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Saturday, November 17, 2012

2012 WBC NOVEMBER QUALIFIERS DAY 4

Last night’s games:
Colombia 8, Nicaragua 1
New Zealand 10, Philippines 6 (Philippines eliminated)

Today’s games:
Brazil vs. Colombia, 2 PM
Nicaragua vs. Panama, 8 PM (Elimination game)
NZ vs. CT, 1 AM (winner to WBC)

All games on Worldbaseballclassic.com, with Taipei final on MLB Network.

 

Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 12:34 PM | 200 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wbc, world baseball classic

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   101. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4305157)
When they make the movie, the sixteen-year-old will be facing a bigger big leaguer than Martinez.


And bigger than Jolbert.
   102. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 17, 2012 at 06:51 PM (#4305160)
Barry Larkin's having a hell of a year.

If Brazil does qualify, do you think they'll get sent off to Japan?
   103. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4305178)
I'm thinking the 4 are probably already pre-determined:

Canada: US
Spain: Japan
Winner in Panama: DR
Winner in Taiwan: Taiwan
   104. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4305193)

Canada: US
Spain: Japan
Winner in Panama: DR
Winner in Taiwan: Taiwan


Actually, the Caribbean round is again in Hiram Bithorn at Puerto Rico, but I know what you means.

If Taiwan somehow DOESN'T win tonight in Taiwan, I heard that they will probably move that pool to Korea. The attendance in games that don't involve the "home" team is bad enough sometimes (especially outside of the USA- since there are usually enough expats and people of XXXXX heritage- and Puerto Rico- since it's close enough to the other Caribbean countries that they are easily able to show up), if they were to hold a WBC round in Taiwan without Taiwan there at all, it could turn into a PR nightmare (and I don't mean PR for Puerto Rico).


That said, I totally see what you put down as what will shake out. The only possibility I can think of it being different is MAYBE Canada would start in Puerto Rico if they want to increase the diversity between the pools with the Panama winner coming to Arizona and/or try to rig the Arizona pool to give the USA a better chance of advancing for marketing reasons. No way they are sending Canada to Asia, though.
   105. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4305194)
Oh, and the link to Nicaragua-Panama elimination game is here.
   106. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4305198)
Just as an example of what I mean by the "home team bump", here's a look at the Taiwanese round so far:

Games that involved Taiwan have had attendances of 9,788 and 10,911
Games that haven't involved Taiwan have had attendances of 923, 1,168 and 503.

Now admittedly I'm sure a game between Korea and the Netherlands would draw better than New Zealand facing the Philippines, but...
   107. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:17 PM (#4305206)
Eliecer Navarro (Pirates Organization) is throwing a lot of pitches in this first inning...
   108. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4305207)
Oops, I meant PR.

I think having a 1st round being in Taiwan was a mistake. It's odd enough to have a team who went 0-2 last time host the 1st round, but since they haven't even qualified yet, this could turn out to be kinda disatrous. I realize MLB was probably trying to help "lift up" baseball over there after all that's gone on, but they should have left it at the qualifiers and had the 1st round be in Korea...
   109. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4305208)

Panama gets out of that inning, which is huge.
   110. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4305209)
PANAMA!
PANAMA-A!
   111. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4305210)
First blood.
looks like i missed another busy top of the first.
   112. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4305212)
oh man, I would not want El Prisdente tearing a strip off me.
   113. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4305214)
Just thinking ahead to 2016/2017, assuming there are no WTF eliminations in the first round of the WBC, It'll be interesting to see where the qualifiers will be.
   114. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4305215)
Whatever El Presidente said, it sure as heck made a difference. Maybe the Astros should be making him pitching coach instead of bullpen coach.
   115. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4305217)
I'd love to see some games come back up to Canada, but aside from Toronto, there really isn't anywhere else to put the games [the Big O is a non-starter].
   116. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4305218)
I'd love to see some games come back up to Canada, but aside from Toronto, there really isn't anywhere else to put the games [the Big O is a non-starter].


I seem to recall reading somewhere that the renovation of BC Place might be better suited for baseball than the old one was. Main problem would be the scoreboard would be low enough where there could be Jerry-Dome style ricochets.
   117. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4305219)
I think whatever El P has works best in small doses. He used to scare the heck out of me when I was a kid.
   118. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4305220)
I have to think that if the 3 Asian powers and Australia don't need to qualify, that the Philippines will host a qualifier. They have a pretty big (10,000 +) stadium in Manila that was built before WWII. Lou Gehrig hit the first home run there, or something. Would probably need some work though, I imagine.
   119. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4305221)
BC Place would have a very short right or left field too. It could work, but the seats, would point in odd directions, sort of Fenway-esque.
   120. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4305222)
Gamesmanship by El Presidente!
   121. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4305223)
Manilla makes a ton of sense. Holland too.
ooh, [unsuccessful] skullduggery!
   122. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4305228)
Canada not being one of the host cities for the qualifiers was certainly odd... a number of places with higher seating capacity than Jupiter...
   123. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4305233)
Only problem with Holland would be, well, rain. Maybe Italy would make for a better European qualifier.


