their fans like Bailey does about Reds fans, then yes, you are correct and you can hold your head up high about that. The Cardinals have complained about virtually every other aspect of the game other than that though which is why they're known throughout baseball as the biggest whiners in the league.

Mostly I'm saying that the Cardinals don't "publicly" complain or whine to the press about issues, in the way that the Reds do. Or that the Cardinals don't bad mouth the fans of either their own team or other teams in the same way that the Reds do.

For the record, the post you made that started this had no reference to "confines of the game." That was something you added later after getting understandably called out.

You are right, but I did post the comment about confines of the game prior to the list of "links" where Cardinals were supposedly complaining.

. The Cardinals have complained about virtually every other aspect of the game other than that though which is why they're known throughout baseball as the biggest whiners in the league.

and yet that list of complaints that was posted really didn't have any quotes in which the players or coaches were complaining, It was the writers interpretation of the Cardinals thoughts based upon preconceived notions.

Quick Homer, can you name which team won the Pacific Coast League title this year?

Reno. They beat Omaha.

How is Omaha in the Pacific Coast League? This is worse than the Big East having Boise State.

I suppose the Nats are the team I hate least

Yes! Another unqualified endorsement!

how is this not a quote? how is this not a complaint?


Slugging first baseman Albert Pujols was voiceful in his distaste for the late afternoon start and went to the Cardinals organization about moving the late afternoon games to a different time slot. Here is just a sampling of what Pujols told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch after Monday's loss.

"I can never remember a game that bad. From the second inning on, as soon as that shadow goes from behind the catcher to in front of the plate you'd better be on top and score some runs. Because after that it's pretty over."

"I don't want anybody to read it wrong. I don't want to disrespect the job (Wolf) did. He did a pretty good job. He kept the ball down. It wasn't fair for us to see.

or this:

Pujols, who will be a free agent this offseason, explained that's tough to play as afternoon gives way to evening due to the mix of shadows and sunshine.

"We've been talking (about the shadows) all year long, and there's nothing you can do about it," he said. "Maybe if we were the New York Yankees maybe we would have played an 8 o'clock game today."

This is not a complaint:

"I'm saying this a little bit tongue in cheek: It wouldn't bother me to disrupt that home run event because ESPN just pulled a clueless move," La Russa said. "I don't know how they can do that. Any team playing on the West Coast, why would you do that? Do you know what time these guys are getting in?"

The usually courteous St. Louis fans showered Greene with a chorus of loud boos as he stood near second base following the play. Asked about their negative reaction, Greene said, "Then don't come to the game. Just cheer for your team. That's all I can say about that."

Struggles continue for Cards' Greene

I will ##### and moan if "This is not a complaint" becomes a site meme.

The usually courteous St. Louis fans showered Greene with a chorus of loud boos as he stood near second base following the play. Asked about their negative reaction, Greene said, "Then don't come to the game. Just cheer for your team. That's all I can say about that."


Struggles continue for Cards' Greene

Finally, the first example of what I would consider legitimate whining from a Cardinal.

Finally, the first example of what I would consider legitimate whining from a Cardinal.

.....wow.....really?!

The rest of it was whining of a completely illegitimate variety. And in Missouri, they know the difference between legitimate and not legitimate.

The rest of it was whining of a completely illegitimate variety. And in Missouri, they know the difference between legitimate and not legitimate.

Some of it was legitimate issues. Example, someone is using your name and posting comments on facebook, saying we left chicago without having a pitcher die on us or a dui, is a legitimate issue. You have to publicize that it wasn't actually you doing that. I don't see how that would qualify as whining. It's not the same as imagining a big ass conspiracy to keep your pitcher out of the all star game, or going to twitter to bad mouth a city...you know actual actions that Red players have done. (although to be fair, the latter was over sensitive by the writers/fans in St Louis)

Other of those links was a question/answer about Obama not wishing you congrats...it's not like TLR went to the press to say that Obama didn't call. Or it's not like imagining that Carpenter is complaining about fireworks, when it never ever happened. (the event in question is during a game the Reds shot off some fireworks, there was a cloud of smoke, Carpenter looked frustrated, the homeplate umpire told Carpenter to wait until the smoke cleared, smoke cleared, and Carpenter then went on to pitch....nothing was ever mentioned to the press about the stadium or issues with the fireworks other than an explanation of what happened) Other example listed was the Cardinals saying the pitcher pitched really great, and that it's tough to hit when the shadows are where they were. I don't see what is controvesial about that. It is tough to hit if the ball is coming out of the shadows....meanwhile the Cardinals still gave props to the pitcher. Statement of fact as part of an excuse is annoying, but it's not whining. Nobody was saying the Brewers set up the light to give them an advantage. (I will say that the scoreboard issue is arguably whining, even though the Brewers did change their procedures after the complaint, it's debateable whether it was a real issue or not)