From Schillings' blog -

“If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

“A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.”

2 days ago, via ESPN and multiple news sources - Former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling asked Rhode Island for additional help to save his video game company Wednesday, prompting state leaders to consider whether the firm is viable enough to justify further investment.


75M in taxpayer money, in all likelihood never to be recovered. 2.5M of that to pay off a personally secured line of credit.

Then the conservative decides the best way to better his situation is to have some liberals take care of him.

I can't believe a conservative ends up being a hypocritical #######. First time thats ever happened.

What an ass.

“If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

“A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.”

--

Like I have always said, Schilling would fit right in at BTF. He could post on the video game threads, the movie threads, whatever baseball threads suited him, and clearly he would fit in on the political threads.

Schilling has denied media reports that he repaid his investment with the loan guarantees. It will be interesting to see if there is any official inquiry into that.

He didn't pay back cash he put in, he paid off a line of credit that he had personally guaranteed. That's essentially the same thing. Whether that's unethical in any way, I have no idea...

There are a couple of different versions floating around - Schilling claims he has invested 30M of his own money. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-videogames-schilling-idUSTRE76D5BK20110714

From Schillings' blog -

What's the url of Schilling's blog?

http://38pitches.wordpress.com/

and the content referenced above is here - http://38pitches.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/cant-help-but-love-this/

Typical Re:>Re:>Re:>FW:>FW: chain email stuff, but hilarious in light of events.

Here is the last of Schilling's lines in that blog entry:

If a conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A liberal will delete it because he’s “offended.”

"What you mean, I'm out of money? I still have checks left!"

Because you see, a conservative walks down to the store like this, but a liberal, he walks more like this!

There are a couple of different versions floating around - Schilling claims he has invested 30M of his own money.

Hopefully that's true. At least there would be a silver lining to this raping of the tax payers.

Video game companies are the new market inefficiency for former ballplayers to go bankrupt.

Actually, it's more like if a liberal sees a person who is down and out, he thinks "We should help him."

If a conservative sees a person who is down and out, he thinks "Ha ha #### that loser if he didn't wanna be poor he shoulda thought of that before he decided to be poor I am so great nothing bad will ever happen to me because I'm a true patriot I wonder if that down and out guy will give me a blowjob if I pay him I'm not gay I'm not gay I'm not gay."

“If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

“A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.”

A liberal is someone who gets a few thousand dollars from the government. A conservative is someone who gets a few million dollars from the government.

If a conservative reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A liberal will delete it because he’s “offended.”

Probably true. OTOH, if you make an offensive quip about conservatives and mail it around, the reaction would be reversed...

Ted Williams was a conservative. That's all I'm going to say.

Ted Williams was a conservative. That's all I'm going to say.

Schilling's head is going to be frozen?

Ted Williams was a conservative. That's all I'm going to say.

Had some pretty progressive views for a conservative at the time-especially on race.

$30m of his own money? Damn man. Money mark.

Smart people don't invest their own money in squat. They get others to invest their money. Others who can afford to lose it.

Apropos.

There are a couple of different versions floating around - Schilling claims he has invested 30M of his own money.

The claims that Schilling extended a LOC to the company and that he invested $30 million in the company are not in conflict. The company existed for 4 years before the RI loan, spent a lot of money getting talent and buying another company, and there are no reports of other investors. Schilling was the major source of cash before the first game. The LOC is just a small part of his financing the company and there would be nothing wrong with it being paid off from new financing as long as the company didn't stiff earlier creditors or violate the terms of the RI loan.

38 Studios scraped together the 1.1M, and is to apply for another 18M in tax credits - it appears the state cannot legally refuse. And documentation of the so-called $30M investment of Schilling's hasn't really turned up anywhere but in statements from Schilling - it may well be that the repayment of the credit line has repaid all of his investment. The state is conducting an independent audit. The company missed payroll.

http://www.boston.com/businessupdates/2012/05/18/facebook-curt-schilling-denies-paid-himself-back-with-money-thanks-supporters-ailing-studios-video-game-company/cfmCzT1AuMiqH1Nx0WlJuM/story.html

And documentation of the so-called $30M investment of Schilling's hasn't really turned up anywhere but in statements from Schilling

I'll admit to not being knowledgeable in this, but what kind of documentation would be available to the public for investment in a private company? Do you doubt that $30 million has been invested, or that Schilling did it? If you believe that documentation should exist of private investment, who made that investment?