Looking at the most likely groups in the coming WBC:

Group A: Japan, China, Cuba and probably Spain. If China were to be last, they don't have the stadiums to host a qualifier. Spain, however, does, as one of the stadiums from the '92 Olympics is still standing near Barcelona (there's this one suburb of Barcelona- Viladecans- that is a baseball hotbed).

Group B: Korea, Netherlands, Australia and the Taipei winner. Probably the only team we can say for sure would have no shot of coming in last in this group would be Korea. That said, the Netherlands, Australia and Taipei all have stadiums good enough for hosting a qualifier.

Group C: Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Dominican, Panama Winner. I have to think that whoever comes out of Panama would be the most likely last place team, and any one of them with the exception of Brazil has stadiums good enough for qualifiers.

Group D: USA, Mexico, Italy and probably Canada. Obviously if the USA were to somehow end up in last they'd change the rules to make the USA advance immediately (and the embarrassment would be so great that there might finally be a "2004 Olympic Basketball" moment that would thrust it into the public eye), but any of the other three countries could host qualifiers.
   124. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4305234)
Yeah, I think crapping out last time really hurt.
On the other hand we managed to find a car dealership to sponsor the Italian team, so youneverknow.
   125. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4305235)
I think Canada being forced to head to Germany was basically a case of "You guys stunk it up and there are teams using all of your stadiums, so guess what? Enjoy scenic Regensburg and don't mess up again."
   126. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4305236)
playing tight.
   127. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4305237)
If there was a WBC equivalent of Conradian, that would have been it.
   128. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4305239)
Were teams playing in Ottawa or Edmonton at the time? They both have active parks that seat more than Roger Dean... Of course, I think MLB was thinking Israel was going to bring a lot more people then they did...
   129. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4305240)
Thing is, I think it worked to their advantage. The touring team is more of a team, & they've played their butts off the past year & a bit. The talent upgrade in the next round will help, but having major-leaguers parachute in is a mixed blessing.
   130. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4305241)
It's a bit chilly to be playing ball in either Ottawa or Edmonton right now. Even the park in Vancouver would be pretty bleak, and rainy.

[edit] oops, or in October, when the games actually happened

[edit2]end of september? maybe
   131. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4305243)
Yeah, but the Jupiter qualifiers were in September.
   132. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4305245)
You got me. Ottawa & Vancouver would have been chilly, but no worse than Germany. And all of those fields would have been available.
   133. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4305246)
Yeah, I'm guessing it was a case of "overestimating the number of people who would go see Israel". A noble idea that didn't pan out in the stands.
   134. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4305249)
That and overestimating the number of fans who would prefer international baseball to the pennant races.
   135. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4305252)
Of course, if they kept the games in Jupiter to this week as they initially planned, Israel would have had some MLB'ers on the team and would have brought a lot more people (including me, who was originally planning my vacation around it)
   136. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4305254)
Chooch!
   137. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4305255)
Jeez, this game isn't moving as fast as the early one.
Bad call.
   138. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4305256)
Forgot they moved the dates too. Still a work in progress.
   139. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4305257)
Of course, if they kept the games in Jupiter to this week as they initially planned, Israel would have had some MLB'ers on the team and would have brought a lot more people (including me, who was originally planning my vacation around it)


That is true. I do have to think that having Youkilis, Kinsler, etc. would be getting more butts in the seats.
   140. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4305260)
Metres: basically the same as yards.
   141. OsunaSakata Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4305263)
Was that a home plate ad for the Panama Canal? I didn't realize they needed publicity. Or it just like Coke - brand awareness?
   142. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4305265)
When you watch the WBC qualifiers though, it makes you realize both why these qualifiers are needed if they are going to expand the tournament and why there is the mercy rule. Can you imagine what a MLB-player-filled Team USA could do to Thailand? Or what a Canada with Votto, Morneau, Lawrie, etc would have done in the Germany pool? Or even a MLB-less Japan (as it is looking like Japan might be out of luck with getting MLB players this year since they are all free agents or hurt) against France?
   143. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4305267)
Yeah. And why they still have to play the games: there's always a chance that a team like the Dutch will mess stuff up.
   144. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:32 PM (#4305268)

Yeah. And why they still have to play the games: there's always a chance that a team like the Dutch will mess stuff up.


