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In answer to the questions I'll say that today is Mystery Team day. I predict Greinke signs tomorrow and Dickey will be traded next week.
Tomorrow is the day I wake up and see an update that something of significance happened at like 2AM while I slept. Two years ago that was Carl Crawford, hopefully if the Sox are involved it works better than that.
I feel like if the Mets decide to trade Dickey, the Royals are the most obvious destination. They have the money to extend him, enough valuable prospects to make the deal without selling the proverbial farm, and a desperate need for a good pitcher. I guess it depends somewhat on to what extent you share Rany's crazy optimism, but they look like a team that could win with a few good breaks and that division will never be more winnable.
I kind of feel like if Dickey is traded and it's not to the Royals and not for a ridiculous return, Dayton Moore was asleep at the switch.
I wonder if something like Dickey and a prospect to the Royals, Butler to the Orioles, and prospects (maybe Tillman and Schoop?) to the Mets would work.
I wonder if something like Dickey and a prospect to the Royals, Butler to the Orioles, and prospects (maybe Tillman and Schoop?) to the Mets would work.
Acquiring Dickey is a go-for-it-now move. If they're going for it now, why would the Royals trade away a 3-win bat with still unrealized upside?
I mean, "they're the Royals" is a plausible explanation, but it could justify pretty much any trade proposal.
I'm thinking something more like Lorenzo Cain and a couple of their good minor leaguers (i.e., anyone on their prospect list except Wil Myers) can get that deal done. They're still pretty deep in tradeable prospects, I think, and Cain is expendable since Myers needs to play and, let's face it, Jeff Francoeur isn't going anywhere so long as Dayton Moore is in charge.
I'm operating under the assumption that a big reason for the Myers and Butler trade talk is that Moore is under a lot of pressure produce a winning team ASAP (even if not an actual contender). And given that he's a knuckleballer, the Royals may feel that he can be effective for several more years and signed long term. Trading Butler frees up some salary (even though he's signed to a very reasonable contract).
I guess that's a variation on the "they're the Royals" argument, although I also think the royals could be a contender next year with a couple of lucky breaks. They have good position players and a great bullpen. With 2-3 decent starters they'll be in good shape, esp. in their division.
EDIT: And to respond to your point about trading away a 3 win bat...they may feel he's somewhat expendable with Myers coming up.
I'm under the assumption Myers' name is being bandied about because Dayton Moore is a horribly bad general manager who looks at his roster and thinks, "well, my outfield is set. Gordon, Cain, Francouer. And I'll be fired if we aren't contenders this year. Myers is expendable."
I also think there's a pretty good chance Alderson doesn't really need to trade Dickey, but is just sitting back and waiting to see if someone gets desperate and makes a stupid offer. Like Wil Myers, for instance.
And to respond to your point about trading away a 3 win bat...they may feel he's somewhat expendable with Myers coming up.
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.
So in other words, definitely don't rule out Moore doing it?
I'm thinking something more like Lorenzo Cain and a couple of their good minor leaguers
I know the Mets need someone to play CF in 2013, but Cain seems like precisely the type of player they should avoid as a return on Dickey. With that name, he sounds like he should be a good player, but there just isn't a lot in his record to suggest he will be.
Should avoid, maybe, but getting at least one player back who can start and be effective for them right now has to be tempting for them. Cain is a pretty sweet glove, too, last I checked, and sweet gloves have a way of making your pitchers look better than they are.
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.
Trading Butler makes perfect sense if you feel that you're going to get more value from the guy you acquire than you would from Butler. Dickey was a lot more valuable this year, and he might be next year (and going forward if he can be extended).
Should avoid, maybe, but getting at least one player back who can start and be effective for them right now has to be tempting for them.
Tempting in a bad way-- the return on Dickey should be all about getting back a potential impact player, and if that isn't going to happen, they should just hold him.
Cain is a pretty sweet glove, too, last I checked,
I haven't checked. How good are we talking? It seems like if you're prioritizing defense in order to help your pitchers, there should be cheap, glove-only talent floating around (I'm thinking Dyson would come cheap, can he field or is he limited to running fast?). If that means a hit to the offense for 2013 and 2014, that's fine, not like they're doing much anyway.
26.JJ1986 posted on December 04, 2012 at 02:54 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Just looked up Cain's plus/minus numbers in CF and they're awesome, actually. +14 in less than 500 innings last year, +13 in a similar sample for the Brewers in 2010. From what I recall scouts are high on his defense, too. Cain barely has to hit at all to have above-average value.
But seriously, he's still got that three-year stretch where he went to the World Series every year with a different team - and I was pretty well sold that he'd do it again at SOME point with the Braves. I could see throwing a few bucks at a futures bet on the 'Backs after a move like this. They're currently 40/1 to win the thing.
