you’ll look back on this in retrospect someday

As opposed to looking forward in retrospect...

back on this in retrospect

I know, don't you hate that! I don't know how many times I've heard or seen in print something like "I bought a shirt, but I don't like it so I'm going to return it back to the store."

Americans truly are the most provincial boobs on Earth.

USA vs. Dominican Republic tomorrow for a trip to the final four in SF. First meeting between these two ever in the classic. Hownany baseball fan could not want to watch is very odd to me...

WJ - I really don't understand how baseball fans don't like this tournament. I can understand the arguments against it (injury concerns, etc..) but these things happen in Spring Training games too. I've said it before and I'll keep beating it to death; baseball is great thus the WBC is great.

Japan has won the two previous WBCs, Cuba and South Korea were runners-up, and Venezuela and the Dominican Republic finished in the top four. There have been, over the past six years, increasingly tough teams from Taiwan, Australia, Italy and Spain.

What has Canada got to do to get a mention? They've, you know, shown up to all three tournaments. That's gotta be worth something!

My question is: Why does Bud Selig, commissioner of the American major leagues, give a hoot about “the internationalization of the sport?”

Generally speaking, the answer to "why is a for-profit business doing that?" is they think it's a worthwhile financial move. I notice Barra doesn't mention that as a possible reason.

I think it probably is an excellent long-term investment. There are billions of people who aren't in traditional baseball countries, and even if you convert a small percentage of them, that's a bunch of potential income. If anything, I'd argue that MLB should spend more time and money on internationalizing the sport than they already do. Their financial support for the Australian League is a good start, but I'd like to see them help the Dutch and Italian leagues to grow and improve. What could it possibly cost the owners, split 30 ways? The price of a crappy utility guy?

I can understand the arguments against it (injury concerns, etc..) but these things happen in Spring Training games too.

HOFer Ryne Sandberg, at the peak of his powers, had his career effectively ended by a spring training injury.

WJ - I really don't understand how baseball fans don't like this tournament. I can understand the arguments against it (injury concerns, etc..) but these things happen in Spring Training games too. I've said it before and I'll keep beating it to death; baseball is great thus the WBC is great.

I was having the same argument with a colleague last week -- he's a huge baseball fan, but hasn't watched a since WBC game and couldn't care less about it. I don't understand the mindset - it's baseball in early March where the scores actually count. He said he'd rather watch a spring training game... I watch spring games, too, if that's all I've got available, but if you have a game with recognizable players actually trying to win (minus Joe Torre, I guess), why wouldn't you choose the latter?

There's plenty I wish was different about the WBC, but I'd much rather have it in its current form than not at all.

WJ - I really don't understand how baseball fans don't like this tournament. I can understand the arguments against it (injury concerns, etc..) but these things happen in Spring Training games too. I've said it before and I'll keep beating it to death; baseball is great thus the WBC is great.

Solely from an American fan's perspective, I think that holding the WBC in the Spring makes fans far less likely to care than if it were held in a warm weather site in the late Fall after the World Series. Most fans will pay less attention to a new event like WBC than Spring Training, and they don't pay much attention to Spring Training exhibition games.

There are billions of people who aren't in traditional baseball countries, and even if you convert a small percentage of them, that's a bunch of potential income.

If we can get China to go baseball crazy, there will be a golden era for second basemen, the likes of which we have never seen.

I enjoy watching the WBC but don't take it very seriously. If the MLB playoffs are akin to a crapshoot, then you may as will be playing rock, paper, scissor during this tournament.

I'm with #11. Its cool, I like seeing international competition, but I can't put this on par with the World Series.

The WBC is just a replacement for the Olympics, except that actual MLB players get to participate and the US team isn't made up of minor leaguers and the occasional college player. It's not the World Series but it gives you a chance to see other countries' pros (or the pros you remember from MLB and the minors who end up playing in Asia, which applies to a lot of the non-USA Western pitchers in this tournament.)

Americans truly are the most provincial boobs on Earth.

USA vs. Dominican Republic tomorrow for a trip to the final four in SF. First meeting between these two ever in the classic. How any baseball fan could not want to watch is very odd to me...

Maybe it's just because we've already seen the best Dominican players in the Majors, playing for teams we actually care about, and because some of us don't give a #### about who wins a series of exhibition games involving fly-by-night "teams" whose rosters are often padded by ethnicity rather than citizenship. OTOH I can see why Dominicans would see it as big deal.

