Oh, please. Hoboken is a PITA to get to, comma, and that's even including if you leave from a bordering town. Hell, if you change it to "(specific place) in Hoboken is a PITA to get to, period", then it even includes if you leave from any other specific place in Hoboken.

Hoboken is a bit of a pain to DRIVE to. On the other hand, you can take the PATH from Manhattan or Newark, and you can get a train there from most places in New Jersey. I can think of very few places that aren't a major city and are easier to get to than Hoboken.

Yes, Utica sucks, period. I speak from extensive experience. No debate required.

Got to say, anyplace that inflicts Utica Club beer on the world certainly has one strike against it. Apparently there's no truth to the rumor that when a sample of this brew was taken to a chemist for analysis, the written reply was: "Dear sir. We regret to inform you that your horse has diabetes."

Got to say, anyplace that inflicts Utica Club beer on the world certainly has one strike against it. Apparently there's no truth to the rumor that when a sample of this brew was taken to a chemist for analysis, the written reply was: "Dear sir. We regret to inform you that your horse has diabetes."

Another frequently repeated FYI: A majority of the Brooklyn Brewery beer is made in Utica at the same FX Matt's facility that brews Utica Club.

It's the only way I'd be able to manage a return trip to the BBHoF. Should I decide to get into a carpool, I'll see what I can set up. Ray, can I contact you first, since you suggested it?

As the murderer Ross Martin told an inquisitive Peter Falk in Suitable For Framing, "I'm not your only option, you know."

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Driving is unpleasant and expensive, and there are a lot of places where it's also unnecessary. I think the level of shock being expressed here is indicative of a sickness in our culture as much as anything else.

No, I really do think it's bizarre - indicative of a sickness if you will - when a person in American society under the age of 90 who is of sound mind and body has never learned to drive.

People might not like to drive (I like it, but whatever). They may not be very good at it, so don't want to drive. But to never have learned, no matter where one lives, is odd.

Gaming, & while I'm at it use of a cell phone, is unpleasant and expensive, and there are a lot of places where it's also unnecessary. I think the level of shock being expressed here is indicative of a sickness in our culture as much as anything else.

Much better!

People might not like to drive (I like it, but whatever). They may not be very good at it, so don't want to drive. But to never have learned, no matter where one lives, is odd.

The one place where it is less odd than anywhere else is for lifetime New York City dwellers. I know plenty of these who have never learned.

Yeah. Depends on where you are. Away from the largest, probably Northeastern cities, it's extremely odd, I'd say.

Lassus is correct.

No, I really do think it's bizarre - indicative of a sickness if you will - when a person in American society under the age of 90 who is of sound mind and body has never learned to drive.

Please nobody respond to this.

I've never been, but the Boxing Hall of Fame is on the way to/from Cooperstown if you're coming from the West.

Driving is unpleasant and expensive, and there are a lot of places where it's also unnecessary.

Huh. I find driving to be pleasurable, and the more expensive it gets, the more pleasurable the experience becomes. Thanks to outrageously expensive gas and plummeting wealth among American families, there are fewer people on the roads and much less traffic to deal with.

And yeah, unless you're a lifetime NYC resident, in which case it's understandable, not knowing how to drive is odd.

I've lived in DC now for 10 months and I've only used my car to drive to golf courses, a casino, and to a Thanksgiving dinner out in the suburbs. I've only been to a gas station once in the last 10 months and I've gone several months at a time without using my car. The only time I'm in my car is on Mondays and Tuesdays when I have to change the side of the road it is parked on.

I've never been, but the Boxing Hall of Fame is on the way to/from Cooperstown if you're coming from the West.

Or northwest, say, Toronto. Or the middle of lake Ontario.

Whether one needs a car, or has one but doesn't use it very much, is different from whether one has learned how to drive.

Got to say, anyplace that inflicts Utica Club beer on the world certainly has one strike against it.

Ever seen one of the famous Schultz and Dooley talking beer mug commercials, most of them voiced by Jonathan Winters? Great spots, right up there with the Bert and Harry Piels commercials, and a well-remembered part of upstate New York TV throughout the 1960s. Some examples can be found here:

Or northwest, say, Toronto. Or the middle of lake Ontario.

Well I was thinking anyone coming down 90, but on reflection if you're coming from PA or westerly, it's probably smarter to take 17 when they split. But I grew up in Lake Ontario basically.

Also I really like the Saranac beers.

I didn't learn to drive till I was 25, and I cheerfully admit that there was something wrong with me. To mitigate my neuroses, though, I really didn't need a car much in the places where I lived. I have come to really enjoy driving in the 28 years since. I've driven the length of California and the width of Germany, driven from Texas to Williamsport, PA; from Long Island to the North Woods of Wisconsin. I don't much care for the street layout of Dallas, and I don't think I ever want to drive in Boston, but the open highways of America are really wonderful places.