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— A Scout's View

Friday, July 06, 2007

“Prospect” Report: The BBTF pitching evaluation

Subject: 29 year-old pitcher. Likes to drop down, but is working on re-learning to throw over the top in order to better understand and apply his pitching philosophies.

Consider this clip….

1) Strengths?
2) Weaknesses?
3) What was I working on? Who was I trying to copy? What was I trying to do?
4) What was the velocity on this pitch?
5) what else do you notice?

Next clip….

Same questions…

Next clip…

1)Better/Worse than the previous clip?
2)What was i working on?
3)What are the differences?

And finally, since my changeup kinda sucks, I was thinking that could use this as a changeup…

Let me have it. Do unto me as I do to other pitchers. Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.

ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:56 AM | 25 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:52 AM (#2430719)
Need to go lower with the release point.
   2. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:58 AM (#2430722)
Hey, i just noticed one thing: your right foot is on the LEFT part of the rubber, a lot of pitchers like to start themselves on the 3rd base side of the rubber. Why is that?
   3. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 06, 2007 at 06:09 AM (#2430724)
In the third clip, you end in a far better fielding position than clip No. 2, that's for sure.
And for kicks, can you add the goofy Mark Eichhorn side hop?
   4. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 06, 2007 at 07:03 AM (#2430737)
i dig that changeup. you'd probably be able to use it once in a blue moon and have the batter think "WTF?"
   5. Bunny Vincennes Posted: July 06, 2007 at 07:18 AM (#2430739)
I think the elbow torque in the first clip looks problematic. I think the arm motion in the second looks much smoother.
   6. Bunny Vincennes Posted: July 06, 2007 at 07:19 AM (#2430740)
The pace of the delivery in 2 is also much faster to the plate. Much less time spent over the rubber.
   7. Barnaby Jones Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:20 PM (#2430863)
Talking completely out of my ass, first clip is trying to imitate Billy Wagner?
   8. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:35 PM (#2430882)
I dunno - looks like a righty version of the Unit, if that makes any sense. OF course, I'm no authority.
   9. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:42 PM (#2430892)
I think it looks like you're imitating Steve Palazzolo, but that is probably just because I'm not used to seeing guys wearing shorts in a cage pitch.

I actually do think the mechanics look very familiar, and when somebody gets it I'll think it was obvious, but I just can't pull up the name right now.
   10. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:43 PM (#2430897)
I think the elbow torque in the first clip looks problematic.

I don't know if Jack and I are thinking the same thing but it looked to me like you were coming late with the elbow & "opening up."
   11. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:45 PM (#2430899)
I'll guess Roy Oswalt
   12. JC in DC Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:59 PM (#2430919)
Whatever's the case, the pitch in clip #2 looks more difficult to hit than the one in clip #3 (of the 4 clips).
   13. WillYoung Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:00 PM (#2430924)
I'll second Pops and say Roy Oswalt.
   14. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:33 PM (#2430974)
In clip #2, it looks like there's a good wind-up with the right arm, but then forward progress with the ball seems to stop briefly as the elbow sort of rotates around the ball. I would imagine that's could be some wasted movement, holding back the velocity of the pitch, and might let hitters get a better look at it. I don't know if I see the same thing in #3, since it's going much faster.

I'm not sure I can answer any of your questions, but that's what I see.
   15. villageidiom Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:27 PM (#2431134)
Simply based on the way your head moves in the first one, I'd say Okajima. Your head is all over the place at delivery, though I think your arm goes off to the side a lot more than Oki's does. In your other deliveries your head is clearly still focused on the strike zone.
   16. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: July 06, 2007 at 07:45 PM (#2431284)
your right foot is on the LEFT part of the rubber, a lot of pitchers like to start themselves on the 3rd base side of the rubber. Why is that?

Different angle of approach. I have a problem opening up too soon. If I start on the 3rd base side, I have a tendency of opening up even sooner.

I don't know if Jack and I are thinking the same thing but it looked to me like you were coming late with the elbow & "opening up."
Yup. My biggest problem is "opening up." I think it's part my body's doing, but I can't seem to be able to keep my front shoulder in a getting my forearm to "lay back" like most hard throwers. I can "lay back" the arm when I throw normally, but when I pitch I tend to drag my elbow along from both up top and sidearm.

BTW, overhand pitch was at 88mph (clip 1). Clip 2 was 83mph. I'd guess that pitch 3 was 81-82mph.

