Why would you balk at going to a contender and prefer to go to a team that isn't going anywhere? Is the big stage too much for him?

Not sure if the article mentions it, but they mentioned on Hot Stove tonight that Burnett's reluctance to a trade out West is that he lives on the East Coast and his wife has a fear of flying.

Man, as a Yankee fan I love every part of that proposed trade except the part where AJ blocked it. I hope the Yankees keep trying to get Abreu for a cheap price.

That said, I have no hard feelings toward AJ. Given what #2 said, that seems like a perfectly good reason to turn it down.

3 way: Abreau to Yanks, Burnett to Pirates, Angels get that "middling prospect" they say they would move Abreau for.

His wife lives on the East Coast and has a fear of flying. That sounds like even more reason to go to a West Coast team to me.

3 way: Abreau to Yanks, Burnett to Pirates, Angels get that "middling prospect" they say they would move Abreau for.

I'm guessing that the Angels actually want Burnett.

Word around here is that the holdup on Burnett to the Pirates is that the Yankees want an actual prospect back for him, and the Pirates are only willing to give salary relief.

I can't really blame Huntington on that one.

Word around here is that the holdup on Burnett to the Pirates is that the Yankees want an actual prospect back for him, and the Pirates are only willing to give salary relief.

I can't really blame Huntington on that one.

Seriously. Why in the world would a team in the Pirates' position give up a useful talent for a guy who's both expensive and not likely to be any good when the team gets good again (yeah, I know--chortle away)?

Of course, that kind of raises the question of why the Bucs are interested in Burnett at all.

Seriously. Why in the world would a team in the Pirates' position give up a useful talent for a guy who's both expensive and not likely to be any good when the team gets good again (yeah, I know--chortle away)?

You gotta overpay for the intermediate guys to get the top guys to sign with you. Look at the Royals. Everyone was critical when they signed Gil Meche, but now the top tier free agents are lining up at their doorstep.

Woah I already totally forgot about Gil Meche. That was fast.

Of course, that kind of raises the question of why the Bucs are interested in Burnett at all.

Someone has to throw innings next year. MLB owners are far from patient... at a certain point, even if the organization is making steps forward (which I think the Pirates have been and are), all it takes is a 62-100 season for an owner to get annoyed and push to fire the GM. Draft slot when you're not at the very bottom is not all that important, so it's better to try to actually win games if it can be done with no long term consequences (and Burnett seems to satisfy that constraint).

Pirates should have a pretty good defense next year, Burnett had good peripherals in the second half of last season. If they have the money to burn, why the hell not?

Burnett's reluctance to a trade out West is that he lives on the East Coast and his wife has a fear of flying.

Yes, clearly it would be impossible to drive her from the East Coast to California. The dream is still alive that one day there will be an automobile that will allow people to pack up their belongings and drive from coast to coast and settle down in a new city, but until then...there's Pittsburgh.

Yes, clearly it would be impossible to drive her from the East Coast to California.

She doesn't want to live in California.

I think I'd rather have nothing than Abreu. He's looking toasty.

No point in helping the Angels either. They could be WC competition.

I really think the Yankees are making a mistake if they trade Burnett for pennies on the dollar (Abreu would be a good move though). I don't think he'll be critical to their success in 2012 but the AL is top heavy enough that I wouldn't want to give away any starting pitching depth if I didn't have to.

She doesn't want to live in California.

And who can blame her?

I really think the Yankees are making a mistake if they trade Burnett for pennies on the dollar (Abreu would be a good move though). I don't think he'll be critical to their success in 2012 but the AL is top heavy enough that I wouldn't want to give away any starting pitching depth if I didn't have to.

He's pretty much at the bottom of a long list of guys who they'd give starts to. And ownership won't let Cashman sign a lefty half of the DH platoon until they clear some of Burnett's salary.

