BBTF.org/m/tigers : Perry: Torii Hunter: Having gay teammate would be ‘difficult’

Thursday, May 23, 2013

Leyland breaks his own rule, lets Verlander get win after delay

(www.foxsportsdetroit.com)

posted 4 hours ago by Repoz to tigers | 14 comment(s)

Must…let…him…tie…Bob…Purkey…in…career…wins…at…all…cost…...

Wednesday, though, Leyland got a little sentimental. After a 65-minute stoppage in the fifth inning, he let Justin Verlander go back into the game and get the two outs he needed to pick up the victory.

“Since I got here in 2006, that guy has been our horse, and tonight was a reward for that,” Leyland told FOX Sports Detroit’s Shannon Hogan after Detroit’s 11-7 win over the Indians. “I stretched it for five minutes because of what he’s ...

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1. Transmission posted on December 30, 2012 at 06:31 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

As an atheist, I would find it difficult and uncomfortable to have Torii Hunter in a clubhouse.

Or, Torii and the rest of the faithful could just stop qualifying statements of personal belief with "As an X...." and own their prejudices, instead of excusing it as a built-in part of the faith.

2. Gold Star - just Gold Star posted on December 30, 2012 at 06:37 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Something I've passed along here before: A veteran player said, in an interview I read a few years ago, he had played with gays and with evangelicals - and the latter were, by far, more disruptive to clubhouse chemistry.

3. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius posted on December 30, 2012 at 06:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Even Slingblade knew that Vaughan wasn't being sent to Hades.

4. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle posted on December 30, 2012 at 06:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Like in the New England Patriots’ locker room. Earlier this season linebacker Brandon Spikes sent out a tweet claiming to be homophobic “just like I’m arachnophobic. I have nothing against homosexuals or spiders but I’d still scream if I found one in my bathtub.”

"Scream"?

I dunno, Spikes. That sounds pretty gay to me.

I also wonder at the source of 'homophobia' for a guy who tweets about imagining gay men in his bathtub.

Even Slingblade knew that Vaughan wasn't being sent to Hades.

Talk about a guy with a weird career ...

5. Der_K posted on December 30, 2012 at 06:58 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Never mind

6. cardsfanboy

posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:07 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Torii and the rest of the faithful could just stop qualifying statements of personal belief with "As an X...." and own their prejudices, instead of excusing it as a built-in part of the faith.

I've never been able to put my finger on it, but that comment right there sums it up for me. Christians all the time are able to overcome their beliefs to do actions that are unchristianlike(I doubt that there are many Christians in pro sports who didn't have premarital sex) Why is this particular issue so much more unchristiany than other things? Isn't core christian principles to love your fellow man? That we are all sinners? That God is the only one to judge?

I have no problem with people of faith, but to use that faith to perform actions that goes contrary to the fundamental principles of that faith, is somewhat problematic.

7. Gonfalon Bubble posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:13 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Love thy fellow man. But be a sport and give a reacharound.

8. vivaelpujols posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:14 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

What a ####### moron. I could see it being difficult because of the amount of time spent in the locker rooms (I'm not exactly sure what goes on in a locker room, but if Major League is accurate, there is some nudity), but really anyone still clinging to the idea that being gay is "not right" on a moral level is just dumb.

9. JJ1986 posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:16 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

'People see ballplayers out there, and the perception is that they're straight. They're not us. They're impostors. Even people I know come up and say: 'Hey, what orientation is Mike Piazza? Is he straight?' I say, 'Come on, he's gay.'

10. Howie Menckel posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:33 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

"Hunter is of course entitled to his personal beliefs (although one wonders whether he is similarly affronted by, say, shellfish and neatly maintained beards, which are also forbidden by the holiness code of Leviticus),"

that add-in by the blogger is quite the invitation to a constructive conversation
#notreallyatall

11. Walt Davis posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:36 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If I found a Christian in my bathtub I might scream ... since I don't currently have a bathtub. Where'd it come from? Did they bring it with them? Did they hook it up to the plumbing?

12. Jittery McFrog posted on December 30, 2012 at 07:44 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If I found a Christian in my bathtub I might scream ... since I don't currently have a bathtub. Where'd it come from?

The toilet, transubstantiated.

13. Jeff Francoeur's OPS posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:22 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

But, Torii, how do you feel about playing with the 7-10 adulterers who are almost certainly in your clubhouse?

