I was a healer and rolled a female character, I'm not sure what thay says about me...

I healed, too. Mostly because I was the RL and the guild needed it, but I enjoyed it.

I think this would be an area where major league professionals are more suited than the typical young male. Hitters are used to failing and they accept the notion of sacrifice for the good of the team.

No offense, but I really just think you don't know what you're talking about here.

Why is it so hard to believe that ballplayers could start raiding at 2 AM and play till 6 AM? They don't have to report until 3 or 4 PM for a night game.

Because it would just be out of keeping with everything I've heard about the MLB lifestyle. Yeah, theoretically possible, but seriously unlikely.

They don't have to report until 3 or 4 PM for a night game.

Well, that ain't true. I don't have the schedule in front of me but generally the bus is picking them up from the hotel before noon for a night game. I think it was 11:00am pickup time if I remember correctly.

Guilds? Raids? Healing? Vay iz meer. I'll stick to golf.

I think it's more like: A liberal sees someone who needs help and thinks "The government should help him. Let's tax business, tax rich people (ie anyone who makes more than I do) or print more money to pay for it just so long as someone else picks up the tab".

I am no expert, but are you aware of what logical fallacies are and how they work?

I think you are projecting here. Your own logic is failing. Part of your doubt is that you can't find anything to back it up. However, with a private investment, there wouldn't be anything public to search. Part of your questioning has no logical base.

Because if no equity stake is required, the fact that these companies need a lot of money isn't any proof at all that the money invested was Schillings'

Why is this even in question? Is Rhode Island questioning the investment that Schilling has made?

And yet somehow there's been a ton of money already spent, years of r and d and no demo, no trailer until this week quite coincidently, and little else. Apparently that's enough for you. I am still highly skeptical.

I've followed a couple of MMOs before launch. There are some zealots that will love the game, but after a time, there can be constant criticism with each morsel of knowledge, each screenshot, each video. Schilling knows what kind of game he wants to create. He's played with people and knows what they want in a game. He's building that game. There's no benefit to release game info that will change during development. There's no benefit to releasing any twist he's going to take to let another company implement.

I just don't get your hostility to this line of questioning.

I'm not hostile to questioning. I am hostile to your claim of a scheme and I wonder how much your own biases are influencing your doubts.

No offense, but I really just think you don't know what you're talking about here

You clearly don't actually know what you are talking about here. You are basing everything on stereotype and then assuming your experience with selfish players you know means that other young males will exhibit the same attitude. I don't know why you cling to the stereotype rather than imagine that major leaguers don't all fit into the same box. Ray Allen visits art museums. Dicked climbed Kilimanjoro. How many people would have suspected major league players were playing Everquest until Jason Stark shared the Schilling-Glanville story?

I don't have the schedule in front of me but generally the bus is picking them up from the hotel before noon for a night game.

There may be a bus that leaves at noon that players can be on, but I would love to see something showing that players are required to be at a game 6 or 7 hours before it starts. Do you believe that Cubs players are typically at the stadium at 6 or 7 AM for a 1:20 PM start, or are they spending a couple of hours after the game at the stadium?

Because the burden of proof is on the party making the assertion.

Only if that person is trying to prove it. I see this fallacy all the time. There's no "burden of proof" on him at all.

Guilds? Raids? Healing? Vay iz meer. I'll stick to golf.

As was explained in excruciating detail to me on the Pujols thread, you, sir, are out of touch with the American psyche & might as well be dead.

When would they play?

In the clubhouse over beer & chicken!

HJow many of us have sat down with a game and said, "Wow, This really sucks. Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that?" I'm the guy that took the next step of investing everything I've ever made into actually making a game. Call it lunacy, stupidity, whatever you want, but I have a deep-seated passion for it.

The stupidity, Curt, is not having a basic understanding of the BUSINESS of MMORPGs before investing $30 million smackeroos.

A game like a MMORPG needs *subscribers* to survive. They need to be paying money, $5, $10, $20/month whatever. You need thousands of players - hell maybe even 1,000,000 players given that only some fraction of them will really pay into your system.

This is what I pulled out with 3 minutes of googling:



souce - with caveats that these numbers are not accurate and probably cooked.

