What about the Yankees? He could catch half time and DH the other. He'd be a huge upgrade at both spots for them. Plus his hair is flake free which is what Derek Jeter needs in a wingman.

He won't get traded because the Twins aren't suicidal enough to let their one marketable player go away. Also, 99% of the time these trade waiver things are just standard just-in-case things. He may not be the sacred cow anymore since he doesn't hit for power and is now "merely" an average guy, but I don't see the Twins sending him anywhere, especially with an All-Star Game coming up in 2014, in which they'd no doubt want a certain hometown boy to be the symbol.

He won't get traded because the Twins aren't suicidal enough to let their one marketable player go away. Also, 99% of the time these trade waiver things are just standard just-in-case things.

But I thought it was his fault the Twins are terrible. They would do well to cut out the cancer...

I can't imagine a small market team like the Red Sox taking on that sort of financial obligation.

They should at least try.

Your move, Alderson!

Your move, Alderson!

You just triggered Fred Wilpon's angina. What a jerk you are!

I hope he enjoys Los Angeles, where Ned Colleti has the enter key stuck on the keyboard he look at the waiver wire with or something

Wouldn't Mauer at C be a great thing for just about any team except the Giants, Cardinals and Orioles?

Wouldn't Mauer at C be a great thing for just about any team except the Giants, Cardinals and Orioles?

How many 30 year old catchers with 142 million owed are great things?

Johan Santana is available.

He actually makes a fair amount of sense for the Orioles as a 1b. They have a hole there and some payroll flexibility. But that's a huge risk given his health, and he loses a lot of value at 1b of course.

Even at first base he's probably a $15-$18 million player at his current level of production if he can actually play ~150 games a year. The contract is just too damn long.

Mauer has a full no-trade clause and he doesn't want to leave.

Right, it's too long a contract and he's less valuable if not a full time catcher.

But the Red Sox cleared a bunch of payrolls and need some better players. Who will they sign? There will be plausible reasons not to sign anyone to a big contract but if you always give into those reasons, you'll never have a long run of success.

this contract went south fast, comparing the present thread to this thread.

Mauer has a full no-trade clause and he doesn't want to leave.

Your facts are not relevant!

Your move, Alderson!

How badly do you want Wright gone? Besides, we have a catcher who can hit home runs now (as of last night), so I think we're all set there.

And Davis, though his overall numbers just can't rebound from how terrible he was in April/May/early June. From June 9 on, he has been one of the league's most productive 1B.

this contract went south fast, comparing the present thread to this thread.


As usual, Ray was the voice of reason.

Its a shame about the whole new leaner Yankees b/c boy would he be a good fit in NY.

His contract is not so bad. And 29 is not old. If he were a free agent this offseason, he probably wouldn't do much worse than the 6/$138m he will have left.

The thing with the Mauer contract is perception. When he signed it, it was hoped he'd continue to hit for power and be a perennial MVP candidate. Instead, he's regressed back to being a hit-for-average and get-on-base guy who is a perennial All-Star, but not a perennial MVP candidate.

How badly do you want Wright gone? Besides, we have a catcher who can hit home runs now (as of last night), so I think we're all set there.

Oh, mine was more of a jokey meme thing, I don't really see Mauer as much of an option or benefit to us, he's made for the DL.

That being said, Shoppach is not a HR hitter, please don't even start with that.

Are there any current contracts, not buying out arbitration years, that we think are good deals? The fact that just about every superstar contract is claimed to be negative value makes me think maybe we don't value these contracts properly.

Mauer’s hitting .309/.403/.425 with eight home runs this season and if he went to Boston, he could serve in the Victor Martinez role as a DH, first baseman and sometimes catcher.

I love Mauer as a player, but the Victor Martinez role is not worth $23 mil per. The contract looked like an overpay at the time, and looks like one even moreso now. He has only caught 114 games over the past two years.

The fact that just about every superstar contract is claimed to be negative value makes me think maybe we don't value these contracts properly.

Winner's curse.

Are there any current contracts, not buying out arbitration years, that we think are good deals?

Maybe: A-Gon, Holliday, Miguel Cabrera, Halladay, Konerko, David Ortiz, CJ Wilson....

That being said, Shoppach is not a HR hitter, please don't even start with that.