I'll guess Roy Oswalt
Trying to mimick Lincecum (although I didn't even get close, except for maybe the stepover) from up top. I was thinking "lead with my butt" and drift through the balance point while keeping my shoulder over the rubber. This is something that I think Palazzolo will benefit from. I was testing it out to see if it worked on me and it did, even though I can obviously do it better. I will say this. By drifting through the balance point, my tempo (from top of knee lift to release) got faster than I've ever had it, an Oswalt-esque 20 frames (Oswalt and Unit are 18 framers).
In clip #2, it looks like there's a good wind-up with the right arm, but then forward progress with the ball seems to stop briefly as the elbow sort of rotates around the ball.
That's a bingo. On that clip, I was trying to work on keeping the arm back while the body rotates (separation and sequencing) and also working on eliminating that friggin hitch by "layin' it back." Again, I think the fact that I don't get my forearm parallel to the ground has to do with my early front shoulder rotation which has to do with my hips opening up too soon....Tried everything, still can't get it unless I do it at around 80% effort.

The pace of the delivery in 2 is also much faster to the plate. Much less time spent over the rubber.
It looks this way, but clip #1 is a better use of the body by a wide margin. Clip #2 and my sidearm throws I tend to lead with my front shoulder which makes it dificcult for me to firm up my front leg and stop forward mometum to make it rotational. Another inefficiency that costs me a whole bunch of velocity.

More later....and excellent points fellas...
   17. A Never-Was Pitcher Posted: July 08, 2007 at 10:15 AM (#2433455)
Hey Carlos, it's Kyle - finally got around to registering. Your stride leg is bent outwards when you land, straightening as you release the pitch. Interesting.
   18. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 08, 2007 at 10:26 AM (#2433456)
Btw, Carlos, yuo're not hiding the ball: Any decent hitter with good eyesight can probably pick up timing well.
   19. XV84 Posted: July 09, 2007 at 02:13 AM (#2434272)
Both throws, you're not "scap loading" the throwing shoulder and not bringing the ball far enough behind you. You're also bringing you're throwing arm back too late. It's going forward while you're going forward. You're throwing around/across your body too much.
   20. ThrowinChed Posted: December 21, 2007 at 04:47 AM (#2651348)
Three things I would fix in clip 1: 1. Your Front Leg- You talk about drifting through the balance point ala Tim Lincecum. One thing that Lincecum and others, namely Mariano and K-Rod, do that I don't see in this video, granted there isn't a side view, is that while their butt is drifting to the plate, their front foot stays over the rubber and lags behind for a split second. This will definitely help you stay closed, which you admit is one of your problems. as well as store power in your hips.
2. Your front foot- You land closed. Though only a few inches closed, it threw off the rotationaly plane of your hips and shoulders. Notice your head got outside your front knee/foot. Some players high arm slots do this to get out of the way of their arms, but your slot isn't that high. Your front leg also kind of bows out. It isn't as firm or anchored as it could be which is costing you mph's. This is all caused by landing a couple inches closed. If your front foot landed perpendicular to your back foot it would clean your delivery up a lot and make your release point more consistent.
3. Your arm- Your arm action isn't bad by any stretch. I think its a matter of timing it better. Your arm is almost coming forward before your front foot lands which is contributing to your opening up. Looking at almost any power pitcher, they don't start "throwing the ball" until their front foot lands. This allows them to stay closed that split second longer than an amatuer and it also forces their arm to be quicker.

All in all your delivery isn't bad, esp. for converting from dropping down to overhand. Your finish is great! I think if you cleaned it up a bit you would definitely get it up over 90. Love the blogs man keep 'em coming!
   21. Russ Posted: December 21, 2007 at 04:54 AM (#2651350)
Who's gonna tell him?
   22. Dan Szymborski Posted: December 21, 2007 at 05:31 AM (#2651370)
Sorry Ched, CBW's in the Diamondbacks' front office now. Our loss is hopefully Arizona's gain!
   23. Zach Posted: December 21, 2007 at 06:49 AM (#2651404)
Your weight seems to be shifted too far tot he third base side, as though you're slightly bent over. That means that your moment of inertia about a vertical axis is much larger than if you were more upright. If you had a more upright stance, you could get more angular velocity (and thus linear velocity) on the ball with the same overall torque exerted by your legs. That would seem to be particularly important for a sidearm or high submarine angle.
   24. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: December 21, 2007 at 07:09 AM (#2651405)
Trying to mimick Lincecum (although I didn't even get close, except for maybe the stepover) from up top.

I have no expertise whatsoever, but in #1, the pitcher that came to my mind was Kerry Wood.
   25. The Pitching Academy Posted: March 30, 2010 at 05:38 AM (#3488499)
Don't try throwing over the top. It is a pitching myth that has been going around for years. Most pitchers throw with a three-quarter arm slot that is natural to them. If you are natural three-quarter and try to throw over the top you will hurt your throwing arm.

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