BBTF.org/m/reds : MLBTR: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo in three-team deal

Thursday, May 23, 2013

Daugherty: Brandon Phillips has been Reds’ MVP so far

(cincinnati.com)

posted 15 hours ago by Repoz to reds | 17 comment(s)

Ow. Ow. Ow. Mouthbreathers/Mindbreathers now on full tilt boogie replay. (better now)

In some ways, we take Phillips for granted. Especially his glove. I’ve watched the Reds actively since I arrived here in ’88. Bret Boone was good. Pokey Reese could be spectacular, but not always steady. No one has been in BP’s universe. (Nor in the league. How he has only 3 Gold Gloves is a black hole mystery. Darwin Barney: Hahaha.)

But his offense is the MV reason he is his team’s best player now, ...

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1. SG posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

This seems like an awful trade for Arizona.

2. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Arizona must really love Didi's glove. Doesn't Kevin Towers have a really good trade history?

3. Steve Parris, Je t'aime posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I like this trade for Cincinnati, but it's interesting that they're turning their back on OF defense with either Choo or Bruce moving to CF.

4. BourbonSamurai, vassal of the Harpsburg Empire posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

this seems like a killer deal for the reds from my limited perspective

5. Repoz

posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

A Didi con job.

6. robinred

posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:52 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Cool. I like Choo.

7. Harveys Wallbangers

posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

the reds 2012 was based on defense and pitching. all they needed was for votto to play 150 games and the offense will be better.

walt surprises me with this deal

8. ShoeGrit posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:57 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Dayton Moore, move over. There is a new Sherrif in town and his name is The Gunslinger !!

9. ShoeGrit posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

#Dbacks Towers on Gregorious “He’s athletic. He reminded me of a young Derek Jeter.”

— Steve Gilbert (@SteveGilbertMLB) December 12, 2012

Well...other than the fact that one is all bat no glove and the other is all glove no bat....um...yeah....good comp.

10. Smyly Smile (Walewander) posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

WTF is Towers smoking?

11. zonk posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Jeebus...

Is it legal for two GMs to hold a third GM down and steal his lunch money, then divide the spoils between them?

12. JJ1986 posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

So, if he didn't want Cliff Pennington to play SS, why did Towers give up value for him?

13. Derb posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Great trade for Cleveland and Cincinnati, bad trade for the D-Backs. I like Didi, but he shouldn't the main piece you get back in a trade like this.

14. Esoteric throws a 'hard slider' posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Biggest winner of this trade: Dayton Moore.

15. ShoeGrit posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

@mlbdepthcharts:
Kevin Towers has traded Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers, Bryan Shaw for 2 SS’s that can’t hit, Tony Sipp, and Lars Anderson. #Dbacks

Sigh......

16. Yeaarrgghhhh posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

This is a FAR worse trade than Shields/Myers.

17. BourbonSamurai, vassal of the Harpsburg Empire posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

this is very confusing and can't be right. I feel like the dbacks have been 3 card monte'd.

18. Esoteric throws a 'hard slider' posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

This is a FAR worse trade than Shields/Myers.

Hence #14.

Somewhere Brandon McCarthy is channeling David Byrne and saying to himself "MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE?"

19. RJ in TO posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:33 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Biggest winner of this trade: Dayton Moore.

This is extremely true.

20. Brian White posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:35 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

It appears that Drew Stubbs is also involved, going to Cleveland in this trade. Reds are getting $3.5m in cash from the Indians.

Link

It's sort of mentioned in the article - they drop Stubbs' name in there at one random spot, but don't list him among the acquisitions.

21. Harveys Wallbangers

posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:37 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

so the reds get paid by the indians to scr8w the diamondbacks?

that jsut seems......unseemly

22. ShoeGrit posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Jay Jaffe?@jay_jaffe
In their quest to accumulate light-hitting shortstops at any cost, the Diamondbacks have traded Justin Upton to 1997 for Pokey Reese.

23. JRVJ posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.

24. ShoeGrit posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

D Backs Owners says Bauer needs to Grow up and Mature

and

Follow up in November

This kind of stuff in public REALLY helps trade value, huh ?

25. Red Menace posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

This nicely Dusty-proofs the lineup. If Choo leads off the difference between him and Stubbs is about as great as you can do with marginal lineup shuffling value creation.

26. Esoteric throws a 'hard slider' posted on December 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

so the reds get paid by the indians to scr8w the diamondbacks?

that jsut seems......unseemly

And you thought prostitution was illegal...

27. Poster Nutbag posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:03 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.

Agreed....I can't peg anyone's ####### market value anymore!

28. vortex of dissipation posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think Choo is a fine hitter, with the type of OBP skills the Reds need. But I'm confused as to where he'd play. Jay Bruce is a fixture in right, and the Reds just re-signed Ryan Ludwick to play left on Monday. Joey Votto is at first, and he obviously isn't moving. Supposedly Choo is going to play center field, but he's not a center fielder. The Mariners played him in center for nine games there when he came up, and he was awful. And that was seven years ago. He's played exactly one game in center since 2006. So if the Reds are counting on him to play center field, they're being overly optomistic.

29. hokieneer posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Choo
Phillips
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hannigan
Cozart

I like that. Choo fits in perfectly. Not sure about Bruce/Choo playing CF. Honestly I'm a little terrified. Bruce did play more CF than RF in the minors, and played in CF some his rookie year. That was a while ago. In road interleague, Ludwick can slide to DH with Heisey playing CF.

Didn't want to lose Didi, but he will likely never hit enough to earn an everyday job. Of course Cozart isn't exactly a Silver Slugger.

