Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, July 05, 2018

2-time World Series champion Shane Victorino officially announces retirement from MLB

“I think it’s time to hang it up and call it a career. I’ve been blessed with that opportunity as a baseball player, as a little boy growing up in Maui, getting an opportunity to represent my state, represent my people, so it’s about that time,” he said. “It’s time for me to say, it’s time for me to move on, time for me to enjoy retirement. Officially, Aug. 3 will be the date. I’ll go back to Philly and probably sign a one-day deal, and hang it up and call it a career.”

His announcement puts a close to the most prolific and decorated career in Hawaii baseball history.

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:32 AM | 71 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general, hawaii, retirements, shane victorino

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5705453)
“It’s time for me to say, it’s time for me to move on, time for me to enjoy retirement


People six years younger than me should not be allowed to say this.
   2. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5705455)
Even if they've made $65,645,000 by then?
   3. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5705461)
I always liked this thread from when the Red Sox signed Victorino in the offseason between a last place season and a championship season.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5705462)
I don't understand the fetish of "one-day contracts" and "retire as a xxxxx" for the player.

if it means something to them, go for it. why anyone else would give a ####, I can't explain.

the last team Victorino played for was the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.

granting that is a ridiculous name by a weasel owner, but Shane will always be stuck with that.
   5. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5705463)
Even if they've made $65,645,000 by then?


Especially if...
   6. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5705467)
if it means something to them, go for it. why anyone else would give a ####, I can't explain.


Hey, leave the cynicism to me...

Victorino spent 8 pretty darn good years in Philly - covering their most successful period in a good 40 years and just their second title. I imagine there are fans who would appreciate one last tip of the cap... or one last huck of a battery, since we're talking Philadelphia.
   7. Rally Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5705468)
I thought he retired (or was involuntarily retired like most players) 3 years ago.

(checks BBREF)

Last MLB game was in 2015, but he played 9 games for the Iowa Cubs in 2016. Too bad he couldn't crack the big league roster, could have had another ring.

I think the general consensus was Shane was on the downside of his career when he signed with the Red Sox. His 2013 season was, by WAR, the best of his career. And as soon as that year was over he was effectively finished, not much playing time due to injuries and not very effective when he was on the field. Talk about falling off a cliff.
   8. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5705470)
I completely forgot he was on the 2013 Boston Red Sox team. When it said "2-time WS champion", I was very confused.
   9. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5705472)
His announcement puts a close to the most prolific and decorated career in Hawaii baseball history.

What about Sid Fernandez? About even in WAR. 2 All star games each.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5705475)
I think the general consensus was Shane was on the downside of his career when he signed with the Red Sox. His 2013 season was, by WAR, the best of his career. And as soon as that year was over he was effectively finished, not much playing time due to injuries and not very effective when he was on the field. Talk about falling off a cliff.


The fascinating thing about his 2013 was related to how he gave up switch hitting midway through the year. He had two HBPs midway through July 11th, then got hit 16 times the rest of the season to lead the AL. The surge was largely due to the combination of standing right on top of the plate and his lack of familiarity with seeing pitches coming at him from the same side.

And if you haven't played big league ball since 2015, and any ball since 2016, you don't need to announce your retirement.

   11. Rally Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5705480)
Did Rickey Henderson ever announce his retirement? I assume Julio Franco is still playing in an independent league somewhere.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5705481)
In other news, Hillary Clinton announced her retirement from politics.
   13. DavidFoss Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5705482)
His announcement puts a close to the most prolific and decorated career in Hawaii baseball history.

Charlie Hough is listed as officially born in Honolulu, but we went to HS in Florida. Looks like the was born at the Tripler Army Medical Center so my guess is that he was born while is father was in the service.
   14. Rusty Priske Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5705490)
While I don't care that Victorino retired as a Phillie, I DID care that Roy Halladay retired as a Blue Jay, so I just assume it means something to the fans of the team they person is retiring with.
   15. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5705495)
I always liked this thread from when the Red Sox signed Victorino in the offseason between a last place season and a championship season.


That thread is gold. The amount of wrong statements (including many by me) is off the charts but oh how this made me laugh...