Had some pretty progressive views for a conservative at the time-especially on race.

Doesn't hurt that his mother was Mexican-American, IIRC. Moreover, there was a lot of difference between the Rockefeller style conservatism of the 1950s and the Southern Democrat conservatism of the same time. A lot of Southern Democrats were New Dealers who supported public works and welfare programs to help the white working class in what would today be considered straight up socialism and which the Rockefeller wing would generally view as too much government. At the same time, they'd go ballistic if blacks were allowed into the same programs and got equal opportunity, whereas without Northern and Western Republicans the civil rights movement could never have succeeded in passing legislation.

As for Schilling, people are confusing guaranteeing a loan with actually putting money into the company. Schilling guaranteed a 2.5m dollar line of credit for the company, which was paid off with a portion of the loans that the state of Rhode Island guaranteed as part of the deal for 38 Games to move there. The only thing Schilling is getting out of that is that he's no longer liable if the company failed to repay a part of that line of credit, moreover there's multiple good business reasons why a company would want to consolidate it's debt, and we don't know the terms of the 2.5m dollar loan, it's payoff date, or it's purpose. It doesn't strike me as sketchy, the real problem is that 38 Games miscalculated the time and expense of creating an MMO. And they're hardly the first company to do so, just as Rhode Island is hardly the first state to lure companies via tax benefits and loan guarantees and have it blow up in their face. There's no bad guy here, even though RI was dumb to make the deal, just people being too optimistic.

I'll admit to not being knowledgeable in this, but what kind of documentation would be available to the public for investment in a private company? Do you doubt that $30 million has been invested, or that Schilling did it? If you believe that documentation should exist of private investment, who made that investment?

I would think the capitalization of a company would be part of it's audit trail. You can't just put stuff in a corporate bank account and not document where it came from. If not in the articles of incorporation that show who has what equity stake, then surely in the P&L statements. It's not in their disclosure statement - which documents Schilling having the LOC retired with public funds. And indeed I do doubt that both 30M of private equity has been invested or that Schilling is in at that level. The only people who do that kind of investment are stupid or on the take or both. Given the shadiness of the deal done by a lame duck gov. (that was massively opposed by the citizens) that brought them to RI, this really sounds like a scheme that is just waiting to be uncovered, now that the stuff is hitting the fan.

http://blogs.wpri.com/2012/05/14/38-studios-finances-under-scrutiny-ri-taxpayers-75m-at-risk/

And indeed I do doubt that both 30M of private equity has been invested or that Schilling is in at that level.

How did the company exist for years before it moved to Rhode Island and how did it acquire Big Huge Games before it got the government loan to relocate?

You can't just put stuff in a corporate bank account and not document where it came from.

\

Sure, but is that public knowledge?

Isn't the reports of private firms with less than 500 shareholders non-public?

The only people who do that kind of investment are stupid or on the take or both.

Smart people throw money at all kinds of half-assed things. Schilling had a vision, and he is a rich man. I'm sure he was less than rational because invested in things he were passionate about.

A liberal is someone who gets a few thousand dollars from the government. A conservative is someone who gets a few million dollars from the government.

This does seem to be how modern capitalism works. What are you gonna do, it's China Town.

Certainly documentation exists of any money that went into or out of the company, etc., but it's unlikely to be publicly available unless that was a requirement of the state's loan guarantee.

It wouldn't surprise me if Schilling put $30 million of his own money in...athletes go bankrupt this way all the time, although usually it's someone else's crazy idea and not their own, and I would guess it's usually less than $30 million. Luckily for Schilling he made $114 million (pre-tax) in wages alone during his career, so he likely has enough to live quite comfortable even if that entire $30 million is a doughnut.

Actually, it's more like if a liberal sees a person who is down and out, he thinks "We should help him."

Or, rather, "Someone should help him. The rich, not me."

Or, rather, "Someone should help him. The rich, not me."

