Bruce Bochy is much more a Uncle Robby

I don't think so. Bochy's stoic, not jovial. (Plus, even at his age he could probably kick about half the team's ass, and they know it.) Dusty Baker would be more of an Uncle Robbie.

Who are the Uncle Robbies?

Dusty Baker. Clint Hurdle?

Davey Johnson would be an Uncle Robbie.

Who are the Uncle Robbies?

Charlie Manuel. Hurdle.

Given the descriptions, Jim Tracy with the Rockies seems more like an Uncle Robby, to me. Not that he's funny, but he's a kindly grandpa. When players screw up, he doesn't give them a stern look or yell at them, he puts his arm around their shoulders and patiently explains the issue to them. Very gentle in public criticism and complimentary to the press in general.

Hurdle seemed like a cross between a Little Napoleon and an Uncle Robby, if that's possible. He joked a lot and blustered quite a bit, but he had a bit of an edge. Maybe that makes him a Peerless Leader?

Hurdle seemed like a cross between a Little Napoleon and an Uncle Robby

Uncle Napoleon?

He joked a lot and blustered quite a bit, but he had a bit of an edge. Maybe that makes him a Peerless Leader?

No. Peerless Leaders don't F around. Peerless Leaders don't care if players like them, only that players respect them.

I think Mike Matheny is going to be pure PL.

totally. he looks and acts like a cigar store indian in the dugout.

giambi needs to be a manager if only to add to the number of beefy redfaced managers in the game. clint hurdle is sort of all we got right now.

Hurdle seemed like a cross between a Little Napoleon and an Uncle Robby

Uncle Napoleon?

true fact, my great grandfather was named napoleon.

Davey Johnson would be an Uncle Robbie.

I see him as a Tall Tactician, but I've never observed him closely.

On the radio today they gave a Jim Leyland anecdote that is the essence of Tall Tactician: some reporter asked if Prince Fielder had proved to be a good teammate over his first season in Detroit. Leyland said, "30 homers and 100 RBIs. Great teammate."

I guess Jimmie Foxx's stint in the AAGPBL doesn't count

true fact, my great grandfather was named napoleon.

And you tell us you're from New Orleans. Whatever!

Not sure about the "wisdom" part of it, but Leyland's definitely an Uncle Robbie.

Joe Girardi

No. Peerless Leaders don't F around. Peerless Leaders don't care if players like them, only that players respect them.

Tom Kelly

For the Napoleon, it's passion. For the PL, strength of character. For the TT, brains. For the Uncle Robbie, wisdom, usually laced with humor.

By default, I guess I'd peg Tracy as a Napoleon. I don't think he's particularly passionate, but he sure doesn't have the requirements for any of the other three.

Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star, manage like ...

Sandy Alomar!

Not sure about the "wisdom" part of it, but Leyland's definitely an Uncle Robbie.

During Leyland's time in Pittsburgh, he had some PL in him, too. Think back to some of his spring training confrontation with Bonds, or the time he charged the mound against Kevin Gross.

For the Napoleon, it's passion.

earl weaver.

though he was certainly smart enough to be a tactician too.

Buck Showalter used to be a LN, but maybe he's changed.

I guess Ron Washington is an Uncle Robbie. Player's manager, upbeat, unflappable, gets excited when good stuff happens. I don't know if those things qualify him, but he can't fit any of the other three categories.

very good players, maybe HOVG or above

There's also an interesting separate category of managers like Valentine or Hurdle who had all the talent in the world but didn't have a HOVG or even much of a good career as a player. Dick Williams and Don Zimmer might fit here. Often it's an injury that reduces their playing potential and leads to a career that involves a lot of observing from the bench: that was true of Valentine, Williams, and Zimmer as I recall. Hurdle, I'm not as sure why he wasn't much of a player, but I guess he just never was as good as projected.

Often it's an injury that reduces their playing potential and leads to a career that involves a lot of observing from the bench: that was true of Valentine, Williams, and Zimmer as I recall. Hurdle, I'm not as sure why he wasn't much of a player, but I guess he just never was as good as projected.

Williams never got meaningfully hurt. He was a good utilityman talent who had a good utilityman career.

Zimmer's career was unquestionably derailed by those two hideous beanings. He might not have developed as hoped, but he was clearly a potential star.

Valentine certainly had his career ruined by that broken ankle, but Dodger farm system hype aside, he was never going to be a star. He was a good ballplayer, but not more than a good utilityman.

Hurdle was a very young guy who presented strong potential, but got hurt and never developed.

Hurdle was a very young guy who presented strong potential, but got hurt and never developed.

<insert drinkee-drinkee motion here>

I am loving this discussion.

What category does Bobby Cox fit in? Peerless Leader with a Napoleon complex?

I was thinking Cox is more half Uncle Robbie, half little Napoleon. He's the former in the clubhouse, and the latter on the field.

I think he was too beloved by the players to be a peerless leader

Williams never got meaningfully hurt

I stand corrected. I thought I recalled him breaking a leg or something that slowed him down and turned him into a utility man. It may well be that his somewhat garrulous memoir overstates the effect of minor injuries on his prospect self, or I may be misremembering :)

I also remember the hype on Valentine as being extreme. But such was my impressionable infant self :-D

I think he was too beloved by the players to be a peerless leader

Absolutely. He wore his emotions on his sleeve, which was exactly why his players loved him.

It may well be that his somewhat garrulous memoir overstates the effect of minor injuries on his prospect self, or I may be misremembering :)

Yes, the longer ago a guy played, not only the greater was he, but the greater he coulda been unless <insert whatever here>.