By Spring Training 2014, you've got a pretty good shot at Bradley and Bogaerts being ready. You put one in CF, the other at SS. If Iglesias looks good this year, you deal with SS next off-season. We're not winning the World Series in 2013, anyway, so let's make sure we're not screwing our chances of winning the World Series in 2015, either...


God that World Series title couldn't have been more perfect. Honestly a lot of the moves that off-season turned out about the way the worst-case scenarios for 2014-2015 would have had them but they were offset by them all being absolute best-case scenarios in 2013. Victorino was awesome that year, fun to root for ("every little thing gonna be alright") and just brilliant on the field. The grand slam against Detroit and the double against St. Louis plus as SoSH notes the weird HBP thing.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5705499)
While I don't care that Victorino retired as a Phillie, I DID care that Roy Halladay retired as a Blue Jay, so I just assume it means something to the fans of the team they person is retiring with.

But Halladay didn't retire as a Blue Jay. His last game was as a Phillie. This one-day contract stuff is just a fiction.

If the teams really want the guy to "retire as a X", put him on the field for one PA/BF.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5705507)
Here's my question from that thread:

My question is what the Red Sox think they're doing: are Napoli/Victorino part of an honest plan to win as many games as possible, or are they just there to edge the team a bit closer to respectability for a little while?


I'm still not sure what the answer is.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5705508)
I'm still not sure what the answer is.
If winning 97 games plus 11 more in the playoffs doesn't provide an answer, the question is pretty much irrelevant in the first place.
   19. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5705512)
This one-day contract stuff is just a fiction.


Lots of stuff is "fiction" that the rest of society plays along with because we don't care if other people like that "fiction".
If other people don't like that "fiction", that's for them to work out on their own (as long as the "fiction" doesn't impact other people's lives in a negative way).

1-day contracts, sports team halls of fame, religions...if it doesn't negatively affect you, why should you care?


   20. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5705519)
If winning 97 games plus 11 more in the playoffs doesn't provide an answer, the question is pretty much irrelevant in the first place.


Yeah but how much was luck? I'm not convinced that they didn't primarily think "Victorino might be a nice holding piece during the next few transitional years."
   21. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5705521)
His announcement puts a close to the most prolific and decorated career in Hawaii baseball history.


Wally Yonamine is not amused.

Also, take a look at the offensive environment that Yonamine was playing in.
   22. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5705525)
Also Tadashi Wakabayashi. Let's see Victorino put up a 1.99 career ERA. (Lower offensive environment noted; even so, 1.99 for your career is pretty good.)
   23. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5705527)
1-day contracts, sports team halls of fame, religions...if it doesn't negatively affect you, why should you care?


My favorite one is money. When you think about it, money is just a little story we tell ourselves.
   24. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5705530)
Basically every thing about civilization is a story we tell ourselves and collectively choose to believe.

Countries, religions, sports, one-day contracts. It is all a big pile of bullshit we believe.

Which is why it is hilarious when someone argues for something like the gold standard, because they believe their shared delusion that a shiny rock is more accurate than the other shared delusion that paper money means something.
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 05, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5705533)
Lots of stuff is "fiction" that the rest of society plays along with because we don't care if other people like that "fiction".
If other people don't like that "fiction", that's for them to work out on their own (as long as the "fiction" doesn't impact other people's lives in a negative way).

1-day contracts, sports team halls of fame, religions...if it doesn't negatively affect you, why should you care?
The answer to your question is in your first sentence - a lot of the big fictions (i.e. not 1-day contracts) have major effects on the society we all live in (even the glibertarians who deny the concept of society), and thus they affect our lives.
   26. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5705539)
Yeah but how much was luck? I'm not convinced that they didn't primarily think "Victorino might be a nice holding piece during the next few transitional years."
Personally, if the actions of the team when trying to win are almost indistinguishable from the actions of the team when they are just trying for respectability, I don't really care what is deep in the heart of the owners.
   27. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5705543)
#26 - No, it ultimately doesn't matter, but I think it's worth thinking about. Probably a more worthwhile topic than 1-day contracts, and a less worthwhile topic than "countries, religions."
   28. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 05, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5705546)
I don't understand the fetish of "one-day contracts" and "retire as a xxxxx" for the player. if it means something to them, go for it. why anyone else would give a ####, I can't explain.

