Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Bullpen Mechanics > Discussion
Bullpen Mechanics
— A Scout's View

Thursday, March 15, 2007

Bringin’ Some Serious Cheese: Rich Harden

Here’s the link to the article at THT.

Questions/comments are always welcome.

ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 15, 2007 at 12:01 PM | 15 comment(s)
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 15, 2007 at 12:06 PM (#2312444)
Hope you all enjoy this review of Rich Harden.
   2. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: March 15, 2007 at 01:05 PM (#2312457)
Mr. Harden: Forget "getting to the balance position and then going forward." You're stopping your momentum by doing so. See how Lincecum above is drifting forward slightly before he's gotten to the top of his knee lift? He has begun applying force sooner.

Could Harden gain some MPH if he followed your advice? Not "would," just "could."
   3. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 15, 2007 at 01:11 PM (#2312459)
I stopped myself short of saying that on the article. The scary answer to that question is "yes, he could very well add velocity if he did." Of course, the move has to be done right. However, the immediate help would be that he could spread out the force over a slightly longer period of time.
   4. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 15, 2007 at 01:14 PM (#2312461)
That is a STUPID aggressive "stepover," and I love it.

Is the "stupid" part specific to something about Harden's stepover, or just a general editorial comment?
   5. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 15, 2007 at 01:28 PM (#2312474)
In the first clip Harden's torso seems almost vertical -- he doesn't seem to be bending his back at all on the follow through. Is that unusual? Could that cause problems?
   6. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 15, 2007 at 01:38 PM (#2312482)
"stupid aggressive"---there's aggressive, very aggressive, uber aggressive, then there's STUPID aggressive. Back in my baseball days, something that's ridiculous is described as "stupid."

he doesn't seem to be bending his back at all on the follow through. Is that unusual? Could that cause problems?

For fear of making the darn thing so long, I cut out my thoughts on the follow through. But yeah, for someone that throws that hard, there is a somewhat abrupt finish. His torso should be leaning more forward at release and then everything else should come through (as a result of his effort). My thought is that if he implements the change I suggested, then his overall tempo gets slightly quicker, which makes then drive forward harder, which then HAS to get his finish to be more aggressive than it is. The more I think of it, Harden is a freak. How he can generate that velocity THAT quickly---stupid.
   7. the red baron Posted: March 15, 2007 at 02:45 PM (#2312525)
This is really great stuff. I just recently discovered this resource, and I'm absolutely enthralled by the level of knowledge and detail here. Fantastic.

I've never been particularly enamoured of Harden's mechanics, personally. As much as I love his arm, I always thought his follow through looks a little stiff, and it always appears as if he's all arm when he throws. I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be as good of a use of his whole body as you see from most pitchers who throw as hard as he does. I also have to say, I'm delighted to find someone who seems to hate "tall and fall" mechanics as much as I do.

On a more self serving note, I'm a Cardinal fan, and I would like to put in my official request for a profile of Chris Carpenter and/or Anthony Reyes. Reyes, in particular, I find fascinating. He seems similar to Jake Peavey to me, with a little higher arm angle and a slightly better follow through. Thanks a ton for the great read.
   8. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: March 15, 2007 at 02:52 PM (#2312529)
On a more self serving note, I'm a Cardinal fan, and I would like to put in my official request for a profile of Chris Carpenter and/or Anthony Reyes. Reyes, in particular, I find fascinating. He seems similar to Jake Peavey to me, with a little higher arm angle and a slightly better follow through. Thanks a ton for the great read.

Well if you're going to be like that, then as an Orioles fan I'd like to put in an official request for a profile of Daniel Cabrera.
   9. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 15, 2007 at 03:09 PM (#2312538)
As much as I love his arm, I always thought his follow through looks a little stiff, and it always appears as if he's all arm when he throws. I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be as good of a use of his whole body as you see from most pitchers who throw as hard as he does.


Agreed on all points here.

I'm a Cardinal fan, and I would like to put in my official request for a profile of Chris Carpenter and/or Anthony Reyes. Reyes, in particular, I find fascinating. He seems similar to Jake Peavey to me, with a little higher arm angle and a slightly better follow through.

Carpenter I haven't slow-mo'd yet. But I'll say this. He does a thing I wish I could do. He starts somewhat openish with his shoulders and then, as he descends down the hill, he REALLY closes his shoulders well as his lower body starts to rotate the other. That counter-torque piece is awesome. I'd like to see how it looks on slow-mo.

Reyes is a guy I've soured on because he doesn't seem to drive as well as I like pitchers to do with their lower bodies. He is kinda old-school Tom House teachings, and well, with his awesome arm mechanics, there is SO much more there to unlock (in terms of velocity).

Reyes doesn't really remind me of Peavy. Peavy is MUCH more aggressive with his body. Unfortunately, Peavy seems much more aggressive as well with his lead arm, which worries me quite a bit. Again, I need to slow Peavy down to really check him out. I've been saying this for awhile, but Peavy is on my big board in terms of projects. Reyes, not so much. A draft pick in last year's draft, Ian Kennedy from USC, may end up being a better version of Reyes and Prior.


Yearghhhh---
Cabrera might be interesting in terms of a before and after....I'll be watching him close.
   10. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: March 15, 2007 at 07:22 PM (#2312645)
"stupid aggressive"---there's aggressive, very aggressive, uber aggressive, then there's STUPID aggressive. Back in my baseball days, something that's ridiculous is described as "stupid."

If you spell it "stoopid," that helps.
   11. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 16, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2312853)
Slinger---I think from now on, "stoopid" it is.
   12. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: March 16, 2007 at 02:51 AM (#2312858)
stoopid--Rich Harden had 9 strikeouts today. 3 2/3...nice work
   13. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: March 16, 2007 at 04:10 AM (#2312875)
9 of 11 outs were strikeouts?

Holy moly.
   14. Styles P. Deadball Posted: March 16, 2007 at 04:08 PM (#2313002)
The guy was ON. I've now junked a couple months of risk management roto strategy because I have to have the guy.
   15. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: March 16, 2007 at 09:16 PM (#2313181)
Well, I didn't notice any changes in his mechanics. So, you're still looking at 15 starts.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season
for his generous support.

Page rendered in 0.2998 seconds
71 querie(s) executed

Page rendered in 0.2998 seconds
71 querie(s) executed