2 already for the Mets-- double Thole's output in 280 less ABs. My standards for "power-hitting catcher" have been recalibrated after a couple of seasons watching Josh Thole.

We're in year 2 of an 8 year deal and he is basically the player you hoped to not be getting until the back end of the deal: a part-time catcher, 1B, DH with durability issues who still hits pretty well.

You hoped to be getting that kind of a player in year 6 or 7 of the deal, after getting several top catcher years out of him.

Are there any current contracts, not buying out arbitration years, that we think are good deals? The fact that just about every superstar contract is claimed to be negative value makes me think maybe we don't value these contracts properly.

Boston just sent one out, that was thought to be an asset, you know the one they used to dump the other 2.

Other than that, off the top of my head, without doing too much fact checking:
Miguel Cabrera
CC Sabathia
Matt Kemp
Tulo
Jeter
Holliday
Halladay
Torii Hunter
Weaver
Matt Cain

Edit: stale coke

I love Mauer as a player, but the Victor Martinez role is not worth $23 mil per. The contract looked like an overpay at the time, and looks like one even moreso now. He has only caught 114 games over the past two years.

OTOH, catcher is the one position where what I like to think of as "positional leverage" really counts. I.e., you can use Mauer as a DH in a lot of AL games, but you can use him at C in interleague and, most importantly, in the playoffs (in order to get a bat in at DH). If Mauer is twice as valuable on a per-game basis at C compared to at DH, you can use that value in higher leverage situations.

brewer fans are feeling pretty ok about the braun contract

That being said, Shoppach is not a HR hitter, please don't even start with that.

Hitting home runs is like the one offensive skill Shoppach has.

The fact that just about every superstar contract is claimed to be negative value makes me think maybe we don't value these contracts properly.

There's a decent case to be made that all of the recent 1B/DH megadeals will turn out to be bad or very bad*: Prince, Tex, AGon, Pujols (who am I forgetting?). It might be that "we" are valuing these contracts perfectly well, and that these guys are on bad deals (for the clubs).

*I'm obviously jumping the gun; I'm saying there's a strong chance they'll turn out that way, but we need a few years to know for sure.

Prince, Tex, AGon, Pujols (who am I forgetting?).

Cabrera, Votto, Howard.

He's a year younger than A-Gon, almost as good a hitter and a catcher. Go for it, Sox! We can trade Salty, dump Fatso and split catcher, DH and 1B between Mauer and Lavarnway.

Boston just sent one out, that was thought to be an asset, you know the one they used to dump the other 2.

MCoA's analysis said that there was negative value in his contract. Most people described his contract as "fair", though it's unclear exactly what everyone meant (and they likely all meant something different.

Didn't most of those contracts include buying out arb years? Which means you basically can only get this player if you develop him, maybe if you trade for him towards the end of his arb years. A few names on that list were just free agents, but it seems like the minority of big free agent deals.

I know when fangraphs calculated the marginal cost of a win, they saw that the cost was linear (a 6-win player cost twice as much per year as a 3-win player). They also noted that the 6-win player gets a longer contract, and presumably that's where the non-linearity was. Did they follow that up?

He's a year younger than A-Gon, almost as good a hitter and a catcher. Go for it, Sox! We can trade Salty, dump Fatso and split catcher, DH and 1B between Mauer and Lavarnway.

But they can't afford him because the Sox will be forced to have a small payroll because of John Henry's hedge fund like they have for the past 8 years.

Mauer is such a good idea that if they don't do it it will prove my point about Henry's hedge fund.

Think about the two deals combined: they would have upgraded A-Gon slightly to Mauer, dumped the Beckett and Crawford contracts and got a bunch of decent prospects. Now THAT would be good management.

Which is why they won't do it. Duquette would have.

Mauer is such a good idea that if they don't do it it will prove my point about Henry's hedge fund.

Ha Ha. What did the Sox' payrolls in each of the last 7 years prove about your 'point,' which you have been making annually since 2005?

You know, Dan Duquette is back in the league, so he'll have a chance to do it.

Also, you guys joke about the Dodgers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a claim.