AFAIC there's one benefit to the WBC, period: It might make scouting for MLB teams a bit easier.

Is it just me, or are the WBC games incredibly long? I've been watching most of the night games, and the average game has been over 3.5 hours, with none under 3 hours. Yes, they're high scoring. But it seems like the commercial breaks are also interminably long. Conspiratorially so?

Is it just me, or are the WBC games incredibly long? I've been watching most of the night games, and the average game has been over 3.5 hours, with none under 3 hours. Yes, they're high scoring. But it seems like the commercial breaks are also interminably long. Conspiratorially so?

I think -- especially for teams with pitchers who would normally be in spring training right now -- it really has a lot to do with pitching changes... I've tivoed most and sped through the commercials, but I think the game times are a function of the more-than-normal number of pitching changes (normal vs a regular season game).

I wonder how much more the average American might care if the US team actually could, you know, win a few games. I think if the US made it to the finals in one of the past ones then a bit more national pride might be on the line and get people more excited. When the US teams flops out before the semi's each time (and nearly ended up having to qualify for the next one) it takes away a lot of interest because then fans just go 'well, players dont care obviously so why should I'. Meanwhile players for other countries fight as hard as they can to win each game, taking pride because they know people assume the US is #1 and other countries want to prove they are just as good if not better. Japan takes tons of pride obviously, Canadian players do too (with the obvious exception of the catcher who wants to be a shortstop) and I suspect the same is true for other countries. Remember a few years back when Roger Clemens wanted to play for team USA in the Olympics? That is the attitude we need to make this become big in the US.

However, the #1 goal is to make it big everywhere else. To make it so MLB teams can sell merchandise in places like Europe. That is the big plus of getting a couple of European teams into the 2nd round this year as it cannot hurt to show people in those countries that their athletes can compete with the best (even if many are US players who have some tie to those countries). Hopefully someday the US fans will get into international competition outside of the Olympics.

"I bought a shirt, but I don't like it so I'm going to return it back to the store."

How about "Can you repeat that again?".

Or "revert back to".

Are me too posts okay?

#13 got it exactly right.

This is the Olympics but better.

I bought a shirt, but I don't like it so I'm going to return it back to the store."

How about "Can you repeat that again?".

Or "revert back to".

That's all past history.

He said he'd rather watch a spring training game... I watch spring games, too, if that's all I've got available, but if you have a game with recognizable players actually trying to win (minus Joe Torre, I guess), why wouldn't you choose the latter?

A lot of fans root for the team, not the players or the game. I suspect he'd rather watch spring training because he could see his team play. The current US team in the WBC was collected out of nowhere and will disperse to nowhere after the tournament. Sure, some people like rooting for the red, white and blue no matter the faces, but that's not true of everyone.

That's all past history.

"I forgot my PIN number for the ATM machine."

WJ - I really don't understand how baseball fans don't like this tournament.

It's spring training, only worse. If they were going all out to win it -- and by "they" I mean the real players, those talented enough to be in the majors -- then I'd care. But as it is now, you've got a bunch of no talent hacks who couldn't make the majors or are fringe players going all out -- sliding hard into bases, calling for batters to be hit, etc. -- while the real major leaguers who bothered to show up are taking it easy and trying not to get hurt.

That's my problem.

The managers responsible for major leaguers are taking it easy with those players, and the major leaguers are simply prepping for the real games and trying not to get hurt. Running counter to that are jackasses who are sliding hard into second basemen and calling for batters to be beaned.

Half the players are trying like hell, and half the players are scrimmaging, and we're just hoping none of the real players get injured, and the whole thing is an utter farce. You've got two tiers of players: talentless hacks trying as hard as they can, and talented players just trying not to get hurt by the talentless hacks. Why anyone would be interested in this foolishness, I have no idea. This is not baseball. Baseball is when everyone on the field has similar goals and incentives.

Teams who are sending good major leaguers to this - no, Nick Punto, not you - ought to have their heads examined.

Ray, I'm not sure I get your point. Could you restate it again?

Ray, I'm not sure I get your point. Could you restate it again?

He hates puppies

The Caribbean World Series has the best of both worlds: national pride and real teams.

talentless hacks trying as hard as they can, and talented players just trying not to get hurt by the talentless hacks.

