BBTF.org/m/yankees : Derek Jeter’s struggles in 1996 spring training almost cost the Yankees Mariano Rivera

Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Mitchell: Pedroia, Cano and Magical Thinking

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posted 1 day ago by Repoz to red sox, yankees | 23 comment(s)

Pedroiadolia: The psychological phenomenon of seeing wacko images on dirty uniforms.

The narratives around the two players, however, could not be different. Pedroia is almost the prototype of the over-achieving “scrappy” player. He is a 5’8” middle infielder who does the little things well. This ignores that he was also a second round draft choice who played baseball at a top baseball school. Cano, on the other hand is bigger, more athletic and does not project scrappiness at all. Throughout ...

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1. flournoy posted on March 10, 2013 at 05:21 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

For those who don't want to look it up, Fermin was released by the Mariners in mid-April, and the Yankees then signed him a couple of weeks later. They released him two weeks later.

2. John Northey posted on March 10, 2013 at 05:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Sigh... if only...

3. JE (Jason Epstein)

posted on March 10, 2013 at 05:46 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Sigh... if only...

So you're saying the Mariners would have converted Mo into a failed starter?

4. Mayor Blomberg posted on March 10, 2013 at 05:54 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

well played, JE

5. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) posted on March 10, 2013 at 05:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

no, he's saying that Steingrubber would have insisted on starting Fermin, because Jeter "spit the bit". Then in June, they trade him to Toronto for Dale Murray

6. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes posted on March 10, 2013 at 06:02 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

"So we were all, 'Well, we could put our top minor leaguer in there, our top pick in the 1992 draft, who'd been one of the highest-rated minor leaguers four years in a row, and who'd moved up every year after producing and improving every year... or we could get a 31-year-old who'd never hit much and had a significant injury history.' It really came down to how well the prospect played in a few exhibition games before the season started."

7. Walt Davis posted on March 10, 2013 at 07:24 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Wickman (and Gerald Williams) was traded later that year later for a PTBNL, Pat Listach and Graeme Lloyd. In an odd twist, Ricky Bones was the PTBNL in Aug 1996 and Listach returned to the Brewers in Oct 1996. How the heck does that work? I can understand "OK, Bones is too much we get Listach back" but it seems to violate at least the spirit of trade rules that the Yanks got to keep Listach until the season was over (but apparently returned before the playoffs). Was he on the DL? That would seem OK.

8. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) posted on March 10, 2013 at 07:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

How the heck does that work? I can understand "OK, Bones is too much we get Listach back" but it seems to violate at least the spirit of trade rules that the Yanks got to keep Listach until the season was over (but apparently returned before the playoffs). Was he on the DL? That would seem OK.

Listach arrived in NY with a broken foot. There was some to-do over whether or not the Brewers knew about that ahead of time, and I believe Bones got sent as some sort of compensation, and after the season Listach was returned to Milwaukee to simply end the whole thing.

9. Der_K posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:03 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Not the same, exactly, but a more recent version came in the Loux / Brigham trade this winter, to compensate for health issues with a prior deal (Brigham/Soto).

10. TVerik posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

a) he had some good qualities as well, but this represents the worst of Steinbrenner. "Trade those two HoFers for Felix Fermin!!!!"

b) wasn't he (GS) suspended at that time?

11. willcarrolldoesnotsuk posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Wow, Fermin's line the year before: 195/232/225. How much worse did Steinbrenner think Jeter could possibly be?

12. jyjjy posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:43 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Cano was almost traded like 11 times if I recall. God bless you Tony Womack.

13. jyjjy posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:44 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

a) he had some good qualities as well, but this represents the worst of Steinbrenner. "Trade those two HoFers for Felix Fermin!!!!"

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone imply Bob Wickman is a HOFer.

14. Tim D posted on March 10, 2013 at 08:56 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Hopefully Dave Dombrowski reads this and doesn't trade Nick Castellanos for Carlos Marmol. Back away from the edge, Dave.

15. PreservedFish posted on March 10, 2013 at 09:45 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't think it was a given that Jeter would stick at shortstop. IIRC at the time he was considered a very toolsy athletic defender but an error machine. You know how teams do this sometimes ... they decide a guy is not able to play a position and then it doesn't matter how bad the replacement is as long as he's considered defensively adequate.

16. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) posted on March 10, 2013 at 11:10 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Steinbrenner ordered Al Rosen to get rid of Guidry following a bad start in spring training 1977--Rosen just quietly ignored the request...

17. John Northey posted on March 10, 2013 at 11:33 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

The Jays had a trade for Guidry lined up in early 77 - for Bill Singer but the Jays ownership rejected it as Singer was a 'headliner' (sigh). Ah well. We did get McGriff and Collins a few years later for a few magic beans.

18. Dan posted on March 11, 2013 at 12:44 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Cano was almost traded like 11 times if I recall. God bless you Tony Womack.

Cano was actually one of the players Texas could have chosen as the PTBNL in the ARod trade. They took Joaquin Arias instead though.

19. Walt Davis posted on March 11, 2013 at 12:50 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Cano was almost traded like 11 times if I recall.

Well, he was blocked by future HoFer D'Angelo Jimenez

20. Howie Menckel posted on March 11, 2013 at 12:54 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Count Da Ring - Arias played in 112 G for the Giants last year and went 3 for 6 with 2 doubles in beating the Reds in NLDS.

So Cano and Arias are even there...

21. Gonfalon Bubble posted on March 11, 2013 at 07:23 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Re: #16--
It was Gabe Paul who told Steinbrenner that he would quit if the team traded Guidry, and then tell the press why.

22. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) posted on March 11, 2013 at 09:14 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I believe Cano was also one of the items the Yankees had on the Randy Johnson pu pu platter for Arizona.

23. bunyon posted on March 11, 2013 at 10:42 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Said Steinbrenner at the time, "But he can't go to his left!"

24. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on March 11, 2013 at 10:54 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I always enjoy thinking about these what if trades. I'm pretty sure Jon Lester was supposed to be part of the Red Sox ARod deal and every team has its similar situations.

25. Shibal posted on March 11, 2013 at 12:49 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

You think Cashman would be telling this story if Steinbrenner was still alive?

Funny story, but I'd fire any guy who pissed on my dad's grave like that. Get er done Hank.

26. Swoboda is freedom posted on March 11, 2013 at 02:14 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

You think Cashman would be telling this story if Steinbrenner was still alive?

Funny story, but I'd fire any guy who pissed on my dad's grave like that. Get er done Hank.

How do you think Cashman got the broken foot? You didn't believe that phony parachute story? That was just his first warning.

27. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora posted on March 11, 2013 at 03:34 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

The 1980s and earlier Steinbrenner would have gotten his back up when he got push back like this and not only traded for Fermin, but would have made sure that Jeter never played for the Yankees... It's a pity he actually mellowed out as he got older and was more willing to listen to others.

28. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) posted on March 11, 2013 at 03:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

How do you think Cashman got the broken foot? You didn't believe that phony parachute story? That was just his first warning

"This comes from Big George, Cashman. See you in hell!".

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Mitchell: Pedroia, Cano and Magical Thinking

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Yankees Think Factory