I laughed, I admit it.

A liberal is someone who gets a few thousand dollars from the government. A conservative is someone who gets a few million dollars from the government.

I certainly can't disagree with the old adage, "Never steal anything small."

I certainly can't disagree with the old adage, "Never steal anything small."

I thought that post would be:
"A conservative is someone who gets a few million dollars from the government or the Yankees."

Thass because when a conservative is driving, he holds his steering wheel like this, but a liberal, he's headin' down the road all like this!

How did the company exist for years before it moved to Rhode Island and how did it acquire Big Huge Games before it got the government loan to relocate?

They may well have done it the same way every almost every other startup does it - leveraged credit from institutions that were willing to take a bigger payoff in lieu of collateral, or small private investors who were smitten by a "ground floor opportunity!" with Schilling. And in any event 30M is a TON of dough - many companies exist "for years" on a lot less than that.


It wouldn't surprise me if Schilling put $30 million of his own money in...athletes go bankrupt this way all the time, although usually it's someone else's crazy idea and not their own, and I would guess it's usually less than $30 million.

A 30M cash investment in a video game startup would be an epically large, and epically stupid thing to do, even for a well-heeled athlete. It's going to take a lot more than Curt's say-so to convince me that this is so.

They may well have done it the same way every almost every other startup does it - leveraged credit from institutions that were willing to take a bigger payoff in lieu of collateral, or small private investors

You questioned Schillings investment because there is no documentation. Where is this documentation, then?

And in any event 30M is a TON of dough - many companies exist "for years" on a lot less than that.

Not for a company that wants to produce a major MMO. Certainly not for a company that is developing a MMO, bought an established company and produced a game that has sold over 1 million copies.

A 30M cash investment in a video game startup would be an epically large, and epically stupid thing to do, even for a well-heeled athlete. It's going to take a lot more than Curt's say-so to convince me that this is so

Schilling understands that some people will call it stupid

How many of us have sat down with a game and said, "Wow, This really sucks. Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that?" I'm the guy that took the next step of investing everything I've ever made into actually making a game. Call it lunacy, stupidity, whatever you want, but I have a deep-seated passion for it.

He's clearly exaggerating when he says he put everything he ever made into the game, as he later say he invested a lot of his own money.

And here's something I didn't know

I was always an MMO fan. I'm playing World of Warcraft in the clubhouse and J.D. Drew and Coco Crisp saw me playing. They came over and got interested and they wound up creating accounts. Coco now runs an 85-person guild with a top tier rating in WoW—it's 85 major-league players. J.D. still plays as well. Fantasy is ingrained in everybody. The magic is when people see it and react to it.

I was always an MMO fan. I'm playing World of Warcraft in the clubhouse and J.D. Drew and Coco Crisp saw me playing. They came over and got interested and they wound up creating accounts. Coco now runs an 85-person guild with a top tier rating in WoW—it's 85 major-league players. J.D. still plays as well. Fantasy is ingrained in everybody. The magic is when people see it and react to it.

I'm pretty sure this is ########. There are 750-1200 active players in MLB. Schilling is asking me to believe that roughly 10% of them play WoW. He's then asking me to believe that enough of these guys are hardcore to run a raiding guild with a "top tier rating". Generally, that would mean that 30-35 of them would be regular raiders. When would they play? Baseball players don't have regular weekly schedules that are reliable (unless they're playing after games, which I find highly unlikely).

Furthermore, he's asking me to believe that of all these hardcore jocks, there's enough healers to support a raiding guild. That might be the most unlikely claim of all.

I am willing to believe that there is a WoW guild with MLB players in it (why they wouldn't just play with their friends, I don't know). But I don't believe that the MLB guys are hardcore raiders. And I don't believe that the guild is even mostly made up of MLB guys. It just doesn't make sense.

Or, rather, "Someone should help him. The rich, not me."

You're not enough of an idiot to honestly believe that "taxes on the wealthy should be higher than they are right now" is equivalent to "taxes on the wealthy should be higher than they are right now, and taxes on me should not exist". I think.

There are 750-1200 active players in MLB. Schilling is asking me to believe that roughly 10% of them play WoW.