It's a retirement party - or one variant of the MLB version. Might not mean much to those affiliated with other organizations in the industry, but those close to the honoree deem it appropriate.
   29. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 05, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5705550)
My favorite one is money. When you think about it, money is just a little story we tell ourselves.


Tell me more.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5705556)
Lots of stuff is "fiction" that the rest of society plays along with because we don't care if other people like that "fiction".
If other people don't like that "fiction", that's for them to work out on their own (as long as the "fiction" doesn't impact other people's lives in a negative way).

1-day contracts, sports team halls of fame, religions...if it doesn't negatively affect you, why should you care?


Well, ultimately I don't care. I just can't fathom why I would feel better or worse depending on whether my favorite player signed a contract with no actual value. I would think having a "Shane Victorino Day" at Citizens Bank Park, with speeches, and gifts, would be a far more meaningful way of expressing the team and fans appreciation for him.

Religions are real. Whether you believe in God or not, you have to recognize that they affect the behavior of their adherents. The effects can be positive or negative, but they're real. All ideas are real.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5705558)
My favorite one is money. When you think about it, money is just a little story we tell ourselves.

It's a contractual arrangement. Everyone in the US agrees that we will buy and sell in US dollars. It's not fiction; it's a real contract, enforced by the Federal Gov't. If I owe you $1000, you can't insist I pay you in Euros or Bitcoin. You must accept US currency or its equivalent.
   32. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5705560)
#26 - No, it ultimately doesn't matter, but I think it's worth thinking about. Probably a more worthwhile topic than 1-day contracts, and a less worthwhile topic than "countries, religions."


Yeah I think they wanted to do two things;

1 - Bide some time until the Bogaerts/Betts/Bradley group arrived and build around that
2 - Bring in "character" guys to show those young kids the "right way" to play.

I think the shitshow of 2012 both in performance and off field BS (dating back to September, 2011) made Cherington and ownership think that was important. Was it? Who knows but that team was very good and even when they weren't in 2014 and 2015 rooting for them those years was still a hell of a lot more fun than 2012 had been.
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5705563)

Yeah I think they wanted to do two things;

1 - Bide some time until the Bogaerts/Betts/Bradley group arrived and build around that
2 - Bring in "character" guys to show those young kids the "right way" to play.
These motivations seem valid, but you're missing the more simple and obvious "thing" they wanted to do: sign good players at positions of need.

They could have gotten character guys for a lot cheaper than what they guaranteed to Napoli/Drew/Victorino/Dempster etc...
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5705564)
Religions are real. Whether you believe in God or not, you have to recognize that they affect the behavior of their adherents. The effects can be positive or negative, but they're real. All ideas are real.
Yep. As was commonly said back when I was a grad student in sociology, "things are real in their consequences."
   35. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5705568)
Man, you sheeple will believe anything. I'm gonna burn my wallet and free myself from the bonds of hegemonic narratives. Who's with me?
   36. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5705571)
These motivations seem valid, but you're missing the more simple and obvious "thing" they wanted to do: sign good players at positions of need.


Well yeah but I didn't list that because to me that's a given. Obviously the Sox wanted to improve, I'm not karl, I know that. But I think the two points I listed were key parts of that. I don't think they wanted tojust get nice guys who couldn't play but they also weren't looking for guys who can play without regard for personality (which is what made the Pierzynski move a year later so odd).
   37. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5705572)
Man, you sheeple will believe anything. I'm gonna burn my wallet and free myself from the bonds of hegemonic narratives. Who's with me?

Sure. Send me your money, and I'll burn it with mine.
   38. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5705575)
Well yeah but I didn't list that because to me that's a given. Obviously the Sox wanted to improve
I think it's a given, too. But reading that old thread as well as other ones in more recent years, that has not been universal sentiment.
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5705577)
Sure. Send me your money, and I'll burn it with mine.
If the Catholic thing ends up not working out, Snapper, you might have a future with an evangelical megachurch.
   40. Rally Posted: July 05, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5705583)
Which is why it is hilarious when someone argues for something like the gold standard, because they believe their shared delusion that a shiny rock is more accurate than the other shared delusion that paper money means something.