If I were the Yankees, this is what I'd do:

(dons a black hoodie, appearing somewhat like the Emperor and/or the Grim Reaper)

ALLAN JAMES BURNETT. YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES! YOU WILL GO TO THE WORLD SERIES CONTENDER LOS ANGELES ANGELS OF ANAHEIM, 2000 GENE AUTRY WAY, ZIP CODE 92806, ORANGE COUNTRY, CALIFORNIA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, NORTH AMERICA, NORTHWESTERN HEMISPHERE, PLANET EARTH, SOL SYSTEM... OR YOU WILL GO TO PITTSBURGH!"

She doesn't want to live in California.

I'd rather live in Pitssburgh.

Edit: Gamingboy, close your bolding.

How about Pittsburg, California, would you live there?

How about Pittsburg, California, would you live there?

Maybe, don't know it. I might also consider California, PA, home of the hilariously titled California University of Pennsylvania.

Tried to close the bold, but can't do it. Sorry.

I think I'd rather have nothing than Abreu. He's looking toasty.

No point in helping the Angels either. They could be WC competition.

Abreu's OPS+ over the last 2 years: 118, 104
Burnett's ERA+ over the last 2 years: 82, 86

Which of them is looking toasty? Honestly, I really don't see how A.J. Burnett helps anyone get closer to a pennant. According to Baseball Reference he's got .6 WAR over the last 2 years. I realize FanGraphs likes him a bit better, but he's gone through long stretches over those last two years when you just didn't want him going anywhere near the mound.

Now, he's a head case, so it's possible he'll go to someplace like Pittsburgh and pull it back together when there's no pressure or spotlight on him so he might be worth a flier from them, but if I were the Angels, I wouldn't want him.

Abreu's OPS+ over the last 2 years: 118, 104
Burnett's ERA+ over the last 2 years: 82, 86

Which of them is looking toasty?

You have to look at peripherals as well as results.

Abreu's power is gone, 112 ISO last year. He BABIP is 30 pts below his career level. I just don't think he hits the ball hard enough any more. When pitchers figure it out, the walks will go, and he'll be useless.

I'd rather give the ABs to Russell Branyan.

fixed?

edit: Nope, I guess.

end bold</b>

EDIT: Don't know why I thought I could fix what everyone else couldn't.

Wow, I never would have suspected trading Burnett would get so intense.

All we need is TOLAXOR to come in and start posting IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS to complete the intensity of this thread.

26. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 16, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4062306)
end bold</b>

EDIT: Don't know why I thought I could fix what everyone else couldn't.

Remember kids, drugs are bad.

Give this a shot here.

BBTF MAKES BOLD CASE FOR BURNETT'S VALUE

edit--Damn you Monk!

3 way: Abreau to Yanks, Burnett to Pirates, Angels get that "middling prospect" they say they would move Abreau for.

In honor of the Angels' proud tradition of power-hitting prospects who disappoint spectacularly, they can have the retroactive rights to Brad Eldred and J.R. House.

Yeah, sorry about that. Timing was quite frankly hysterical.

Why would you balk at going to a contender and prefer to go to a team that isn't going anywhere? Is the big stage too much for him?

If I were him, I might prefer Pittsburgh. It might be the best place to rehab his value. He'd have a much longer leash than he would with a contender. The Pirates aren't going to pay him $6-7 M a year to not be in the opening day rotation. The Angels, who are elite contenders now, wouldn't hesitate to. If he turns things around, Huntington will trade him anyway. And he might have better numbers in the NL Central than the AL.

Obviously, it's long past time for a "MR. PRESIDENT!" here.

OK, Bolding fixed.


Yup.

EDIT: #36, the problem with putting in tags by hand. He had used square bracket b

There are a lot of syntactically valid ways of getting bold text, and the people who'd tried so far hadn't guessed that one.

I suspect she doesn't want to pay taxes in California. Otherwise it's Nirvana for rich people. He had to deal with NY taxes to get his deal, but that doesn't mean he has to agree to help close the CA budget gap when he has a NTC.

Maybe, don't know it. I might also consider California, PA, home of the hilariously titled California University of Pennsylvania.