This sounds more entertaining than both talentless hacks and talented players not really trying, which is what spring training is.

Any tournament where many of the best players available don't show up, and those who do don't all have the same purpose, is pretty pointless.

You know what else is pointless? Fun. No one should bother to have any.

He said he'd rather watch a spring training game... I watch spring games, too, if that's all I've got available, but if you have a game with recognizable players actually trying to win (minus Joe Torre, I guess), why wouldn't you choose the latter?

I've seen plenty of regular posters on this board state they aren't watching the playoffs after their team is eliminated. Or stop when their team is out of it. It boggles my mind, but, clearly, most "baseball" fans are fans of a particular team, not the sport. The same goes for people who don't want to watch baseball at a level lower than the majors.

I'm a purist old fart, I suppose, but I'll watch any baseball game between any well matched groups anywhere, anytime. There is nothing finer than sitting out on a warm summer night watching a game - being it the 27 Yankees or a little league game.

Given all that, I'm interested in the WBC and have enjoyed the games I've seen. But the simple fact is, there is a lot on everyone's plate. I can only set out large chunks of time for watching sports on TV a few times a year. The WBC, thus far, doesn't get that from me.

And, yes, the games are too damned long.

why would bud selig care?

this is a question? good grief. when there are questions concerning bud selig, there is only 1 answer - follow the money. all he cares about is getting more $$$ for the owners and this WBC increases money coming in from mlbam.

it's that simple

as for why don't americans care?
about what?
watching games on a channel most of us don't have in the middle of the night?
watching players we usually get to watch during the season for 6-7 months

and lots of us don't like DH ball

It always seems like those who have this seemingly intense hatred for the WBC have never actually watched one of the games, and things like evidence are discarded. The players don't care and aren't trying? "no talent hacks calling for players to be hit" - you mean the starting 3rd baseman for the Dodgers is a no-talent fringe player?

The 2009 Dominican Republic / Netherlands elimination game is one of the greatest games I've ever watched, and I have MLB Network pretty much exclusively on my TV year round, watched nearly every MLB playoff game in the last 20 years, been to a World Series clincher, a no-hitter, and the A-Rod/Varitek fight game. Some of the WBC games this year will be the best games of the year. If you're not interested in the WBC, that's fine. But the hatred for it some people seem to have is just silly.

Why does Bud Selig, commissioner of the American major leagues, give a hoot about “the internationalization of the sport?” Does he think this will help produce more talent for American pro teams, the way the increased popularity of basketball in Spain and France has produced top players like Pau Gasol and Tony Parker? Or does he think that the internationalization of the game is going to lead to him, Bud Selig, being elected commissioner of all the world’s professional baseball leagues?

"The internationalization of the sport" means "we want to be world wide like soccer is world wide." There is only one truly international sport, and that is soccer. Baseball is trying to create a World Cup type event to pull more nations into baseball. MLB and other independent leagues are supporting that because individual leagues benefit from the heightened profile of the game itself. The EPL supports the World Cup because it's good for the EPL when millions of humans love soccer. La Liga supports the World Cup because it's beneficial to them to have millions of Lionel Messi fans following Barca.

MLB supports the WBC because MLB wants baseball to be the next big thing after soccer, because it's beneficial to MLB to have millions of Japanese fans following Ichiro! MLB wants millions of Argentines to follow someone from Argentina in MLB too. And MLB really, really wants the NBA to be third in line, rather than second in line, as is the case today with internationalized sports.

Do spring training games get that many viewers, either? It would seem there's a lot of baseball fans who aren't watching spring training or the WBC. Root Sports Rocky Mountain doesn't even bother to televise most of the Rockies' spring training games.

My personal thought is that the WBC is one programming option out of thousands that is watched by some people and not by others.

Root Sports Rocky Mountain doesn't even bother to televise most of the Rockies' spring training games.

I can't even find DODGERS spring training games on TV.

World Cup type event - or Olympics replacement (where MLB has more control over the rules, rather than an obstinant IOC).

It's really fun baseball.

watching games on a channel most of us don't have in the middle of the night?

Do cable gremlins steal your service?

Any tournament where many of the best players available don't show up, and those who do don't all have the same purpose, is pretty pointless.

And yet people still watch MLS.

Do cable gremlins steal your service?

MLB Network isn't part of the base package in some/ a lot of places.

