Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


Contributors

Jim Furtado
Founder & Publisher
Repoz
Editor - Baseball Primer

Syndicate

Craig Kimbrel Newsbeat

Tuesday, April 07, 2015

Bill James Mailbag - 4/7/15

Hey, Bill! Long-time Braves fan here (through some good years, and some VERY bad ones) and it really hurts to see the Braves trade away Craig Kimbrel. I know they claim to be “rebuilding,” but Kimbrel has been one of the best relievers in the game over the last couple of years, and he’s only 26. Wouldn’t you consider…that position, at least…to be already “built?”

It’s Upton. The signing of BJ Upton was utterly inexplicable, for reasons I should probably be polite enough not to outline, but once he was signed, his contract became a huge millstone that was going to drag the organization down for a long time. They almost had to get Upton’s money off the books before they could START re-building, and how are you going to do that? You’ve got to give the other team something they DESPERATELY want—Kimbrel—in order to get them to accept something that they don’t want to have anything to do with—Upton’s contract. I think it was a smart move on Atlanta’s part to do that, but it is terribly sad what has happened to the organization. Just two or three years ago, with Heyward and Freeman, Martin Prado and Brian McCann and Andleton Simmons, it looked like they really had something going. It got away from them with stunning quickness. It always hurts the fans to give up players that they have grown fond of.

Taking a game from yesterday, let’s say we gave Johnny Cueto, who got 21 outs in a Reds win without getting the decision, .77 of a win (Jumbo Diaz got the win by getting one out at the right time). Do you think that over the course of a full career, or even a full season, that a starting pitcher’s win total would be significantly different if wins were calculated in this way? They would certainly get credit for any game the team won, but they would lose some points for every non-complete game. Seems to me it might actually balance out in the end….thoughts?

I’m surprised that we don’t KNOW yet. Here’s what I think: 1) We should definitely fix the rules so that wins and losses are scored as rationally as they can be, regardless of whether it makes a difference or not, 2) I’ve been talking about starting a campaign to try to get this done for years, but it’s one of those things. . .you have to focus on it or you’re just wasting your time, and also, everybody who gets involved in the effort wants to fix the rules a different way, so you have to work out some consensus among yourselves before you can even begin the process, and that takes a year of organizational meetings before you can really start, 3) I don’t understand why we don’t KNOW what difference it would make, since it wouldn’t be a huge project to re-score wins and losses from 1950 forward, so that we wouldn’t be operating in the dark as to what difference it would make, and 4) SPECULATING about what difference it would make, when the answer is knowable but unknown, would be lazy and counter-productive, since we should never speculate about that which we COULD easily know.

Re: the BJ Upton signing being “utterly inexplicable.” I’ve been trying to understand the signing for a long time now, and I always arrive at “bad idea” or “poorly considered”—which is a step short of “utterly inexplicable.”...

Well, not to be accusatory, but BJ Upton just does not hustle. This is very rare at a major league level; there are really only two major league players non who just don’t hustle, plus there are some older guys who conserve a lot of energy but have paid their dues and can get by with it. But it is politically incorrect to SAY that a player wont hustle, even if he won’t, so this kind of escapes the record—not the stat record, but the conversational record. People don’t talk about it; it’s considered impolite. So when the Braves signed this contract, I thought, “Jesus Christ, did they miss the memo on this guy? Did they not scout him? Or have they so completely bought into this notion that it is improper to charge a major league player with laziness that they actually don’t SEE what anybody else can see?” Which happens all the time outside of sports; people don’t see things that they ought to see, because they don’t want to believe in them. It doesn’t usually happen IN sports, because if you do that in sports you will lose. So I don’t know. . .either they didn’t do their homework, or they talked themselves into believing that it’s just a bad rap; there is no such thing as a major league player who doesn’t want to play. To me, it is inexplicable.


Monday, April 06, 2015

Padres Keep Building and Borrowing, Add Craig Kimbrel | FanGraphs Baseball

Jeff Sullivan breaks down the deal.

The Braves are shedding just over $80 million in guaranteed future salary. The Padres, meanwhile, are shedding about $24 million in guaranteed future salary, meaning, in the end, the Braves save about $56 million, and the Padres add that much. Kimbrel has both potential performance-based bonuses and a club option, but we’ll stick with the guarantee for now. Here’s the simplification of this deal: the Padres are trading one of their top prospects, and a couple other minor things, for Craig Kimbrel on a three-year contract worth about $56 million. That doesn’t capture everything, but it gets to the heart of this.

