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More Rockies news:
- They're not moving to the Cayman Islands.
- They're not replacing the Coors with Asahi.
- They're not switching to all cotton uniforms.
Agreed, deputydrew. Giambi has never come across as the studious or intellectual baseball thinker, though I suppose his personality and his popularity with teammates would help him.
The other Rockies' candidates that I've heard mentioned are Tom Runnells, the failed Expos manager who pulled that stunt wearing military fatigues to spring training about 20 years ago. And then there's Stu Cole, the Rockies' Triple-A manager who has been working the minors for the past decade.
6.puck posted on October 16, 2012 at 02:37 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
What is it with the Rockies and announcing what they aren't doing?
They didn't announce it (at least, not unprompted). The Post's beat writer reported that, because as long as they're talking former players as candidates, Vinny's on a lot of people's minds around here.
I really hope Giambi gets it, as opposed to some 56-year-old who had managed the Indians for four years to unspectacular results, which seems more like the Rockies style. You know, Terry Collins or Gene Lamont or someone like that. Someone like Tom Runnells.
Giambi has been the team's de facto hitting coach the past couple of years, and the younger players speak glowingly of how he's helped them not just at the plate but in their overall approach to the game. I suspect he'd be a good manager of people, and his style at the plate leads me to think he might know how to build an offense, too. He might need help with the more tactical stuff, but he can always hire a good bench coach to help with that. And there's no reason to think Giambi would be bad at that, either.
Giambi, 41, has never coached at any level. He underwent hernia surgery last week to keep open
This is how the blurb ends on the front page of the Newsstand, and my first thought was, "But that's the opposite of what hernia surgery is supposed to do!"
I haven't come up with anything yet, so let me throw this out and see what ideas people have.
Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star, manager like a .....
Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star, manager like a .....
Warren Brusstar.
18.puck posted on October 16, 2012 at 03:28 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
I have no idea how good Giambi would be at managing, but I'd love to see him stay in the game for another 10 years.
Seems like he'll at very least be a hitting coach or some other sort of coach. The Rockies players loved him. They supposedly asked him not just about hitting, but all sorts of stuff. (Though, that leaves a lot up to the imagination. "How do you get a girl to write her number on a baseball and not draw attention to yourself.")
19.UCCF posted on October 16, 2012 at 03:51 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Warren Brusstar.
Funny - that was my first thought, except that he sucked, and never managed.
According to the BBRef database, the only manager in history with "star" in his name was Joe Start, who managed 25 games in 1873.
They supposedly asked him not just about hitting, but all sorts of stuff. (Though, that leaves a lot up to the imagination. "How do you get a girl to write her number on a baseball and not draw attention to yourself.")
"What is the best style and material for slump-busting thongs, or do we really need to wear the exact pair you have worn on your sweaty, greasy man parts?"
Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star, manager like a .....
brain in a jar! (I miss Gene Rayburn).
22.BDC posted on October 16, 2012 at 04:04 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Giambi would seem to be in a category with Kirk Gibson, Don Mattingly, and Clint Hurdle. Primarily known for his hitting, never really a very intellectual image (to say the extremely least) while an active player. Yet those three guys have had as much success as your average manager, certainly, in their brief careers so far. I guess not all managers have to be bespectacled backup catchers … it's entirely possible that Giambi spent the DH/PH/DL aspects of his career sitting in the dugout learning something about baseball instead of loading up on rally beer and chicken :)
Also possible he's delusional, of course.
23.Perry posted on October 16, 2012 at 04:18 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Seems like he'll at very least be a hitting coach or some other sort of coach. The Rockies players loved him. They supposedly asked him not just about hitting, but all sorts of stuff
The Rockies had a pretty funny commercial in their rotation last season showing Giambi delivering pearls of wisdom to his teammates in Yoda-speak.
Giambi would seem to be in a category with Kirk Gibson, Don Mattingly, and Clint Hurdle. Primarily known for his hitting, never really a very intellectual image (to say the extremely least) while an active player.
Don Baylor would fall into the same category. And arguably Dusty Baker.
25.Ray (RDP) posted on October 16, 2012 at 04:25 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Is there a list somewhere of managers who were very good players, maybe HOVG or above, such as Giambi and Mattingly and Ventura? I agree with Tom: these kinds of managers can make the game fun. And it's not like the non-Giambis are mensa candidates anyway, so, might as well go with someone like the Giambino.
(I may be misremembering but IIRC correctly "the Giambino" is a John Sterling creation.)
Giambi would seem to be in a category with Kirk Gibson, Don Mattingly, and Clint Hurdle. Primarily known for his hitting, never really a very intellectual image (to say the extremely least) while an active player.
Cito Gaston would be another example. It's not a typical path to the manager job, but it isn't unprecedented.
Is there a list somewhere of managers who were very good players, maybe HOVG or above, such as Giambi and Mattingly and Ventura?