If people didn't watch pointless things, I assume TV wouldn't exist.

MLB Network isn't part of the base package in some/ a lot of places.

I think you missed the joke

There are so many different anti-WBC arguments and all but one of them are stupid.

1) What's the deal? America might not win! What kind of tournament is this, it's just random.

Response: Have you seen the last 40 years of the MLB playoffs?

2) What's the deal? Why are all these teams that suck in here? Who wants to see them?

Response: That's what every international sports tournament is like.

3) This has no tradition.

Response: Yes, things that are new have no tradition. But if it gets to be old, then it will have tradition.

4) The stands aren't full, unless the home team is playing!

Response: That's what every international sports tournament is like, except, literally, the World Cup. And even that had empty seats in South Africa. The stands were half empty at a lot of the Euro 2012 soccer games. The stands are usually 9/10 empty at the African Nations Cup.

5) People aren't watching on TV!

Response: It's on the MLB Network in the middle of the night! What do you want?

6) It's on the MLB Network in the middle of the night! How can we take this seriously?

Response: That's what all international sports tournaments are like. Because of the structure of the solar system, it is the middle of the night in some places, but daylight in others.

7) Players might get injured!

Response: That's what all international sports tournaments are like. Also, players have been known to get injured in spring training.

8) These are exhibition games!

Response: That phrase has no meaning. A game is an exhibition game if people don't care about the outcome. It used to be that MLB teams cared about the outcome of some of their spring training games, for bragging rights or to gain confidence for the season or whatever. Now those are all "exhibition games". This metamorphosis occurred gradually.

9) They aren't playing to win!

Response: That's Joe Torre's fault. Get him out of there. Send him back to the casino autograph circuit.

10) The best players aren't there! They don't take it seriously!

Response: All professional athletes are subject to conflict between playing for the teams that play them, and playing for their country. All young players are concerned that they will fail to establish themselves in their pro careers if they don't prioritize it above all else. All old players are concerned that they might need rest and recuperation instead of playing extra games. Remember how the US basketball team was missing its top 8 frontcourt players or whatever at the 2012 Olympics?

11) Steve Cishek? Samuel Deduno? Come on.

Response: The best PITCHERS aren't there. That's true. This is intrinsic to the sport of baseball, that pitchers need low-stress work in spring training to be prepared for April. Maybe as the WBC gets more history, pitchers will prepare for it.

7) Players might get injured!

Response: That's what all international sports tournaments are like. Also, players have been known to get injured in spring training.

Are players in spring training games doing take-out slides at second base?

Are they beaning hitters?

I really don't think the typical baseball injury results from an act of aggression between players on the field of play.

Also, sure, in spring training a pitcher might bean a hitter if he thinks he's been breaking one of the unwritten stupid rules, overcelebrating or whatever.

Are players in spring training games doing take-out slides at second base?

Occasionally, yes (I'm looking at you Shelley Duncan, you big stupid ass).

Are they beaning hitters?

Occasionally, yes (I'm looking at you TLR, you regular-sized drunken ass).

Are players in spring training games doing take-out slides at second base?

A few years ago, in ST, some a**hole leveled Francisco Cervelli at home plate, putting him out for the season.

Also, no one is doing takeout slides in the WBC. Cano was standing on the base, and Punto slid into the base.

Does he think this will help produce more talent for American pro teams, the way the increased popularity of basketball in Spain and France has produced top players like Pau Gasol and Tony Parker?

Yes, unequivocally, yes he thinks this will happen.

Japan has won the two previous WBCs, Cuba and South Korea were runners-up, and Venezuela and the Dominican Republic finished in the top four. There have been, over the past six years, increasingly tough teams from Taiwan, Australia, Italy and Spain.

And MLB has been more successful because Japan, Cuba, South Korea, Venezuela, and the Dominican Republic are interested in and good at baseball. Why wouldn't the same be true as China and Brazil (maybe if he mentioned these two he would have seen how obvious the answer is) become more interested?

increasingly tough teams from Taiwan, Australia, Italy and Spain.

Unfortunately the Spain team is OF Spain, but not FROM Spain.

Unfortunately the Spain team is OF Spain, but not FROM Spain.

How different is this than Soccer's World Cup? Lot's of the European players aren't even ethnically French or German, they just moved there as professional athletes. If the WBC followed World Cup protocols, most of the Dominican team would be playing for the US.