At least with gold there is a limit to how much money can be created.
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5705589)
At least with gold there is a limit to how much money can be created.

Which becomes very problematic when the worlds' economy grows, and the supply of money doesn't. There was a prolonged recession in much of the developed world in the 1870s and 1880s because of the deflationary impact of a fixed money supply, with rapidly growing demand for money.

Things didn't normalize until the Yukon and South African gold discoveries in the 1890s.
   42. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5705592)
Religions are real. Whether you believe in God or not, you have to recognize that they affect the behavior of their adherents.


Religions are a bullshit story that humans tell themselves. If affecting behavior makes something real, I guess Santa and Pokemon are both real.

   43. Sunday silence Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5705593)
...when I was a grad student in sociology, "things are real in their consequences.


I think a better description is that they are Constructs. These things are real only so long as people want to believe in them. When people cease to believe in them they will no longer exist.

For example. Napoleon "dissolved" the Holy Roman Empire. He just said it didnt exist anymore even though it had exist for like 800 years. And I guess people were like 'yeah, that really wasnt working for me anyhow.."

So yeah it dissolved into thin air.
   44. DavidFoss Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5705594)
Things didn't normalize until the Yukon and South African gold discoveries in the 1890s.

Good thing they didn't find too much. It'd be a bummer if you're some sort of Yosemite-Sam prospector and finding the mother lode doesn't make you rich but instead turns the entire world into a dystopian hellscape. I'd watch that movie, though.
   45. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5705597)
I'm gonna burn my wallet and free myself from the bonds of hegemonic narratives.


Okay, F-Society
   46. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5705599)
Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Bulbasaur. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy.
   47. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5705603)
There isn't anything that doesn't exist, guys.
   48. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:40 PM (#5705606)
Can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all.
   49. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5705608)
Good thing they didn't find too much. It'd be a bummer if you're some sort of Yosemite-Sam prospector and finding the mother lode doesn't make you rich but instead turns the entire world into a dystopian hellscape. I'd watch that movie, though.

There is a story about the King of Mali (?), passing through Egypt on pilgrimage to Mecca, and spending so much gold that he destroyed the local economy through hyper-inflation. Don't know if that's apocryphal.
   50. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5705610)
Religions are a bullshit story that humans tell themselves.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man. Billions of people feel otherwise, which makes their religions real.

Someone could just as easily say "human rights are a bullshit story..." or "democracy is a bullshit story...". That's the nature of ideas; their power and reality comes from acceptance.
   51. DavidFoss Posted: July 05, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5705614)
There is a story about the King of Mali (?), passing through Egypt on pilgrimage to Mecca, and spending so much gold that he destroyed the local economy through hyper-inflation. Don't know if that's apocryphal.

TIL. Sounds like Musa I of Mali in the early 1300s. (The link is wikipedia, but there are sources to follow from there).
   52. pthomas Posted: July 05, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5705634)
Religion Ruins Everything. But, back to baseball.

My favorite Victorino story:

Victorino is so popular that on Father’s Day, 2007, the Phillies honored him with a Hawaiian-themed day. His father was flown in from Maui for the game. Singer Danny Kalai sang “Tiny Bubbles” while the Philly Phanatic mascot pranced around in a grass skirt. Fans were given a Victorino bobblehead with Shane wearing a grass skirt and playing a ukelele.

And, oh yes, Shane just so happened to hit the game-winning home run in the bottom of the tenth against San Francisco. After the game, his teammates showered him with plastic lei. It couldn’t have been scripted any better.

One of the bobbleheads just sold for 45 bucks on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHANE-VICTORINO-PHILADELPHIA-PHILLIES-2007-HULA-BOBBLEHEAD-SGA-/232786589524
   53. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5705636)
I always "hated" that guy.
   54. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 05, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5705640)
There isn't anything that doesn't exist, guys.


“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”
   55. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 05, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5705648)
Someone could just as easily say "human rights are a bullshit story..." or "democracy is a bullshit story...".


Agreed.

That's the nature of ideas; their power and reality comes from acceptance.


And the one-day contract has been accepted as a modern-day social construct, despite you saying it is fiction.
   56. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 05, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5705654)
And the one-day contract has been accepted as a modern-day social construct, despite you saying it is fiction.