Just scanning the list of managers on bb-ref, in addition to those already mentioned (and excluding player-managers):
- Felipe Alou
- Hank Bauer
- Buddy Bell
- Yogi Berra
- Ken Boyer
- Max Carey
- Del Crandall
- Alvin Dark
- Freddie Fitzsimmons
- Jim Fregosi
- Joe Gordon
- Stan Hack
- Mike Hargrove
- Pinky Higgins
- Gil Hodges
- Frank Howard
- Davey Johnson
- Walter Johnson
- Harvey Kuenn
- Bob Lemon
- Eddie Lopat
- Davey Lopes
- Eddie Mathews
- Tony Perez
- Johnny Pesky
- Willie Randolph
- Red Schoendienst
- Joe Torre
- Alan Trammell
- Mickey Vernon
- Ted Williams
- Maury Wills
32.Ray (RDP) posted on October 16, 2012 at 04:54 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Thanks, Steve. I had forgotten that Trammell managed.
And many people would like to forget that Wills did :-)
Giambi would seem to be in a category with Kirk Gibson, Don Mattingly, and Clint Hurdle. Primarily known for his hitting, never really a very intellectual image (to say the extremely least) while an active player.
Don Baylor would fall into the same category.
Toward the end of his career, Baylor was known as much for his clubhouse leadership and his "kangaroo courts" as for his batting. He was pegged as managerial material while still a player.
I'd just like to fourth the thread consensus that Jason Giambi, major league manager, needs to happen.
38.Perry posted on October 16, 2012 at 06:29 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Anyone remember the Tom Boswell essay years ago that divided all major league managers into 4 archetypical categories? They were the Little Napoleon, the Peerless Leader, the Uncle Robbie, and the Tall Tactician. I'd guess Giambi would be an Uncle Robbie. The Rockies managers in the past have either been Uncle Robbies (Hurdle) or Peerless Leaders (Baylor, Bell, Tracy). I guess Leyland's more of a Tactician but he wasn't around long. Personally I think they could do with a Little Napoleon at this point, although there aren't as many around as there used to be.
39.JJ1986 posted on October 16, 2012 at 06:31 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Personally I think they could do with a Little Napoleon at this point, although there aren't as many around as there used to be.
Anyone remember the Tom Boswell essay years ago that divided all major league managers into 4 archetypical categories?
I loved that. It was completely brilliant and fun.
The Rockies managers in the past have either been Uncle Robbies (Hurdle) or Peerless Leaders (Baylor, Bell, Tracy).
You would consider Tracy a Peerless Leader rather than a Little Napoleon?
41.Perry posted on October 16, 2012 at 06:45 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
You would consider Tracy a Peerless Leader rather than a Little Napoleon?
Oh, definitely. Or maybe a PL crossed with a little TT. Ozzie Guillen is the only Napoleon that leaps to mind of guys that have managed recently. Maybe Valentine. Tracy's way too even-keeled and circumspect to be a LN. I think Jose Oquendo would be a Napoleon, although it's unlike Napoleons to be happy to be a 3B coach as long as Oquendo has, so I may have a wrong read on him.
Oh, definitely. Or maybe a PL crossed with a little TT. Ozzie Guillen is the only Napoleon that leaps to mind of guys that have managed recently. Maybe Valentine. Tracy's way too even-keeled and circumspect to be a LN.
Stupid question: What's meant by a Peerless Leader? I can figure the other three, but what makes a Peerless Leader different from a Tall Tactician or the others.
(Yes, I know Frank Chance was Peerless Leader, but I can't quite pick up on what this one means.
46.Perry posted on October 16, 2012 at 07:18 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Stupid question: What's meant by a Peerless Leader?
Boswell describes each type in terms of the #1 attribute each possesses and is ruled by. For the Napoleon, it's passion. For the PL, strength of character. For the TT, brains. For the Uncle Robbie, wisdom, usually laced with humor.
Peerless Leaders are also usually rather hard, physical men. In the time of Boswell's essay, I think he cited Walt Alston as a classic PL. Gil Hodges. Frank Robinson. More recently, Don Baylor and Art Howe. I think Mike Matheny is going to be pure PL. Guys who clench their teeth, fold their arms, and stare into the middle distance.
La Russa's a Tactician. Leyland. I'd guess Maddon, although I don't watch the AL much. Showalter.
47.Perry posted on October 16, 2012 at 07:19 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
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Page 1 of 2 pages
1 2 >What is it with the Rockies and announcing what they aren't doing?
- They're not moving to the Cayman Islands.
- They're not replacing the Coors with Asahi.
- They're not switching to all cotton uniforms.
The other Rockies' candidates that I've heard mentioned are Tom Runnells, the failed Expos manager who pulled that stunt wearing military fatigues to spring training about 20 years ago. And then there's Stu Cole, the Rockies' Triple-A manager who has been working the minors for the past decade.
They didn't announce it (at least, not unprompted). The Post's beat writer reported that, because as long as they're talking former players as candidates, Vinny's on a lot of people's minds around here.