Or he could be calling anyone who ever made the major leagues a major leaguer and this guild includes players no longer active.

When would they play? Baseball players don't have regular weekly schedules that are reliable (unless they're playing after games, which I find highly unlikely).

It's when Schilling played. If Crisp got into WoW playing with Schilling, that would have been when they played, and it's presumably when Crisp would start playing with other players.

Furthermore, he's asking me to believe that of all these hardcore jocks, there's enough healers to support a raiding guild. That might be the most unlikely claim of all.

How hard is healing in WoW, on a raid? (that's a genuine question). I have heard that there are interfaces that players can download that tell them when to heal. Could a player multi-box and play a healer and their preferred class?

It's when Schilling played. If Crisp got into WoW playing with Schilling, that would have been when they played, and it's presumably when Crisp would start playing with other players.

So you're telling me that 85 young men, rather than going out to bars or nightclubs and picking up women, or even just hanging out with teammates, are making a raid schedule? The other thing about that is the time differences. You'd have to agree to play at like 2-5AM EST due to the time zone differences between who's on a road trip and who isn't.

It's really, really improbable, and this isn't even taking into consideration hotel WiFi as a limiting factor. Having a tank on a hotel WiFi (even the Four Seasons, which is where most MLB teams stay) is a recipe for wiping.

How hard is healing in WoW, on a raid? (that's a genuine question). I have heard that there are interfaces that players can download that tell them when to heal. Could a player multi-box and play a healer and their preferred class?

Depended on the raid/content cycle. Healing varied between the easiest and hardest jobs in a raid, and nearly everyone used/uses a mod to heal with, as the default UI sucked ass (I understand it's been improved). It is not possible to multibox a healer and DPSer for various technical reasons (and multiboxing mostly died as of late 2010).

But that's not the real reason. The real reason is that jocks don't heal. Healing is non-competitive and mostly collaborative. It's a cliche, but there's a stereotype that women heal. Obviously, that's not true of all women, or of all healers, but generally speaking, it was extremely hard to recruit regular male healers, and it generally wasn't their preferred class/playstyle.


Running a raiding guild is a non-stop series of logistical hassles when dealing with college kids and young professionals. It would be borderline impossible when dealing with professional athletes--especially ones with asynchronous schedules and time zone availability.

So you're telling me that 85 young men, rather than going out to bars or nightclubs and picking up women, or even just hanging out with teammates, are making a raid schedule? The other thing about that is the time differences. You'd have to agree to play at like 2-5AM EST due to the time zone differences between who's on a road trip and who isn't.

You just provided the explanation. Guys in the east coast and central time zone would have time to go to the hotel bar or a nearby bar, pickup a woman, have some fun, kick her out and be able to start playing at 1 or 2 AM. Guys on the west coast and mountain could play for a couple hours, then go out at 2 am and pickup whoever is still out.

How often does a guild have to raid to be considered top tier?

]Obviously, that's not true of all women, or of all healers, but generally speaking, it was extremely hard to recruit regular male healers, and it generally wasn't their preferred class/playstyle.

I think that says a lot more about the typical WoW player than it does about anything else.

Schilling clearly exaggerates, so I won't blindly accept anything he says. But I also wouldn't give stereotypes more weight than the experiences of someone else.

How often does a guild have to raid to be considered top tier?

Generally at least three times a week, three hours per raid. Immediately after a patch, this would be 4-5 times a week, 4 hours + per raid, at the end of a content cycle, might be down to twice a week, two hours per raid. This is another part of why I consider this to be extremely unlikely for professional athletes to do at 2AM.

I think that says a lot more about the typical WoW player than it does about anything else.

Schilling clearly exaggerates, so I won't blindly accept anything he says. But I also wouldn't give stereotypes more weight than the experiences of someone else.

Suit yourself, but in my experience, it was extremely difficult to get young men to heal. WoW is fun and relatively easy to play, but healing was much more stressful (since failures are generally noticed once people die).


Oh, and just a sidenote. I can't find it anymore, but a long time ago someone linked to Schilling's WoW character. There were a number of ... questionable choices which leads me to believe that Schilling is most likely innacurate about his claims about MMO's. He might be a fan, but that was about it as I recall.