Basically - if you are making a $50M game you are going to need 100K subscribers. This means that all your little gamer nerd tweaks about what makes a great game are not really going to cut it. There is a reason all these games are basically the same, and why they are all eating each other's lunch.

Hmm so just to throw in my probably useless acnetoes about gener and class riles.

So in the one WoW guild I was really every in, our main healer was male marine, he healed mainly because it was easy and the guild needed it. My main was originally melee DPS but the guild really needed a raid healer so I rolled a druid and that more or less became by guild main. The lead members of the guild, also both male and one ex service, both healed as needed. Looking back at it no one in our group really wanted to heal mostly everyone wanted to DPS but the lead guildies (most of which were male) would heal because of need. In fact for a long while I was the only female healer in our raid, with the other women in the raid DPSing however when I left for work reasons a women did take my place as raid healer.

Anyways I never notice in WoW a thing about gender and healing, most folks healed because it was easy* and/or their guild needed it and they ahd worked a deal that they could get gear for their DPS set as well.

* I stopped playing during after WoLK, I tried to go back during Cata, but my guild had fell parts and it's just not fun without friends playing.

You clearly don't actually know what you are talking about here. You are basing everything on stereotype and then assuming your experience with selfish players you know means that other young males will exhibit the same attitude. I don't know why you cling to the stereotype rather than imagine that major leaguers don't all fit into the same box. Ray Allen visits art museums. Dicked climbed Kilimanjoro. How many people would have suspected major league players were playing Everquest until Jason Stark shared the Schilling-Glanville story?

Dude, have you ever played WoW? Ever raided? If you're just being argumentative on the internet, that's cool and all, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Sure, Ray Allen visits art museums and Dickey climbed Kilimanjaro. Most MLB guys are married, have a kid, and don't have any interest in 20 hour a week plus hobbies. Allen visits art museums, but does he spend 20 hours a week in them? Did Dickey climb Kilimanjaro during the regular season?

I'm not basing it on stereotype. I'm basing it off my experiences, the experiences of other guilds on my server, and the knowledge of how progression guilds operate. There's no ####### way there is or ever was a progression raiding guild filled up with only MLB players playing during the season. Maybe some guys play during the offseason. I doubt it though. WoW tends to be a hobby for broke people because it is cheap.

Schilling is a habitual exaggerator. I think he's full of #### in this case.

Dude, have you ever played WoW? Ever raided?

Not to a serious degree. I downloaded the free version a few years ago, got up to level 10. Had fun, but wasn't going to subscribe because my friends were playing Everquest. As far as raids, I've done a few raids in Everquest. They generally took up a Sunday afternoon and weren't all that thrilling. But it doesn't matter what my personal experience is, because I'm not going to call someone else a liar using only my experience and stereotypes as evidence.

I'm not basing it on stereotype. I'm basing it off my experiences, the experiences of other guilds on my server, and the knowledge of how progression guilds operate.

You are basing it on your experiences. You have no actual knowledge of how many players are playing, when they would play, any of that, and feel comfortable that the limited view we get of players outside lives through the media gives you any actual knowledge to have an informed opinion.

Most MLB guys are married, have a kid, and don't have any interest in 20 hour a week plus hobbies.

I get the impression that lots of families don't travel with the players on a regular basis. In fact, Schilling enjoyed MMOs on the road for the specific purpose that it helped him occupy his time after games. As far as 20 hours a week, sure, that would be extreme, but based on your previous response, it sounds like there are times where a guild can maintain top tier status playing as few as 4 hours a week.

If you're just being argumentative on the internet, that's cool and all, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Another interesting case of projection. You are calling a guy a liar based on no actual contradicting evidence.

I was a healer and rolled a female character, I'm not sure what thay says about me...

It's been at least five years since I've had a paid subscription to an MMO, but I've played a few female healers as well. Healers, because there always seemed to be a group willing to add a healer. Females, because you spend a good deal of time looking at your character from behind.

Because the burden of proof is on the party making the assertion.

Only if that person is trying to prove it.

Which is another way of saying "Only if that person is trying to get other people to accept the assertion as true, and by 'other people' I mean those who don't just accept whatever people assert."