I would dispute that. No one looking back 20 years from now, or 10, or even 2, is going to say Victorino's last team was the Phillies. They'll look up his record and say that it was the Angels. It's a fiction in that no one remembers it for more than a few weeks past the press release. Do any of you have any recollection of which players have done this and which haven't? I know I couldn't have named one guy before seeing this article.
   57. SoSH U at work Posted: July 05, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5705668)
Do any of you have any recollection of which players have done this and which haven't?


JT Snow did it. I remember because it was very real to DanG.
   58. Blastin Posted: July 05, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5705679)
“Of course it is happening inside your headHarrybut why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” 


I love this quote. It helps me frame the sometimes erratic goings on in my addled brain.
   59. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5705684)
At the end of that season, I looked back at the ZiPS projections for that Sox team. The offense was something like 17 WAR over their projection; the pitchers added a couple more. (If I recall right.)

And possibly ZiPS got things laughably wrong but, post-2013:

Drew 1 WAR
Salty 0
Gomes -1.5
Victorino 1 (injury issues)
Nava 3.5 (a very good 2014)
Carp -1
Napoli 5 (a very good 2014)

In 2013, those 7 players combined for 21 WAR. In 2014, they combined for something like 8 WAR. By 2015, it would have been about zero. In 2013, ZiPS had projected them to about 8.7 (not paying attention to playing time). In 2014, ZiPS projected them to about 10.4 (again no correction). ZiPS was actually rather fond of Victorino ... and not too down on Will Middlebrooks!
   60. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:52 PM (#5705725)
So below is what I posted when the Sox signed Victorino:

They either believe having a former CF patrolling RF in Fenway is a big boost to keeping runs down(and accept the average bat for the position) or they are planning on moving Ellsbury in a package for some SP..that's all I can think of regarding this signing.


So not looking to bad as he managed to prove incredibly valuable in the field and on the bases along with the bat.

But then I added another sentence:

Still an 80 win team though.


Oops, now I look like a goose. But hey, I'd rather be wrong and have my team win the Series!
   61. Leroy Kincaid Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5705728)
2-time World Series champion


What is this? F!@#ing professional wrestling?
   62. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2018 at 08:58 PM (#5705747)
From that thread ... I was on a roll ...

Unless you support signing Hamilton for a lot of years and money, what 4+ win players do you expect the Red Sox to acquire? It is quite possible that the FO looked at what's available, decided they didn't want Hamilton and are simply cobbling together the best team from what's available at a non-outrageous price. That might not be the best decision but it would be a perfectly rational one.

Then went wandering in the wilderness ...

An interesting question is whether the Sox had the pieces to have pulled off the Marlins trade instead of the Jays -- Reyes, [Josh] Johnson, Buehrle is a big step up in talent (with risks attached).

As it turns out, that wouldn't have been too bad for 2013 -- Reyes 2.6 WAR and Buehrle 2.2 WAR. But Johnson was unfortunately toast as the arm finally completely gave out and he put up -1.5 WAR in 81 innings. Buehrle had 2 more years left on that contract and career and 4.8 WAR is still good. Reyes had a whopping 4 years left and had one more good year left (3.2 WAR in 2014).

The Marlins tossed in two more small ML pieces and got 7 players back, all of whom were in or made the majors. Yunel Escobar and Jeff Mathis were a money-balancing thing I assume and Escobar never played for Miami, has had two good seasons in the meantime. Henderson Alvarez had two good seasons before getting hurt and ending up in indy and Mexican leagues. DeSclafini has been OK, hurt, still around, barely played for the Marlins. Hechavarria is still around being your standard "can't we find a better starting SS?" starting SS. World Series Champion Jake Marisnick is still around and has successfully run down a lot of flyballs and occasionally hit (8.5 WAR, 3.5 WAA is a nice bench career but almost none of that for Miami). Justin Nicolino has been a AAAA starter.

So an interesting trade in the end. By total WAR since the trade, I'm pretty sure the 7 amassed more but none of them turned out to be particularly good. The Jays did get a decent short-term return of 2 good Reyes seasons and 3 solid-good Buehrle seasons although, in hindsight, holding onto Escobar and Alvarez might have done that too. The Jays paid a good amount of money for the privilege and the gamble on the always-fragile Johnson backfired.
   63. Srul Itza Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5705770)
Religion is real. Churches, mosques and synagogues are real. Priests, ministers, imams and rabbis are real.