14. AROM posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:26 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

"I've never been able to put my finger on it, but that comment right there sums it up for me. Christians all the time are able to overcome their beliefs to do actions that are unchristianlike(I doubt that there are many Christians in pro sports who didn't have premarital sex) Why is this particular issue so much more unchristiany than other things? Isn't core christian principles to love your fellow man? That we are all sinners? That God is the only one to judge? "

Torii is 37 years old and has college age children.

15. cardsfanboy

posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:33 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Torii is 37 years old and has college age children.

Ok?

I wasn't directing my comment towards Torii specifically, but to people who are Christians and seem to focus on one minor comment in their religion as it's the most important part of their religion, while accepting other actions by other people with no problem. As post 13 points out, what is the fundamental difference between adulterers and homosexuals as far as Christianity is concerned?

Was Torii pure when he got married? Is he married? Doesn't he have 4 kids by 4 different mothers? Not sure that he is the poster boy for Christian behavior, nor should he be pulling out Christian values when he talks.

16. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:46 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

that add-in by the blogger is quite the invitation to a constructive conversation
#notreallyatall

There can be no constructive conversation on the matter. One side is completely bigoted and wrong. Pretending there are valid arguments for their position to have constructive conversation about just enables them, and allows them to propagate that viewpoint. Shaming them repeatedly, so they realize that those views have no place in a modern society, and future generations grow up knowing it is wrong, is about as constructive as you can get.

17. fra paolo posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

As post 13 points out, what is the fundamental difference between adulterers and homosexuals as far as Christianity is concerned?

Well, I won't pretend to be an acknowledged theologian, but I don't think there is any.

There is, however, a difference between someone sneaking around guiltily being gay in the hope of not being found out, and an adulterer proclaiming their adulterous lifestyle as something wholly acceptable as a 'lifestyle choice'. The latter is much more deserving of being shunned.

EDIT: I ought to point out the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' clause here. Shunning is probably not the way to handle it.

18. Shooty is in the Trust Tree

posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I really hope Miguel Cabrera is gay.

19. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling posted on December 30, 2012 at 08:58 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Is there any other sport in which patting a guy from the other team on the bottom for "doing something good" is accepted behavior, outside of baseball? I'd say the safer assumption is that nearly every MLB player has at least some homosexual tendencies, either natural or learned.

20. Justin T is expanding the aperture of awareness posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:04 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Torii's been a d-bag in a smiling press-friendly dumbass's clothing his whole career.

21. Shooty is in the Trust Tree

posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I'd say the safer assumption is that nearly every MLB player has at least some homosexual tendencies, either natural or learned.

Hey, ballplayers work hard and they play hard.

22. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:07 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Is there any other sport in which patting a guy from the other team on the bottom for "doing something good" is accepted behavior, outside of baseball? I'd say the safer assumption is that nearly every MLB player has at least some homosexual tendencies, either natural or learned.

It happens in football too.

23. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:18 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Like in the New England Patriots’ locker room. Earlier this season linebacker Brandon Spikes sent out a tweet claiming to be homophobic “just like I’m arachnophobic. I have nothing against homosexuals or spiders but I’d still scream if I found one in my bathtub.”

There is nothing wrong with this. Who wouldn't be scared to find a stranger in their bathtub?

24. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:26 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Without actually hearing the comments, the tenor and the voice of the delivery, I will not condemn Hunter outside of saying, "yeah, it might be difficult, Torii. It's more difficult for a gay man to live a closeted lifestyle, so suck it up and love they ####### neighbor, Chist-man."

25. Squash posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:30 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

that add-in by the blogger is quite the invitation to a constructive conversation

What's the difference really in the examples the author cites? There aren't many qualifications in Leviticus - you're either holy or you're not. The point is, we qualify constantly what is good or not and what is moral or not and we do it primarily based on what's good for us. Being anti-gay as a matter of morality is easy morality - it costs a straight person nothing to be anti-gay, whereas it costs the gay person everything. You the straight person don't have to change - you're righteous just as you are. It's all those other people who have to change to become righteous and moral just like you.

26. still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Well, between this and whining about Arte's "betrayal," Torii is making his departure from the Angels much more palatable for me...