Or Brazil. Or Italy or China in 2009, which took out Canada and Taipei.
   145. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:33 PM (#4305269)
The beauty of baseball.
   146. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4305270)
Airhorns on the other hand, just make it seem like menacing giant geese.
   147. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4305271)
Airhorns on the other hand, just make it seem like menacing giant geese.

God help us if they ever have qualifiers in South Africa.
   148. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4305273)
I live in fear of the vuvuzela.
   149. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4305274)
Good, but not great crowd for an elimination game.
   150. Tschingsch Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4305276)
Annoying sounds are a baseball staple. Some cultures have horns, some have vuvuzelas, we have Tim McCarver...
   151. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4305278)
"Check Local Listings" for the Kiwis & Taiwan. My listings say: online or nothing.
   152. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4305279)
Looks about as big as the Panama-Brazil game. I can't tell, but it seems that the empty seats seem to be glorified cement benches.
   153. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4305280)
150 The Devil Rays used to have that heckler...
   154. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4305281)
"Check Local Listings" for the Kiwis & Taiwan. My listings say: online or nothing.


It's on MLB Network. Does Canada still not have it?
   155. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4305282)
Playing tight.
   156. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4305283)
150 The Devil Rays used to have that heckler...


And the Indians have that dude with the drum.
   157. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:45 PM (#4305284)
MlB network isn't available on my crappy cable monopoly.
   158. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4305286)
Yep, the empty seats do appear to be cement bleachers.
   159. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4305287)
Forgot about the dude with the drum.
Martinez looks like he's trying to dial it back.
   160. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4305289)
Concur about the benches. In Cuba people used to bring a couple of bits of cardboard for their butts. otherwise standing is much more appealing.
   161. OsunaSakata Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4305292)
BERMAN Espinosa? Do you think there's an Olberman Delgado, Kornheiser Gonzalez or Stephen A. Cordoba?
   162. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4305293)
Tejada! They're cheering on Long Island!
   163. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4305295)
They hit Chooch! Those chooches!
   164. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4305296)
Sterling Cordoba maybe?
   165. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4305298)
ugly
   166. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4305299)
Is Dennis Martinez trying to cause a international incident?
   167. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4305300)
"Hit him in a good spot"
   168. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4305301)
They pinch-hit for Ruben Rivera. In revenge, they will all find their lockers cleaned out post-game.
   169. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4305303)
Was trying to remember if it was that Rivera.
   170. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 17, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4305306)
Holy cow, Mendoza looks pretty good...

Duty calls. 'Til 7pm tomorrow...
   171. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4305307)
Later, 'Spos.
   172. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4305324)
Hmmm Nicaragua has the tying run at the plate.
   173. Gamingboy Posted: November 17, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4305329)
Only able to get one. 4-2 in the 7th.
   174. Gamingboy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 12:55 AM (#4305375)
Panama has finally won a WBC game!
   175. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 18, 2012 at 12:56 AM (#4305378)
Re-registering my complaint from the last qualifying rounds to the effect that Panama should have to beat Brazil twice to move on, but otherwise looking forward to the final.
   176. Obo Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:00 AM (#4305380)
Panama and Colombia play first, TFB. Winner plays Brazil on Monday.
   177. Tschingsch Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:01 AM (#4305382)
23 people left on base in that game... tomorrow's game should be good.

1 more hour till the Asia/Australasia bracket finals.
   178. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:21 AM (#4305392)
Got ahead of myself there. I'll amend: Re-registering my complaint from the last qualifying rounds to the effect that Panama (or Colombia) should have to beat Brazil twice to move on, but otherwise looking forward to the final.
   179. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:23 AM (#4305393)
1 more hour till the Asia/Australasia bracket finals.


What with the crazy time zone difference, I hadn't realized this. Tempting to stay up and see how it turns out, but I don't think that's going to happen.
   180. Gamingboy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:27 AM (#4305396)
I'll amend: Re-registering my complaint from the last qualifying rounds to the effect that Panama (or Colombia) should have to beat Brazil twice to move on, but otherwise looking forward to the final.


Agreed. Would be better if it was true double-elimination instead of "modified" double elimination. Although, admittedly, getting to the final round first does have advantages. For example, Brazil will have more rested bullpen arms while Panama/Colombia will be wasting some due to pitch limits.