Why is it so hard to believe that ballplayers could start raiding at 2 AM and play till 6 AM? They don't have to report until 3 or 4 PM for a night game.

WoW is fun and relatively easy to play, but healing was much more stressful (since failures are generally noticed once people die).

I think this would be an area where major league professionals are more suited than the typical young male. Hitters are used to failing and they accept the notion of sacrifice for the good of the team.

Oh, and just a sidenote. I can't find it anymore, but a long time ago someone linked to Schilling's WoW character. There were a number of ... questionable choices which leads me to believe that Schilling is most likely innacurate about his claims about MMO's. He might be a fan, but that was about it as I recall

Schilling has said that he has been in hard core guilds and that he has played WoW. Some people who only know MMOs through WoW thought that meant that Schilling was saying he was a hardcore WoW raider when that wasn't the case.

You questioned Schillings investment because there is no documentation. Where is this documentation, then?

WTH? It's Schilling's assertion that he invested 30M in the company and incumbent upon him to back it up. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid. I merely pointed that companies need not have massive equity financing from one of the founders. Do you really require documentation of this?

Not for a company that wants to produce a major MMO. Certainly not for a company that is developing a MMO, bought an established company and produced a game that has sold over 1 million copies

The "established company" 38 Pitches acquired was spun off from THQ, which was losing hundreds of millions of dollars at the time and had announced they were going to close Big Huge Games if no buyer could be found. Financial terms were not revealed, so it's far more likely they were acquired for merely taking on Big Huge Games liabilities or other non-cash considerations. And the game 38 Pitches released wasn't even the one they were borrowing money to create - nothing but a trailer (released oddly on May 12th when the heat was full on) and a few stills for Copernicus. Where did all this money go? 30M of Schilling's and 50+M from RI taxpayers at least - all gone apparently - and nothing but vaporware to date. So, yeah, I am exceptionally skeptical - this sounds a hell of a lot like the script from "The Producers".

It's Schilling's assertion that he invested 30M in the company and incumbent upon him to back it up.

Why is it incumbent on him to back it up?

I merely pointed that companies need not have massive equity financing from one of the founders.

Why did you point that out, how is that at all relevant?

Do you really require documentation of this?

You are the one who started off asking for documentation.

And the game 38 Pitches released wasn't even the one they were borrowing money to create

Nobody is saying it was. But money was needed to complete that game.

Where did all this money go? 30M of Schilling's and 50+M from RI taxpayers at least

It went into producing an MMO that is a year away from release, per the studio. That seems to be about on track for an MMO that would take $100 million to produce. Of course, if the studio thinks it's a year away, its probably two years away and the eligible tax credits probably aren't going to be enough to completely fund the project.

I am no expert, but are you aware of what logical fallacies are and how they work?

Schilling: I invested 30M in this business.

Me: That's some claim. I can't really find anything to support it.

You: Why is it incumbent upon him to back it up?

Because the burden of proof is on the party making the assertion. Schilling is implying that his level of investment in the game puts him at risk as well, and any ill that befalls the company will impact him significantly.



You: It takes a lot of money to start and run a video game company.

Me: maybe, but companies are founded all the time without significant equity stakes from the owners.

You: How is this relevent?

Because if no equity stake is required, the fact that these companies need a lot of money isn't any proof at all that the money invested was Schillings'



You: Well you are the one who asked for documentation

Because the party that makes an assertion is responsible for the burden of proof.



Me: it sounds pretty fishy that all this money was raised, and yet no product exists.

You: They put it into the game. It's a year or two away

And yet somehow there's been a ton of money already spent, years of r and d and no demo, no trailer until this week quite coincidently, and little else. Apparently that's enough for you. I am still highly skeptical.

I just don't get your hostility to this line of questioning.

But that's not the real reason. The real reason is that jocks don't heal. Healing is non-competitive and mostly collaborative. It's a cliche, but there's a stereotype that women heal. Obviously, that's not true of all women, or of all healers, but generally speaking, it was extremely hard to recruit regular male healers, and it generally wasn't their preferred class/playstyle.

I was a healer and rolled a female character, I'm not sure what thay says about me...