27. Random Transaction Generator posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think in the next 5 years we're going to see an active professional athlete in one of the four North American leagues (MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL) announce himself as homosexual.
I also believe that as soon as one person does, it'll open up the flood gates and many more will in the next 5 years after that.

If I had to guess, it'll first be a hockey player, and it'll be on a Canadian team (probably the Maple Leafs).
I think the last league to have a gay player come out (or be "out" before being drafted) will be the NBA.

28. Bhaakon posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

"yeah, it might be difficult, Torii. It's more difficult for a gay man to live a closeted lifestyle, so suck it up and love they ####### neighbor, Chist-man."

Is this really true? I mean, sure, if you live in a place full of people who don't care, but if there are enough jackasses around...

29. Harveys Wallbangers

posted on December 30, 2012 at 09:58 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

hate the sin. love the sinner.

though i don't regard being homos8xual as being a sin.

scr8wing around on your wife, yes.

or your girlfriend. or your boyfriend if that's your thing

keep a promise already

30. Gamingboy posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:04 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think it's safe to say that, in general, the reception of the first openly gay male athlete in the Big 3 will depend heavily on how good he is. If it's a perennial All-Star, even the most prejudiced would be able to put aside their "difficulty" so long as the player is helping the team.

But if it was a bench player who was perpetually having to fight for a roster spot every spring? That's an entirely different story.

31. streak of perros posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Open homosexuality is an affront to Christian culture, if not theology. It's a pagan practice and its acceptance is one more nail in the traditional coffin. Hunter's not coming out of left field, here, but undoubtedly expressing common Christian sentiment. I've certainly heard it from many sources.

32. JJ1986 posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:10 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If it's a perennial All-Star, even the most prejudiced would be able to put aside their "difficulty" so long as the player is helping the team.

I think if it were A-Rod or LeBron James or someone else equally despised then he might catch a lot more ####.

33. The District Attorney posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:17 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Torii's been a d-bag in a smiling press-friendly dumbass's clothing his whole career.

I tend to agree.

34. Swedish Chef posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:30 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think if it were A-Rod or LeBron James or someone else equally despised then he might catch a lot more ####.

Well, coming out would be one surefire way for A-Rod to get good publicity for once.

35. Best Dressed Chicken in Town posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think the last league to have a gay player come out (or be "out" before being drafted) will be the NBA.

Was Jon Amaechi out when he was playing, or not until after?

(Or am I just imagining that he's even gay?....)

36. Gamingboy posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:36 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think if it were A-Rod or LeBron James or someone else equally despised then he might catch a lot more ####.

Okay, that's true. But what if it was somebody like Mike Trout or Kevin Durant?

(Note: I am not saying that Mike Trout or Kevin Durant are gay. Not like I'd have a problem with that.)

37. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:38 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Well, coming out would be one surefire way for A-Rod to get good publicity for once.

AROD, if you're reading this, and you're gay, STAY IN THE CLOSET. Not for your sake, but for the sake of all the other gay folks on the planet. Because we really don't need to give Ralph Reed and company the "centaur" angle, Chief.

38. Comic Strip Person posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:40 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I'm not a theologian either, but I am a pastor. Getting Christians to think clearly about sexuality (all sexuality) is really difficult work. And since most of what passes for "public theology" from Christians is a lousy representation of historic biblical teaching on sexuality, talking to non-Christians about sexuality is pretty difficult, too.
I think Torii should keep in mind that every person in his locker room does and says things that make God "uncomfortable", including Torii Hunter. And yet, God loves those people anyway, and points them toward a way of life that will result in peace and wholeness. If Torii focuses on following that example, everything will work out in God's timing.
And, I think Christians, including Torii Hunter, should get used to not being in the majority, and accept that this ultimately leads to greater discomfort than sharing a locker room with other millionaires who do things you find distasteful.

39. Gamingboy posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

On the inverse of the claim that the NBA will be the last league to have an out player, I'm going to guess that the NFL will be the first. Simply because the shorter careers, slightly larger amount of teams, and larger rosters mean there are far more candidates who'd have an opportunity to do so.

40. Gonfalon Bubble posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:43 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

And as I looked along the sand, I saw that sometimes there were two sets of footprints side by side, but at other times there was only one. And I realized that the single set of footprints coincided with some of the most painful and uncomfortable moments of my life. So I said, "Why did you abandon me during the times when I was laid low?" In a soft voice came the answer: "Those were the times I was banging the shit out of you. Sorry about the sand and grit, beach sex is way overrated."