WIsh Stubbs the best of luck. He needed out of Cincinnati. If he ever had a chance to recover and be productive, it wasn't going to be in Cincinnati.

30. andrewberg posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:10 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

When I saw these rumors floating around, I thought "why is everyone being so hard on KC? THIS is what a bad trade looks like."

Now I could end up being dead wrong about Gregorious or Bauer, but simply looking at the market for pitching prospects and IF with no bad tells me that there was a better way to deploy those resources. KC had a plan to cash in prospects for current stars. They executed it in a way that did not maximize value, but it is a plan that can work. Arizona appears to have decided to trade Bauer for a SS without paying much attention to which SS.

31. Squash posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:18 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Yeah this is a weird one. There are two worthwhile pieces in this deal and a bunch of slop - if the D'Backs are giving up one of those two worthwhile pieces, why are they not insisting on getting the other one back?

If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.

Apparently now's the time, if you have a pretty decent veteran nearing the end of his contract, to unload him and get an A prospect back.

32. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:19 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.

33. JE (Jason Epstein)

posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:31 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

So Choo is a one-year rental, right? Are the Reds confident that Hamilton will be ready for the majors on Opening Day '14?

34. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:46 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

So I get Didi Gregorius from the Reds but don't actually trade any players to the Reds? It's like getting a player for free!

I can only assume this was the mindset of Towers as he contemplated this trade.

35. charityslave is thinking about baseball posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:46 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Now, the Reds move the centerfield fence in 100 feet are so, and it's hello World Series!

36. Eric P. posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:49 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.

Career vs LHB: .215/.292/.414
Career vs RHB: .209/.324/.403

37. charityslave is thinking about baseball posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:55 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever."

Career vs LHB: .215/.292/.414
Career vs RHB: .209/.324/.403

Like you said: every time.

38. charityslave is thinking about baseball posted on December 12, 2012 at 12:59 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

So Choo is a one-year rental, right? Are the Reds confident that Hamilton will be ready for the majors on Opening Day '14?

This may just be a plot to make a rushed up Hamilton look great when compared to Choo and/or Bruce flailing away in centerfield. Suddenly a weak hitting, defense first center fielder won't look so bad.

39. SoSH U at work posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:01 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.

Does he have to be active? Because I find Tony Fossas really fits the LOOGY bill nicely.

40. billyshears posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:08 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Were the Mets all that attached to Reuben Tejada? He has to be more valuable than some random shortstop I've only vaguely heard of and who is apparently the same age and had about the same OPS except in AA. I'd trade Tejada for Bauer in a heartbeat.

41. Barnaby Jones posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:11 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

If he can be inactive, I nominate Ray "Burger" King:

RHB: .279/.374/.434
LHB: .214/.284/.314

42. hokieneer posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:14 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Reds leadoff hitters in 2012: .208/.254/.327
Drew Stubbs in 2012: .213/.277/.333
Drew Stubbs 09-12: .238/.311/.380

Choo career: .283/.373/.441 .. not in GABP

I hope Bruce or Choo one can play a serviceable CF.

Plus Donald has to be an upgrade at the UT IF spot over the Cairo/Valdez combo the Reds gave a combined 360 PA to last year.

43. Tom Cervo, backup catcher posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:21 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Clay Rapada.
Career vs RHB: .342/.459/.613
Career vs LHB: .168/.257/.236

Only 91 IP, but of course a true LOOGY won't rack up innings very fast.

44. PreservedFish posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:24 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

The true measure of a LOOGY is IP:G ratio. Tony Sipp has pitched in 248 games and 220 innings. Mike Myers, my nomination for ideal LOOGY, pitched in 883 games but only racked up 541 innings.

45. lonestarball posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:26 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Randy Choate

RHB: .279/.404/.401
LHB: .201/.278/.284

309 career innings.

46. Barnaby Jones posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:27 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Geez, that Rapada line is basically the Platonic form of a LOOGY, right there. Another current guy is Wesley Wright.

47. PreservedFish posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:46 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

How many pitchers have ever had a ratio of Batters Faced to Games lower than 2:1? I see that Jesse Orosco did it in 2001, but in only 35 games (16 IP), back when he basically only existed because he was thought to have Barry Bonds' number. Rapada and Myers both got close a couple times.

48. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong posted on December 12, 2012 at 01:47 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Towers had Stephen Drew. He trades Drew for nothing. He replaces Drew by trading Bauer, Young, Shaw and Albers for Gregorius and Pennington? Why not just keep Drew?

49. Austin posted on December 12, 2012 at 02:03 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

These three-way trades always give me a headache, so let me lay it out, mostly for my own sake.

Diamondbacks
Give up: Bauer, Albers, Shaw
Receive: Gregorius, Sipp, Anderson

Indians
Give up: Choo, Donald, Sipp, Anderson, $3.5M
Receive: Bauer, Stubbs, Albers, Shaw

Reds
Give up: Gregorius, Stubbs
Receive: Choo, Donald, $3.5M

Holy moley, that really looks lopsided, doesn't it? Cleveland and Cincinnati look like moderate winners, and Arizona looks like it got hosed. Bauer is no longer an elite prospect, but nevertheless, Gregorius had better be a damned good defender if he's going to have any chance of making the trade worthwhile for Arizona.

50. Jim (jimmuscomp) posted on December 12, 2012 at 02:08 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Holy Crap - #48 is one depressing take on the last six months for the D-backs.

True, but depressing.

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Thursday, May 23, 2013

Daugherty: Brandon Phillips has been Reds’ MVP so far

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Reds Think Factory