There's also an Indiana University of Pennsylvania, located, of course, in Indiana, PA. Funny folks, those keystoners.

You know, you have to get through Intercourse to get to Paradise.

(Both of which are near Bird-in-Hand and Blue Ball! In Amish Country!)

Oh Pennsylvania, the source of my maternal heritage..

I might also consider California, PA, home of the hilariously titled California University of Pennsylvania.

Ah, CUP... Chuck Berry's favorite institution of higher learning.

You know, you have to get through Intercourse to get to Paradise.

In that vein, I always regretted that Intercourse, PA and Climax, MI weren't closer together.

Abreu's another borderline HOFer who'll be one and done in the voting. Pity. Philly handled his career brilliantly, in terms of letting him go at age 32 when he cost the most and started to decline.

Amazing that he got ZERO HOF votes in 2002, his best season by OPS.

I don't find that amazing at all.

#43 He also got no MVP votes. And I don't find that amazing either.

It would actually have been kinda amazing had he gotten HOF votes in 2002.

Er. Um. [slinks away from thread]

Philly handled his career brilliantly, in terms of letting him go at age 32 when he cost the most and started to decline.

You must have a incredibly low standard for brilliance. $/WAR would say Abreu was worth just about what he was paid for the remainder of his contract and the Phillies got absolutely nothing in return for him. Even at the time, the players the Phillies got were not really considered great prospects.

You have an incredibly low threshold for confusion:

Abreu w the Phillies: 47.0 WAR Salary: 64 million
Abreu after the Phillies: 11.8 WAR Salary : 51 million

Hey, the Phillies got touted prospect CJ Henry in that trade. Of course then he refused to play for an organization other than the Yankees, and the Phillies had to waive him. Of course then he quit the Yankees after another couple of months and did what he had committed to do four years earlier, play basketball for the Kansas Jayhawks. Of course then he left when his brother declared for the NBA draft, and is now dominating the NAIA's Sooner Athletic Conference at age 25.

You have an incredibly low threshold for confusion:

Abreu w the Phillies: 47.0 WAR Salary: 64 million
Abreu after the Phillies: 11.8 WAR Salary : 51 million

Someone here is confused. I will give you a hint, it's not me.

The fact that the Angels overpaid him has nothing to do with the Phillies. All that matters is what he did while he was under the contract he was on when the Phillies traded him. The Yankees paid $35.4m for 7.3 WAR(~$4.8M/WAR), not great, but not terrible. Certainly worth more than what the Phillies got in return, which was nothing. Even if you want to argue that the Phillies traded him at the right time, they still got NOTHING in return. So yes, you have a very low standard for brilliance or you have no clue what you are talking about.

NAIA's Sooner Athletic Conference

Hey! Didn't Dennis Rodman go to Southeastern!

She doesn't want to live in California.
And who can blame her?

hey now.

How about Pittsburg, California, would you live there?

consensus among CA peeps i know is negative. but it is on the BART, so you can run to SF whenever.

but it is on the BART, so you can run to SF whenever.

It's not a quick commute on BART. Having lived in both the East Bay and Allegheny County, the burgh with the h is a far more pleasant place to live. Also, it has a street layout about as symmetrical as Berkeley's.

...home of the hilariously titled California University of Pennsylvania.

I always found Miami University of Ohio to be a bit jarring. And severely deficient in bikinis.

California University of Pennsylvania

Is kind of near Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

It's not a quick commute on BART.

It's a hell of a ride though. You get on the train at Market Street, and when you get off at Pitt/Bay Point, it's like the train dropped you off on another planet.

You get the same feeling with the train to Richmond. But in that case, you may actually be on another planet. And not a very nice one.

I always found Miami University of Ohio to be a bit jarring. And severely deficient in bikinis.

Having lived in Ohio, I'm going to argue that it's not deficient enough.

It's a hell of a ride though. You get on the train at Market Street, and when you get off at Pitt/Bay Point, it's like the train dropped you off on another planet.