41. Joe Kehoskie posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:44 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I also believe that as soon as one person does, it'll open up the flood gates and many more will in the next 5 years after that.

I'm not sure about the "flood gates" part. It seems like someone would have been outed by now if there were more than a very small number of closeted gays in the Big Four sports.

42. Der_K posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:46 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

29 - exactly.
35 - amaechi was not out during his career. Probably best that he wasn't that trailblazer - unpopular dude who was regarded as soft.
38 - what sect/denomination?

43. J.R. Wolf posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Tolerance includes tolerating the ALL of the political, religious and lifestyle views and viewpoints of others, not just those of atheists, agnosticists and Leftists. Being intolerant of Christians and conservatives is intolerance on a level that is every bit as bad as them being intolerant of homosexuals.

I'm a tolerant political moderate, and some of you people need to be constantly aware that when you are being intolerant of people who are intolerant of homosexuals you are - no kidding - being every bit as intolerant and self-righteous as they are.

People have the right to choose to be what they want and to hold whatever opinions they choose to hold, no matter whether they are Left, Right or centrist or if they are atheists, agnostics, or believers. And that specifically includes the right to be intolerant in ways that you don't approve of.

44. streak of perros posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

#38 -- thanks. I'm more interested in hearing the practicing Christian perspective than bbtf heathens teaching theology.

45. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:52 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

There can be no constructive conversation on the matter. One side is completely bigoted and wrong.

"I know you are, but what am I?" :-)

This is such a counterproductive starting point for any dialogue. "You are a bigot. Nice to meet you."

Pretending there are valid arguments for their position to have constructive conversation about just enables them, and allows them to propagate that viewpoint. Shaming them repeatedly, so they realize that those views have no place in a modern society, and future generations grow up knowing it is wrong, is about as constructive as you can get.

I have gay friends that like I very much like and respect. I also believe, as a Catholic, that homosexual behavior is a sin against God. We're all sinners, and I certainly have my hands full with my own weaknesses. That's my top priority rather than judging other people. Christians would do well to remember that homosexuality is a sin rather than the sin of all sins. So, while I may be "completely bigoted and wrong" in your view, I am also sympathetic toward homosexuals for how they are scapegoated.

I would never treat a gay person differently than anyone else. We all deserve respect and dignity. Torii Hunter doesn't speak for all Christians, and I hope you'll also rethink the wisdom of "shaming" people.

46. Eddo posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:53 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I'm a tolerant political moderate, and some of you people need to be constantly aware that when you are being intolerant of people who are intolerant of homosexuals you are - no kidding - being every bit as intolerant and self-righteous as they are.

Obligatory XKCD response.

47. Eddo posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

That's my top priority rather than judging other people. Christians would do well to remember that homosexuality is a sin rather than the sin of all sins. So, while I may be "completely bigoted and wrong" in your view, I am also sympathetic toward homosexuals for how they are scapegoated.

This is a really good way to put it. Homosexuality is a sin in most (all?) Christian denominations. The right way to gain tolerance is not to fight that - Christian dogma and beliefs are unlikely to change.

It's to remind those who are intolerant that homosexuals are just like any other sinners - which includes everyone on the planet - and go from there.

48. streak of perros posted on December 30, 2012 at 10:59 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Takes a lot of time to push away the nonsense. Take my compassion, push it as far as it goes. My interest level's dropping, my interest level is dropping. I've heard all I want to, I don't want to hear any more.

49. Answer Guy posted on December 30, 2012 at 11:08 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Like in the New England Patriots’ locker room. Earlier this season linebacker Brandon Spikes sent out a tweet claiming to be homophobic “just like I’m arachnophobic. I have nothing against homosexuals or spiders but I’d still scream if I found one in my bathtub.”

I promise not to sneak into Brandon Spikes' bathtub.

50. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle posted on December 30, 2012 at 11:11 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Christians would do well to remember that homosexuality is a sin rather than the sin of all sins.

Well, technically *being gay* is not a sin. Acting on your homosexual desires is. At least that's more or less official dogma these days. It's not a sin to exist as a gay person. It's a sin to have "objectively disordered" sex. Which encompasses all gay sex.

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Thursday, May 23, 2013

Leyland breaks his own rule, lets Verlander get win after delay

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