The morals and ethics they teach are hortatory, and to the extent actually carried out by their adherents, are admirable.

The hatred toward non-believers they have fomented over the ages -- somewhat less so.

The mythical things they base some of those morals and ethics -- and hatreds -- upon, are no more real than Baal or Poseidon or Wotan -- or Maui or Pele.*

Even if Maui No Ka Oi.


*First person to make a futbol reference here will be condemned to a non-existent Perdition for All Eternity.
   64. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 06, 2018 at 12:46 AM (#5705815)
Friday, July 13th is Shane Victorino Bobblehead Night for the Scranton-Wilkes Barre Railriders, the Yankees AAA team. Presumably that's in recognition of his 2005 efforts when they had a Phillies affiliation. Only the first 2,500 fans qualify, so get there early.
   65. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:07 AM (#5705818)
3. Nasty Nate Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5705461)
I always liked this thread from when the Red Sox signed Victorino in the offseason between a last place season and a championship season.


20. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4317188)
So the optimistic view is that we just got a somewhat above average player for three years?

Didnt they lose 93 games last year?
Dont they have a 24 year old right fielder who can maybe be just as good next year?
Arent their two best prospects ticketed for the outfield?

I hate this signing.

Looking it over, I think the "24 year old right fielder who can maybe be just as good next year" was....Bryce Brentz!

(Spoiler: he was in fact not as good as Shane Victorino in 2013.)
   66. QLE Posted: July 06, 2018 at 04:27 AM (#5705820)
Looking it over, I think the "24 year old right fielder who can maybe be just as good next year" was....Bryce Brentz!


Or Ryan Kalish, for whom the same applies.
   67. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: July 06, 2018 at 07:22 AM (#5705826)
Religions are a bullshit story that humans tell themselves.

Religion Ruins Everything.


My, how quickly we go from Shane Victorino to God Is Dead around here.

During Shane's career (2003-15), he had the second best SB% (minimum 200 SBA) with 83.4% [231/277] (Carlos Beltran was tops with 86.0% [202/235]).
   68. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:18 AM (#5705837)
I remember being at a Cubs-Phillies game in 2009 when some jagoff in the bleachers threw his drink on Victorino when he tried to catch a fly ball. Fan interference.

There was a fun thread the next day at BTF as the Tribune posted a fun photo/graphic asking people to help identify the #########. (He was caught).
   69. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: July 06, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5705872)
Everyone in the US agrees that we will buy and sell in US dollars. It's not fiction; it's a real contract, enforced by the Federal Gov't. If I owe you $1000, you can't insist I pay you in Euros or Bitcoin. You must accept US currency or its equivalent.


Yes, congratulations on completely missing my point.

When I brought up money, I wasn't trying to make some of late-night, dorm-room, bong-hit point like, "Money is so weird, man, and it's so weird that people are obsessed with it." Of course money means something -- but it only means something because we all agree that it means something. It's sort of a cliché that every first year econ major worth his or her salt will stop at some point and go, "Wait, what even is money?" Because you start off thinking about fiat money -- ie, the dollar or the Euro, which only buy things because some government says that they should -- and you realize that it's basically founded on a promise, which could be gone back on, even if not easily. And that doesn't seem right, so you think, "Hmm. Maybe other kinds of money are more solidly built. This is just a social construct built on an ancient foundation." But then you think about money based on metals, like the old pound sterling or golden real, and then you think to yourself, "Hold the phone, why the hell is gold valuable? It's rare, but not that rare. It's not imbued with some divine quintessence. In this day and age it's not even held to be beautiful." And you realize that metal money is also more or less a fiction.

The story Snapper told above is exactly what I mean when I say money is a story we tell ourselves. The government has said a dollar is worth something, and we believe it, and we go around spending it on the assumption that that's true. But what a dollar is worth isn't fixed, and it isn't rooted in anything in the way that, say, food is. The US government says, "Accept dollars or I'll poke you in the eye with a sharp stick." And because the US government is exceptionally good at poking people in the eyes with sharp sticks, we all more or less agree. That doesn't make it not real, exactly; it makes it a bit abstract.