I can barely find an example of the Royals trading any prospects at all in the last few years. They traded Derrick Saito and Dan Cortes for Yuniesky Betancourt. They made some minor trades in which they lost such luminaries as Henry Arias, Erik Cordier, Jorge Vasquez, Zach McClellan and Danny Christensen. Then there was the much-lamented incident when they correctly decided to give up on Andy Sisco.
Maybe selling Donnie Murphy to the A's was a mistake. Or trading Jonah Bayliss for Mark Redman.
44.Gamingboy posted on December 04, 2012 at 06:20 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Apparently the Upton/Lee crazy talk was, well, just crazy talk.
45.Greg (U)K posted on December 04, 2012 at 06:21 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Other current rumours:
Ludwick to the Reds
Victorino to the Red Sox for 3/38
Dodgers shopping Harang and Capuano if they land Greinke
They made some minor trades in which they lost such luminaries as Henry Arias, Erik Cordier, Jorge Vasquez, Zach McClellan and Danny Christensen. Then there was the much-lamented incident when they correctly decided to give up on Andy Sisco.
Daniel Gutierrez was once a decent prospect that had a bar fight and they traded him a few weeks later for two Rangers non-prospects. Gutierrez quickly flamed out after that.
Dan Cortes was a bit of a prospect, although he lost much of his luster by the time he was dealt for Yuni.
JP Howell wasn't a prospect, but he went on to become pretty good, and the Royals got Joey Gathright for him. Ugh.
But no, Dayton hasn't really dealt too many prospects. He's not even that terrible at free agents really. His stupidity is in how to assemble a 25 man roster.
I love these mystery teams. How in the world do they keep themselves a secret?
50.Greg (U)K posted on December 04, 2012 at 06:36 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Alex Speier now reporting Victorino a done deal. The mystery team now turns its interest to Zack Greinke and figuring out how to televise their games without revealing who they are or where they play.
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1 2 >Tomorrow is the day I wake up and see an update that something of significance happened at like 2AM while I slept. Two years ago that was Carl Crawford, hopefully if the Sox are involved it works better than that.
If anybody does, I think it would be hilarious if it was Keith Law, considering how much he hates it there.
Is there anything Keith Law doesn't hate?
I kind of feel like if Dickey is traded and it's not to the Royals and not for a ridiculous return, Dayton Moore was asleep at the switch.
Hating things.
They should just throw in a minimum-salary year if he goes on the DL. That will probably work out well.
I mean, "they're the Royals" is a plausible explanation, but it could justify pretty much any trade proposal.
I guess that's a variation on the "they're the Royals" argument, although I also think the royals could be a contender next year with a couple of lucky breaks. They have good position players and a great bullpen. With 2-3 decent starters they'll be in good shape, esp. in their division.
EDIT: And to respond to your point about trading away a 3 win bat...they may feel he's somewhat expendable with Myers coming up.
I also think there's a pretty good chance Alderson doesn't really need to trade Dickey, but is just sitting back and waiting to see if someone gets desperate and makes a stupid offer. Like Wil Myers, for instance.
So in other words, definitely don't rule out Moore doing it?
Trading Butler makes perfect sense if you feel that you're going to get more value from the guy you acquire than you would from Butler. Dickey was a lot more valuable this year, and he might be next year (and going forward if he can be extended).
Dbacks sign Eric Hinske.
Mind. Blown.
Upton's days are surely numbered in Arizona, now.
But seriously, he's still got that three-year stretch where he went to the World Series every year with a different team - and I was pretty well sold that he'd do it again at SOME point with the Braves. I could see throwing a few bucks at a futures bet on the 'Backs after a move like this. They're currently 40/1 to win the thing.
Phillies and Diamondbacks are discussing Justin Upton for Cliff Lee. Money coming to AZ would also be involved.
I am very against this move.
LOLWUT????
Ha. Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
I am pleased to see that, even though I was beaten to the punch, it was met with the appropriate response.
What prospects has he traded away in dumb deals, or for that matter in any deal at all? I can't remember any.
Alfonso Soriano is available.
Not a prospect, and not the dumbest trade ever, but Melky Cabrera for Jonathan Sanchez didn't work out for KC.
He is far too good for the Mariners.
Maybe selling Donnie Murphy to the A's was a mistake. Or trading Jonah Bayliss for Mark Redman.
Ludwick to the Reds
Victorino to the Red Sox for 3/38
Dodgers shopping Harang and Capuano if they land Greinke
Daniel Gutierrez was once a decent prospect that had a bar fight and they traded him a few weeks later for two Rangers non-prospects. Gutierrez quickly flamed out after that.
Dan Cortes was a bit of a prospect, although he lost much of his luster by the time he was dealt for Yuni.
JP Howell wasn't a prospect, but he went on to become pretty good, and the Royals got Joey Gathright for him. Ugh.
But no, Dayton hasn't really dealt too many prospects. He's not even that terrible at free agents really. His stupidity is in how to assemble a 25 man roster.
But it was fun while it lasted, it truly was.
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