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Bullpen Mechanics
— A Scout's View

Tuesday, September 04, 2007

THT: Buchholz vs. Kennedy

No-hit wonder Clay Buchholz or Ian Kennedy? Whom would you rather have? Let’s use video and try to answer this question…

Here’s the link to the article at THT

“Different ways to attack hitters. Similar success so far in their careers.

 

ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: September 04, 2007 at 05:55 AM | 21 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. chris p Posted: September 04, 2007 at 01:06 PM (#2510948)
pretty good changeup, yeah?
   2. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: September 04, 2007 at 02:25 PM (#2511009)
ya think? LOL. I remember being uberimpressed when he threw a 0-0 changeup to Vlad on his Major League debut. He had me there...
   3. chris p Posted: September 04, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2511021)
his fastball command is still shaky at times. the other day, he missed off the plate more than he did of over the middle, so he gave up some walks instead of line drives. but, man ... the curve and changeup are dominant pitches.

as far as the article is concerned, i'd say there's not much to compare--completely different pitchers.
   4. The Original SJ Posted: September 04, 2007 at 02:39 PM (#2511022)
as far as the article is concerned, i'd say there's not much to compare--completely different pitchers.

I agree, if they were on the Rangers and Phillies, no one would compare them.
   5. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: September 04, 2007 at 02:52 PM (#2511034)
I agree... they are different in many ways. Mechanics, arm slot, stuff, you name it. Also, you are right about Buchholz's command so far. It is shaky and I think Kennedy has him beat in that department. Buchholz will be able to get away with it more because hitters realize that he'll throw just about anything on any count.

Originally, it was going to a Buchholz/Hughes piece, but I didn't want to keep piling on to Hughes troubles so when I heard Kennedy was due to make his debut, I jumped at comparing those two.
   6. chris p Posted: September 04, 2007 at 03:21 PM (#2511069)
i woulda gone with the pedro/buchholz angle! both fastball/curve/change guys and buchholz was taken with a compensation pick from losing pedro. i mentioned in the chatter that they were both fastball/curve/change, but when i started to think about it, the different arm angles meant different types of fastballs and curves--more lateral movement on the fastball and a tighter curve for pedro, while buchholz throws that big over the top 12-6er . also, the circle change for pedro and the straight change for buchholz. i thought it was interesting how two pitchers that throw the same 3 "pitches" weren't the same 3 pitches at all.

also, the guys at soxprospects.com have been pushing cole hamels as a comp for buchholz, but i havn't seen much of hamels.
   7. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: September 04, 2007 at 03:38 PM (#2511090)
YA know, Hamels/ Buchholz would've been a pretty good comp, I must say...
   8. James Darnell's #1 Fan Posted: September 04, 2007 at 11:23 PM (#2511702)
Good piece, very interesting.
Since I'm a Padres fan, don't really see much of the AL games; it's nice to see some of the new/young pitchers/players in the AL from time to time.

Great work, Carlos.

Freaking nasty change from Clay.

Carlos, por cierto. Yo solo tiro el cicle change; sabes como se tira el straight change? como es el grip?
   9. XV84 Posted: September 06, 2007 at 02:32 AM (#2513641)
Funny you mention Okajima. He and Buchholz have similar mechanics.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/clayoka1.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/clayoka2.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/clayoka3.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/clayoka4.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/clayoka5.jpg
   10. James Darnell's #1 Fan Posted: September 06, 2007 at 04:29 PM (#2514062)
Funny, I've never seen a pitcher turn his head away while throwing...
   11. joker24 Posted: September 06, 2007 at 08:35 PM (#2514334)
I'll just copy and paste this and let it stand on it's own:

"Eiland also wants [Phil] Hughes to slow down his delivery and attack the strike zone earlier in the count."