This can be seen in all the different weird things that have come to be viewed as forms of money. On the island of Yap, enormous stones, so big as to be immovable, have at various times functioned as a sort of money. In the 17th century it was considered completely kosher to trade shards of pieces of eight. Until Isaac Newton took over the mint, English commerce was conducted with fistfuls of rapidly-decaying "silver" that was often so alloyed with lead as to be malleable. Today, I can give you a piece of green fabric and you will give me a pack of gum. Or, weirder, some guy can go on a computer and change a number on his screen and suddenly I'm broke. On a really fundamental level, there's no there there.

That's what I mean when I say money is just a little story we tell ourselves.
   70. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5705924)
I can't believe how important not having these one-day signings/retirings are to some people. Lordy.

I happen to have tickets to that game and am going to enjoy the hell out of it. Victorino had his ADHD** moments, but he brought energy and talent to the field. And how can you not root for a guy who was Rule 5'd twice -- the last time the Dodgers (I believe I have the order right) didn't even want him back when the Phillies offered him. He also seems to be a good guy who gets that he was blessed -- he did some nice things in the community, both in Philly and Hawaii.


** Not saying he's been diagnosed, just once in a great while he'd make a totally bone-headed play.
   71. stevegamer Posted: July 06, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5706247)
Friday, July 13th is Shane Victorino Bobblehead Night for the Scranton-Wilkes Barre Railriders, the Yankees AAA team. Presumably that's in recognition of his 2005 efforts when they had a Phillies affiliation. Only the first 2,500 fans qualify, so get there early.


This is correct. It will be a Red Barons bobblehead, I saw it at the game I went to last Saturday.

That was the game they branded as the "Teddy Bears", and had a charity teddy bear toss. The uniforms & logos weren't good, so my fiancee didn't want anything from there. She got a magnet as her ballpark take home, and was very disappointed in the game.

Team shop is behind everywhere I've ever been, including independent ball. There was a lot of "NY Yankees" stuff to be bought, even souvenir food/beverage carriers to the point it neglected a selection of local stuff. There was also a weird amount of stuff for other MLB teams in the shop. She's a Yankee fan, and had trobule finding something that she wanted.

Only ballpark I've ever been to where I couldn't find any sort of a program upon entering.

Concessions were sub-par, again in the bottom 2 or 3, and one of those was in a much older ballpark.

Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is now the worst pro ballpark experience I've ever had. Make sure to go on a giveaway day to get something to remember your visit.


You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Andere Richtingen
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1215 - 4:48pm, Nov 16)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2406 - 4:46pm, Nov 16)
Last: . . . . . .

NewsblogFox Sports inks multi-year rights agreement with Major League Baseball
(28 - 4:45pm, Nov 16)
Last: aberg

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(296 - 4:29pm, Nov 16)
Last: Hysterical & Useless

Hall of MeritMock 2019 Today’s Game Hall of Fame Ballot
(55 - 4:13pm, Nov 16)
Last: Hysterical & Useless

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(424 - 4:12pm, Nov 16)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(19 - 4:01pm, Nov 16)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogHow Kevin Brown Became Baseball's First $100 Million Man
(8 - 4:00pm, Nov 16)
Last: Red Voodooin

NewsblogYelich, Betts Win MVPs
(53 - 3:59pm, Nov 16)
Last: Walt Davis

Hall of MeritMock 2019 Today’s Game Hall of Fame Election Results
(2 - 2:23pm, Nov 16)
Last: Rennie's Tenet

NewsblogPirates acquire three players in trade with Tribe
(25 - 2:11pm, Nov 16)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogAtlanta/Southeast BBTF meet up
(71 - 1:50pm, Nov 16)
Last: dlf

NewsblogJoe Mauer Retires After 15 Seasons
(79 - 1:31pm, Nov 16)
Last: Fernigal McGunnigle

NewsblogMarlins get rid of orange, cite South Florida cultures with new look
(23 - 12:13pm, Nov 16)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-16-2018
(5 - 12:12pm, Nov 16)
Last: vortex of dissipation

Page rendered in 0.5115 seconds
46 querie(s) executed