Jim Furtado Posted: April 06, 2015 at 08:40 AM | 0 comment(s)
  Beats: braves, carlos quentin, craig kimbrel, melvin upton, jr., trades

Sunday, April 05, 2015

Padres Acquire Craig Kimbrel, Melvin Upton Jr.

Only makes sense to trade Kimbrel (never mind dump B.J.) if you’re rebuilding… but I thought they’d, y’know, get something…

The Braves will acquire [Cameron] Maybin and [Carlos] Quentin, [Ken] Rosenthal tweets. The Braves will also acquire pitcher Matt Wisler, as FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi tweets. [Fangraphs’ Kiley] McDaniel tweets that the Braves will also receive outfield prospect Jordan Paroubeck. Rosenthal tweets that the Braves will also receive the 41st pick in this June’s draft.


Saturday, January 17, 2015

Hart says he will not trade Kimbrel « Bowman’s Blog

Kimbrel was a topic of conversation for some of the MLB Radio shows yesterday. In the morning Steve Phillips insisted he had to go. In the afternoon a host insisted he shouldn’t go anywhere. IMHO, it depends on their timeline. If they truly believe they can be competitive when the new park opens, they should hold onto him. If their timeline is longer than it makes sense to send him away for more prospects. John Hart has stated that he believes the Braves can be competitive for a playoff spot in 2016. I agree with him.

“We love our core group,” Hart said. “We have added quality players around this group to allow us to compete while strengthening the farm system.  We’ve added (Nick) Markakis, (Jason) Grilli,  (Jim) Johnson, A.J. (Pierzynski) and others to help us compete this year.  We have never entertained trading (Kimbrel) and have had zero conversations with any clubs about Craig. I want him finishing out a World Series win.”

Jim Furtado Posted: January 17, 2015 at 06:48 AM | 31 comment(s)
  Beats: braves, craig kimbrel

Wednesday, December 03, 2014

If the Braves are indeed rebuilding, Kimbrel should go | Mark Bradley blog

If you’re truly rebuilding, you’re not planning on winning many games. If you’re not going to win many games, you don’t need the best closer in the business. As great as he is, Kimbrel would be a luxury a fourth-place team cannot afford.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 03, 2014 at 09:13 AM | 20 comment(s)
  Beats: braves, craig kimbrel

 

 

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
phredbird
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogJavier Baez heating up but is there a place for him?
(4 - 1:44am, May 26)
Last: Moses Taylor world tour 2015: Singapore

NewsblogIs switch-hitting a lost art? - Sports - The Boston Globe
(55 - 1:43am, May 26)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - May 2015
(2382 - 1:41am, May 26)
Last: sardonic

NewsblogOT: 2015 NHL Playoff thread
(537 - 12:47am, May 26)
Last: Obo

NewsblogAngels again are stung by Mike Napoli in loss to Red Sox - LA Times
(18 - 12:45am, May 26)
Last: BillWallace

NewsblogOTP - May 2015: Jeb Bush would like to watch baseball with Teddy Roosevelt and Pitbull
(3886 - 12:25am, May 26)
Last: zenbitz

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 5-25-15
(13 - 12:21am, May 26)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogCollege Seniors Find Little Leverage - BaseballAmerica.com
(8 - 11:50pm, May 25)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogAT&T Ad Showing First Woman In Major League Baseball Draws Strong Reactions
(258 - 10:27pm, May 25)
Last: TerpNats

NewsblogBernie Williams Day reminds us Yankees' glory days are over - Newsday
(7 - 9:55pm, May 25)
Last: Biff, highly-regarded young guy

NewsblogOT: Soccer March 2015
(1086 - 9:07pm, May 25)
Last: JuanGone..except1game

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 5-24-2015
(144 - 9:03pm, May 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogAll-Star Game shouldn't stop slumping Reds from firing Price | FOX Sports
(19 - 8:36pm, May 25)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogBrian Matusz of Baltimore Orioles ejected for foreign substance
(20 - 7:29pm, May 25)
Last: ReggieThomasLives

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1680 - 3:58pm, May 25)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

Page rendered in 1.1598 seconds
67 querie(s) executed