From Cots. The ten most lucrative contracts in baseball history, including my back of the envelope assessment of whether the deals were wins or losses, followed by some of the more disastrous ones (IMO) of my choosing (AGonzalez notwithstanding). I have always loved that ARod shows up twice:

loss? 1. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17)
win 2. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10)
? 3. Albert Pujols, $240,000,000 (2012-21)
? 4. Joey Votto, $225,000,000 (2014-23)
? 5. Prince Fielder, $214,000,000 (2012-20)
win 6. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10)
loss? 7. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18)
loss? 8. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16)
win? 9. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15)
win 10. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08)
----
13. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18)
16. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17)
17. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11)
19. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14)
21. Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14)
. . . Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13)
. . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17)
24. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16)
26. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08)
31. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08)
. . . Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12)
37. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12)

Mauer is such a good idea that if they don't do it it will prove my point about Henry's hedge fund.

Naw, I keep telling you people, Liverpool needs a striker!

John Henry's yacht was parked by the Boston Harbor Hotel this weekend. It's still really big and shiny. He still owns Liverpool. His hedge funds aren't killing him just yet.

I can't believe more people don't have KM on ignore.

Griffey produced just 12 WAR (19 oWAR) during the life of that deal.

If the Rockies missed Todd Helton, the combo of his decline phase and contract, Mauer would be the perfect replacement at 1B.

Again from Cots. Two categories relevant to Mauer, if he were to become essentially a DH:

The highest-paid designated hitters, by average annual value:
1. David Ortiz, $14,575,000 (2012)
2. Travis Hafner, $14,250,000 (2009-12)
3. Jim Thome, $14,166,667 (2003-08)
4. Gary Sheffield, $14,000,000 (2008-09)
. . . Adam Dunn, $14,000,000 (2011-14)
6. David Ortiz, $13,000,000 (2007-10)
7. David Ortiz, $12,500,000 (2011)
7. Victor Martinez, $12,500,000 (2011-14)

You see what the Victor Martinez role was actually valued at. Granted Mauer could play that role much better, but $23 mil is still a vast overpay.

It's to be noted that the best 1B are paid $25 mil per, but the problem there is that Mauer doesn't hit like them.

Here's the catchers list:

1. Joe Mauer, $23,000,000 (2011-18)
2. Yadier Molina, $15,000,000 (2013-17)
3. Jorge Posada, $13,100,000 (2008-11)
4. Mike Piazza, $13,000,000 (1999-2005)
5. Miguel Montero, $12,000,000 (2013-17)
6. Jason Varitek, $10,000,000 (2005-08)
. . . Ivan Rodriguez, $10,000,000 (2004-07)
. . . Jason Kendall, $10,000,000 (2002-07)
9. Mike Napoli, $9,400,000 (2012)
10. Ivan Rodriguez, $8,500,000 (1999-2002)
11. Joe Mauer, $8,250,000 (2007-10)

I mean, his contract is up in the stratosphere there.

Mauer has a full no-trade clause and he doesn't want to leave.

Glad to read that. Some players just should not be moved. Mauer is a local boy and on his way to the HOF and should have only a Twins cap on.

Like Ripken with the Orioles, Gwynn with the Padres, Yount with the Brewers, Brett with the Royals, Jeter with the Yankees, Chapel with the Tigers, Walker with the Expos (d'oh)...Some things just should not be messed with.

Can't complain too much when your team gets a great player, but maybe the baseball gods are not exactly pleased with Arte for taking el Hombre out of St. Louis.

Also, the thing about Henry's hedge fund is a red herring since the Red Sox don't operate at a loss. I really doubt the other investors in FSG are going to let Henry pull money from the Sox to prop up a failing hedge fund. Not buying that at all.

I love Mauer as a player, but the Victor Martinez role is not worth $23 mil per. The contract looked like an overpay at the time, and looks like one even moreso now. He has only caught 114 games over the past two years.

Not being a fan of an AL team, I had no idea Mauer was catching that little. If he can only catch half of his team's games, $23 milion a year is definitely out of line with his on the field production.

That being said, I don't know that you should trade him. You're unlikely to get value back for anyone with a contract that size. And as a local boy, the Twins have additional PR reasons to keep him around.

I just hope the Braves are paying attention, and keep this in mind when McCann's contract is up. I'm a big McCann fan, but...