Giambi has been the team's de facto hitting coach the past couple of years, and the younger players speak glowingly of how he's helped them not just at the plate but in their overall approach to the game. I suspect he'd be a good manager of people, and his style at the plate leads me to think he might know how to build an offense, too. He might need help with the more tactical stuff, but he can always hire a good bench coach to help with that. And there's no reason to think Giambi would be bad at that, either.
Plus, it wold be a lot of fun.
Vinny still works in the Rockies' front office.
This is how the blurb ends on the front page of the Newsstand, and my first thought was, "But that's the opposite of what hernia surgery is supposed to do!"
Sorry, I have nothing of more value to add.
Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star, manager like a .....
Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, is the Rockies' plan for next season.
FUBAR
LaRuss-star.
Warren Brusstar.
Seems like he'll at very least be a hitting coach or some other sort of coach. The Rockies players loved him. They supposedly asked him not just about hitting, but all sorts of stuff. (Though, that leaves a lot up to the imagination. "How do you get a girl to write her number on a baseball and not draw attention to yourself.")
Funny - that was my first thought, except that he sucked, and never managed.
According to the BBRef database, the only manager in history with "star" in his name was Joe Start, who managed 25 games in 1873.
"What is the best style and material for slump-busting thongs, or do we really need to wear the exact pair you have worn on your sweaty, greasy man parts?"
brain in a jar! (I miss Gene Rayburn).
Also possible he's delusional, of course.
The Rockies had a pretty funny commercial in their rotation last season showing Giambi delivering pearls of wisdom to his teammates in Yoda-speak.
Don Baylor would fall into the same category. And arguably Dusty Baker.
(I may be misremembering but IIRC correctly "the Giambino" is a John Sterling creation.)
Cito Gaston would be another example. It's not a typical path to the manager job, but it isn't unprecedented.
And now I can only hear this awesome funky tune in my head.
I knew this quote, but just couldn't place it. The best guess I could come up with was The Princess Bride. Turns out it's Sherlock Holmes.
Missed it by that much.
Hal McRae
Just scanning the list of managers on bb-ref, in addition to those already mentioned (and excluding player-managers):
- Felipe Alou
- Hank Bauer
- Buddy Bell
- Yogi Berra
- Ken Boyer
- Max Carey
- Del Crandall
- Alvin Dark
- Freddie Fitzsimmons
- Jim Fregosi
- Joe Gordon
- Stan Hack
- Mike Hargrove
- Pinky Higgins
- Gil Hodges
- Frank Howard
- Davey Johnson
- Walter Johnson
- Harvey Kuenn
- Bob Lemon
- Eddie Lopat
- Davey Lopes
- Eddie Mathews
- Tony Perez
- Johnny Pesky
- Willie Randolph
- Red Schoendienst
- Joe Torre
- Alan Trammell
- Mickey Vernon
- Ted Williams
- Maury Wills
And many people would like to forget that Wills did :-)
I'd just like to fourth the thread consensus that Jason Giambi, major league manager, needs to happen.
Also Frank Robinson.
A couple of others who might merit inclusion would be Joe Adcock and Jim Lemon.
an earthstar.
After all, his teammates say he's a fun guy.
Bobby Valentine is available.
I loved that. It was completely brilliant and fun.
The Rockies managers in the past have either been Uncle Robbies (Hurdle) or Peerless Leaders (Baylor, Bell, Tracy).
You would consider Tracy a Peerless Leader rather than a Little Napoleon?
Oh, definitely. Or maybe a PL crossed with a little TT. Ozzie Guillen is the only Napoleon that leaps to mind of guys that have managed recently. Maybe Valentine. Tracy's way too even-keeled and circumspect to be a LN. I think Jose Oquendo would be a Napoleon, although it's unlike Napoleons to be happy to be a 3B coach as long as Oquendo has, so I may have a wrong read on him.
Fair enough. I've only witnessed Tracy from afar.
Lou Piniella would be a LN, yes?
So did Joe Torre. For a week. (His last PA was a week after his dugout debut).
There's also Ted Lyons. He's a reverse Torre. Lyons managed & played in the same season, but his last game was shortly before he became manager.
(Yes, I know Frank Chance was Peerless Leader, but I can't quite pick up on what this one means.
Boswell describes each type in terms of the #1 attribute each possesses and is ruled by. For the Napoleon, it's passion. For the PL, strength of character. For the TT, brains. For the Uncle Robbie, wisdom, usually laced with humor.
Peerless Leaders are also usually rather hard, physical men. In the time of Boswell's essay, I think he cited Walt Alston as a classic PL. Gil Hodges. Frank Robinson. More recently, Don Baylor and Art Howe. I think Mike Matheny is going to be pure PL. Guys who clench their teeth, fold their arms, and stare into the middle distance.
La Russa's a Tactician. Leyland. I'd guess Maddon, although I don't watch the AL much. Showalter.
Would Robin Ventura be a Peerless Leader?
Descriptions of types:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Manager
Mike Scioscia. Bruce Bochy. Felipe Alou. Joe Torre.
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