I think spike is saying Schilling has the burden of proof if he wants people to believe his assertion. It appears Schilling made the assertion because he wants people to believe he has not acted improperly here; otherwise, there's really no reason to make the assertion at all.

I'm pretty sure Schilling doesn't give a rat's ass whether spike believes him. I'm also pretty sure spike isn't inclined to believe Schilling without more than an assertion. Everything else is just daily internet umbrage.

Where did all this money go? 30M of Schilling's and 50+M from RI taxpayers at least - all gone apparently - and nothing but vaporware to date. So, yeah, I am exceptionally skeptical - this sounds a hell of a lot like the script from "The Producers".

How much do you think it costs to employ 379 people?

The company was founded in 2006. According to this article, the average video game industry employee earned about $80k in salary alone in 2010. Assuming $95k all-in compensation when you include benefits, and they only have to have averaged 150 employees over the last 6 years to blow through $85 million. They have 379 employees today, so to me that's not a stretch at all. That's not including overhead costs, debt service, the cost of the acquisition they did, plus IT costs (it's also not including revenues, which I assume were relatively small). I'm sure Schilling didn't skimp on any of this stuff.

When I worked there, one of my former employers founded a startup subsidiary that burned through about $25 million in less than 3 years. They were carrying a lot of employees, IT and working capital added up, and the expected revenues just never came.

It's been at least five years since I've had a paid subscription to an MMO, but I've played a few female healers as well. Healers, because there always seemed to be a group willing to add a healer. Females, because you spend a good deal of time looking at your character from behind.

Heh. Guess it says that we are both pervs...

I did it for the extremely shallow reason that Shamen sounded cool and ended up healing because my class could. Not played in years, though.

Why is this even in question?

Because the equity of the company is part of the collateral on the loan, for starters.

http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files/EDC_38_Studios_fact_sheet_5-16-2012.pdf

Secondly, banks require a downpayment on a home loan because the equity of the borrower motivates them to avoid foreclosure. This loan looks shady enough as it is, but if it was granted and it turns out that Schilling has little to no equity in the company, or used loan money to buy out some or all of his equity, then it's a much bigger deal - either Carcieri/Stokes knew there was no equity in the company and made the loan anyway or the amount of equity was not properly represented.

Because the equity of the company is part of the collateral on the loan, for starters.

http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files/EDC_38_Studios_fact_sheet_5-16-2012.pdf

Secondly, banks require a downpayment on a home loan because the equity of the borrower motivates them to avoid foreclosure. This loan looks shady enough as it is, but if it was granted and it turns out that Schilling has little to no equity in the company, or used loan money to buy out some or all of his equity, then it's a much bigger deal - either Carcieri/Stokes knew there was no equity in the company and made the loan anyway or the amount of equity was not properly represented.

I don't understand what you are saying. Equity in the company cannot be collateral for a company loan. Equity is held by investors. The collateral for the RI loan is company assets, mostly the company's IP.

My larger question is how you believe that Schilling had a low equity position or used funds to buy out his equity. As pointed out above, the company is six years old and its costs are mostly salary and benefits. Its only assets are leases and barely realized computer games. Costs are huge with zero revenues. There is nothing to lend against and there are no reports of other investors. Who provided the money since 2006 if not Curt? How did the loan "buy out his equity"?

the typical factor of salary plus benefits is 1.25 meaning you take the person's salary and multiply it by 1.25 to get the total cost of the employee. sure it varies. can be less. but 1.25 is pretty common.

and if the gaming industry's average employee is making 80k in this economy the gaming industry is paying a few people a who lot of money throwing the average out of whack because there are oodles of kids out pounding the pavement who will take 35k to be creative and be fine with it

38 Studios lay of all staff. It's sad for the staff, I even feel a bit sorry for Schilling, idiot as he may be, never mind the money now he never will get to play the MMO of his dreams.

and if the gaming industry's average employee is making 80k in this economy the gaming industry is paying a few people a who lot of money throwing the average out of whack

Those kids that earn 80k at game studios are taking a significant hit to work with what they love. They could make 150-200k in other kinds of software development.

because there are oodles of kids out pounding the pavement who will take 35k to be creative and be fine with it

This isn't unskilled work. And those who work on the art side where there is a surplus of talent are making much less than the developers.