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— A Scout's View

Monday, May 21, 2007

THT- Carlos Zambrano’s Arm Slot-Cause for Concern?

Is Big Z hiding an injury? Let’s see what the video tells us.

Here’s the Link to the article at The Hardball Times.

ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: May 21, 2007 at 01:22 PM | 18 comment(s)
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   1. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: May 21, 2007 at 01:32 PM (#2372649)
I originally intended to do a Papelbon/Zambrano double feature here at BBTF, but I thought it would be wise t split them up even though they are showing the same kind of issues (although Zambrano is more evident).

Any comments/questions are greatly appreciated.

Carlos, aka CBW
   2. Willie Mayspedes Posted: May 21, 2007 at 11:50 PM (#2373325)
That's a bummer man...
   3. Banta Posted: May 22, 2007 at 12:31 AM (#2373442)
I think I willed this article into existence last week, when I thought it already existed.
   4. Andere Richtingen Posted: May 22, 2007 at 12:45 AM (#2373470)
Great article, Carlos.

It's worth noting that Zambrano definitely did some tinkering with his mechanics prior to his start in New York last week. I can't articulate what was different, but you might want to look at that start or the last one against the White Sox to see how he looks different from earlier in the season. Certainly, those two starts produced very different results.

I'm wondering if he's hurt, and this change is too little too late. He definitely looked off against the Sox. I definitely agree with your concerns about him being enamored with the radar gun, and have voiced concerns about that for years.
   5. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: May 22, 2007 at 01:27 AM (#2373612)
Banta---you know that you guys influence whom I take on next right? Well, most of the time anyways. I still haven't done the Peavy one though. Beckett is next by the way......

Andere--I did look at his start vs NY. I mentioned it in the article. i saw about 3 innings of the game last night and he looked awful, AWFUL.... Thank you for your comments. Keep 'em coming.
   6. Sean McNally Posted: May 22, 2007 at 03:29 AM (#2373836)
Carlos - as always excellent work...

One question, Joe Morgan kept harping on this last night, by Clippard's motion - specifically the falling off to both the third and first base side - is that a) excessively weird and b) a problem long term?

Thanks.
   7. Mattbert Posted: May 22, 2007 at 04:32 AM (#2373870)
I only was able to watch the first 3 innings or so, but it seemed to me like Clippard was falling off to the third base side when he threw his changeup. It also seemed like he was pushing the changeup through his delivery and (a) dropping his elbow or (b) slowing down his arm or both. Tough to say since it was all at live speed. It could've been he was just being "soft" with his pushoff/post leg on the change (many pitchers are taught to do this to help scrub off velocity while maintaining arm speed) and that's why his lower body wasn't rotating through to the first base side like on his other pitches.

Found some video of him warming up in the pen prior to a Trenton start:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866669116398439848

Google video isn't the best for comparing freeze frames, but it looks like he shortens his stride, drops his elbow, and slows down his arm somewhat when he's throwing the changeups compared to the first two tosses (curveballs).
   8. Andere Richtingen Posted: May 22, 2007 at 12:42 PM (#2373958)
Andere--I did look at his start vs NY. I mentioned it in the article. i saw about 3 innings of the game last night and he looked awful, AWFUL.... Thank you for your comments. Keep 'em coming.

Ah, looks like I stopped reading before the postscript.

So why the hell is Zambrano still pitching? If he's hurt, he should be on the DL.
   9. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: May 22, 2007 at 04:45 PM (#2374139)
One question, Joe Morgan kept harping on this last night, by Clippard's motion - specifically the falling off to both the third and first base side - is that a) excessively weird and b) a problem long term?


The answer is...it depends. IMO, there is a right way and a wrong way to "fall off" the mound. Put simply and generally, if a pitcher applies force through the ball forward and THEN his momentum makes him fall to his glove side, it's OK. If he starts to fly open and goes "around the ball" and falls off, then it's not good. I'd have to take a look at Clippard more closely to answer that question. Ideally, you'd like every pitcher to fall forward mostly. I don't really concentrate on that TOO much unless it is detrimental in a huge way. Maybe I should though.....
   10. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 23, 2007 at 02:00 AM (#2375293)
So why the hell is Zambrano still pitching? If he's hurt, he should be on the DL.


We all know the Cubs don't address injury issues until they've been compounded in seriousness due to burying heads in the dirt and ignoring reality.
   11. joker24 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 07:52 PM (#2376161)
I'll toss out Lidge again as a possibility, his fall from grace his been well chronicled but not why...aside from possible Pujolsitis.

As a Cardinals fan, I am so worried about Zambrano I don't even know what to do with myself.
I'm not sure Dusty ever got the backlash he should've for Zambrano's pitch counts. Dude was throwing 112 pitches a game as a 22 year old. At some point, that's going to catch up to you. Took a little longer than Prior, but that along with the subsequent misuse, might account for something here.
   12. North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan Posted: May 28, 2007 at 08:03 PM (#2381432)
CBW gets a mention in Gleeman's "Daily Dose" column on Rotoworld today. I'm not sure that GMs spend a lot of time on Rotoworld, but the audience is growing...
   13. 1k5v3L Posted: June 01, 2007 at 07:57 PM (#2387472)
Zambrano looks like #### against the Braves today. Methinks he's done. He should've taken the Cubs cash in the offseason, when he had the chance. Now he'll be lucky to get the Jeff Weaver special...
   14. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: June 02, 2007 at 06:21 PM (#2389087)
Dammit, there´s no baseball coverage in Spain.......

I miss a couple of days and Z blows up? Not only does he give up a ton of runs and hits and then the Barrett thing?

Mark Reynolds Fan--was his velocity off again that day? Arm slot? I saw that he had no K´s...
   15. walt williams bobblehead Posted: June 02, 2007 at 06:26 PM (#2389092)
His arm slot looked very bad on the punches he attempted in the dugout.
   16. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 02, 2007 at 06:40 PM (#2389116)
His fastball was putting up 88-92 on the Wrigley gun. It's hard to tell from mlb.tv but it looked he continued to use the lower arm slot.
   17. XV84 Posted: June 04, 2007 at 06:59 AM (#2391904)
I saw his previous start vs. the Dodgers and it seemed like he was using mostly his upper body to throw. Hips looked to be opening soon as well as shoulders, didn't look like he was getting as much hip/shoulder separation.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the lower arm slot has an earlier release point as well (farther from home plate). I know it's hard to tell from the camera angle. But that's just what I see in addition to the lower slot.
   18. Mattbert Posted: June 05, 2007 at 04:26 AM (#2392992)
How many more turds does Felix Hernandez have to turn in before he gets a thread in here? I want to know how Carlos does his side-by-side clips.

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