I'll probably catch the first inning or so and then fall asleep.
   181. Obo Posted: November 18, 2012 at 01:27 AM (#4305397)
Yeah, I think double elimination tournaments work great until the final, at which point there doesn't seem to be a good way to decide the winner. One game for everything is unfair to the team that came through the winner's bracket, while having different winning requirements for the two finalists is aesthetically displeasing.
   182. Gamingboy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 02:02 AM (#4305415)
Rain delay? Screw it, I'm going to bed.
   183. Tschingsch Posted: November 18, 2012 at 02:03 AM (#4305416)
I didn't see the "rain delay" note on the top of the screen, and was about to go ballistic that they decided not to show the game so they could show "top 25 best facial hair"...
   184. Tschingsch Posted: November 18, 2012 at 02:07 AM (#4305418)
One game for everything is unfair to the team that came through the winner's bracket, while having different winning requirements for the two finalists is aesthetically displeasing.


I don't know, "lose 2 games and you're eliminated" seems like a uniform requirement to me...
   185. OsunaSakata Posted: November 18, 2012 at 02:34 AM (#4305426)
I don't know, "lose 2 games and you're eliminated" seems like a uniform requirement to me...


You can win your first two games, but lose the final and you're eliminated. If Chinese Taipei loses today vs. NZ, they're eliminated despite losing only once.
   186. Tschingsch Posted: November 18, 2012 at 03:09 AM (#4305434)
Yes, I was referring to (and agreeing with) the thought that the 2-0 team should need to be beaten twice before they are eliminated, and that changing the rules to that would not be "having different winning requirements"
   187. Obo Posted: November 18, 2012 at 04:38 AM (#4305441)
I was referring to the final itself. Having two teams left and asking one to win once and the other twice is oddly asymmetric, even if it makes sense in the context of the entire tournament.
   188. Gamingboy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 05:53 AM (#4305444)
I awake early and see the game is still in delay. Therefore, here's a picture of a baby koala bear, presented for no reason.
   189. Lassus Posted: November 18, 2012 at 08:46 AM (#4305449)
########## New Zealand is behind.
   190. Lassus Posted: November 18, 2012 at 08:52 AM (#4305450)
Is there nowhere to get video of this NZ game?
   191. Lassus Posted: November 18, 2012 at 08:53 AM (#4305451)
Oh dear. NZ now just getting murdered.
   192. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 18, 2012 at 09:12 AM (#4305453)
Lassus I take it you found it here, right?

http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/wbc/2013/video/play.jsp?topic_id=38613768&content_id=25491823
   193. Lassus Posted: November 18, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4305454)
I did, but it's become too sad to watch. I was hoping for a NZ win, and that shot, it is currently long.
   194. Lassus Posted: November 18, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4305458)
The WBC has a Mercy rule? I had no idea.

OK, now is the time for an 11-run rally.
   195. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4305462)
One game for everything is unfair to the team that came through the winner's bracket, while having different winning requirements for the two finalists is aesthetically displeasing.

Eh, it's a pretty standard requirement in gaming tournaments with double elimination brackets.
   196. morineko Posted: November 18, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4305512)
Just watched a bit of what they're showing on MLBN right now (the bit before Taiwan scored all those runs.) Notes: Beau Bishop seems like the Most Enthusiastic Catcher Ever. His passed ball totals weren't as bad as some other 18/19-year-old catchers in the complex leagues I can name (yup, the Brewers catchers, ugh) but it looks like his hitting may need work. (He's one of the converted softballers, right?)

Softball is a large minor sport in New Zealand, if their newspaper sports sections are any indication.

NZ's left fielder reminds me of Lance Berkman, kind of.
   197. Gamingboy Posted: November 18, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4305548)
I remember reading that Softball is big in New Zealand, and that actually that's part of the reason why baseball is New Zealand's fastest growing summer sport: they already have the equipment and more-or-less know the rules, so it's not that big a divergence.


If Taipei can have crowds like the games that had Taipei in it rather than the Thailand-Philippines affairs, they will be good hosts during the WBC proper.

And Lassus, the mercy rule is most definitely needed, especially with the pitch-counts: if they didn't have it, some of these games would be 30-1 affairs that would burn every pitcher on the losing team's pitch-counts. Earlier in this thread, for example, I wondered how badly a MLB-laden Team USA could beat Team Thailand if there were no mercy rules.
   198. Walt Davis Posted: November 18, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4305602)
baseball is New Zealand's fastest growing summer sport

You realize this only requires 5 people picking up the sport? :-)
   199. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 18, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4305627)
[198] I think you'd need at least 18. ;)
   200. RollingWave Posted: November 19, 2012 at 01:39 AM (#4305768)
Well that wasn't too surprising, Taiwan's pitcher is a pretty good up and comer in the NPB, and a lefty for that matter, he simply blew away most of the Kiwis with ease.

Here's hoping they actually make some serious noise this time around in the first round. last time's lost to China was a disastrous moment for us.

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