From the ESPN fantasy news deal.
   12. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: September 06, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2514340)
This has been said in a number of places, but I was also thinking it upon seeing the following picture this morning:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_minor_adjustment_boosts_yankees_phenom_p-3.html

Hughes seems to be short-striding or whatever you would call not doing a full stride in the post-hamstring pop world. I hope this doesn't lead to injury.
   13. 1k5v3L Posted: September 06, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2514343)
Keith Law has a piece on Hughes on ESPN Insider this morning, and Keith didn't like one bit of what he saw from Hughes last night. In his chat this afternoon, Keith didn't think Hughes looked like a dominant front of the rotation workhorse, but more of a #3 guy...
   14. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: September 06, 2007 at 08:59 PM (#2514365)
Keith Law has a piece on Hughes on ESPN Insider this morning, and Keith didn't like one bit of what he saw from Hughes last night. In his chat this afternoon, Keith didn't think Hughes looked like a dominant front of the rotation workhorse, but more of a #3 guy...

If nothing else, Keith is consistent. Even last year he stuck by picking Pelfrey over Hughes and labeling Hughes as a #2.
   15. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: September 06, 2007 at 09:17 PM (#2514389)
Carlos, por cierto. Yo solo tiro el cicle change; sabes como se tira el straight change? como es el grip?

I'd stick with the circle change if I were you.

"Eiland also wants [Phil] Hughes to slow down his delivery and attack the strike zone earlier in the count."

You know how I feel on that subject. As a matter of opinion, I thought that the day that his mechanics most resembled last year's mechanics was in his start against the Angels. I thought it was a good start (mechanically anyway) and I would hope that they would've stuck with that longer.

Regardless of his success yesterday, can you honestly tell me that his stuff yesterday wasn't very much like Ian Kennedy's stuff the other day? Seriously, if Hughes' stuff is "electric", then MY stuff yesterday (I was sitting 86-87 with one 89, and one 90) of course I was just throwing into a net, but.... what, am I suddenly a 4/5 starter in the bigs right now?

Regardless of what you think about Keith Law, that dude has been saying all along that Hughes ain't ALL that. I happen to agree with him, and I have agreed with him ever since I saw his mechanics and 1st MLB start. I'm generally pretty tough on the overall scouting community, but KLaw is the one guy that has impressed me the most with his scouting acumen. Sure, we disagree from time to time, but the dude knows what he's talking about.
   16. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: September 06, 2007 at 10:02 PM (#2514421)
You know how I feel on that subject. As a matter of opinion, I thought that the day that his mechanics most resembled last year's mechanics was in his start against the Angels. I thought it was a good start (mechanically anyway) and I would hope that they would've stuck with that longer.

That also happens to be the start where he had the best velocity he's had this year.
   17. XV84 Posted: January 13, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2667431)
Buchholz and Okajima comparison: http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/pitching clips/okajimabuchholzslow.gif
   18. Sloislonelyfortheorange Posted: February 02, 2008 at 07:34 AM (#2682165)
have you ever taken a look at Tyler Clippard? Clippard Clip.

The kid is crazy fun to watch. I don't have your eye but he seems to get great momentum then stops it but whips his arm around. He has one of the absolute best scap pinches that i've ever seen though.

WOW!
   19. XV84 Posted: February 04, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#2683622)
Clippard does not stop his momentum. His momentum itself has stopped because he is trying to push with his post leg. He is also trying to stay too tall. He is fighting gravity. He needs to fall with gravity and maintain a consistent bend in his post leg once he "kicks "the stride leg toward the plate. Compare him to Matt Cain and you'll see Cain does a better job at not "jumping" toward the plate and still has an aggressive opening of his stride leg as well as similar amount of scap loading.

For some reason Clippard falls off to the third base side when he throws a changeup, and to the first base side on his fastball and curve.
   20. Jim Furtado Posted: April 08, 2011 at 01:13 PM (#3790082)
This is a test.
   21. Jim Furtado Posted: April 08, 2011 at 01:13 PM (#3790083)
This is another test.

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