You get the same feeling with the train to Richmond. But in that case, you may actually be on another planet. And not a very nice one.

Yes to both - I usually take BART to court in either place, and from downtown SF it feels like you've traveled a lot further than an hour.
It's really nice when the train comes out from underground, and empties out. The scenery's not great, but it is diverting.

#50 I've said it often enough but it bears repeating. The salary that a player rates to command as a free agent and his objective impact on a team's bottom line are two different things.

As a group, free agents are overpaid relative to their economic value by a significant amount. ~1/3 before calculating "extra" value (for instance if a signing is the difference between making or missing the playoffs it's pretty much always an economic winner, and in general the costs of the first year are (probably) offset by increased demand created by the signing.

All that to say that while you're talking across from each other to an extent, your point that they couldn't have signed him more cheaply is valid -- he's been paid very close to what you'd expect to pay for somebody of his talents. But his point that they're very likely ahead of the game financially for not having done so is equally valid.

She doesn't want to live in California.

Well of course everyone would choose Pittsburg over Newport Beach.....

I always found Miami University of Ohio to be a bit jarring. And severely deficient in bikinis.

You were there the wrong time of the year if you missed the bikinis. Miami of Ohio is named after the Miami tribe, which lived in the area. The Miami River runs south through Dayton and near Oxford before emptying into the Ohio River west of Cincinnati. Miami, Florida is supposedly named after the initial deed on the swamp purchased by two guys from Hamilton, Ohio, although that is disputed.

I would have thought that Pittburg/Baypoint or Richmond would have gentrified and prospered after BART came in. But I guess it takes more than good transportation.

In that vein, I always regretted that Intercourse, PA and Climax, MI weren't closer together.

Ummmm .... not sure what this says about Mrs. Blanston.

Can we all agree that Oakland (CA or PA) is right out?

From today's NY Post:

Sources: Yankees’ Burnett will be a Pirate ‘probably Saturday’
By GEORGE A. KING III
Last Updated: 6:33 AM, February 17, 2012

TAMPA — The A.J. Burnett Era in The Bronx will end today or tomorrow.

According to multiple industry sources, the Yankees and Pirates are nearing a deal that would send the right-hander to Pittsburgh for two marginal prospects Pittsburgh and absorbing $13 to $15 million of the $33 million Burnett is owed this season and next.

"It will happen this weekend," a person familiar with the deal predicted. "Probably Saturday."

The optimism that a deal can get finished flows from the Pirates increasing their obligation to the $33 million. ...

While Raul Ibanez appears to be the Yankees’ choice to fill the left-handed DH hole over Johnny Damon, the Yankees are waiting to complete the Burnett deal before addressing that issue.

While Raul Ibanez appears to be the Yankees’ choice to fill the left-handed DH hole over Johnny Damon, the Yankees are waiting to complete the Burnett deal before addressing that issue.

Whoever they sign will probably be cut by July, so why hurry.

...for two marginal prospects Pittsburgh and absorbing $13 to $15 million of the $33 million Burnett is owed this season and next.

I can't be the only one who finds this a shockingly shitty deal for the Pirates, can I?

I can't be the only one who finds this a shockingly shitty deal for the Pirates, can I?

I'd assume they're under MLBPA pressure to raise payroll. As of now, the payroll only projects to about $45M. Plus, the rotation is very thin.

Assuming the prospects are worthless, it's probably a good deal for Pittsburgh to add some rotation stability (Burnett will probably be a 1.5-2.0 WAR pitcher for them) at $6-7M p.a., and placate the MLBPA.

OK, I can revise - shockingly, no; shitty, yes.

Lassus, I think it's fine as long as what they're giving back are Z level suspects. If they have any upside (beyond that which any reasonably athletic young man has), it's likely to be a bad deal for them.

Unless they believe they've spotted something. Always possible that Burnett has a correctable mechanical problem (though the track record on this point is generally not good)

#50 I've said it often enough but it bears repeating. The salary that a player rates to command as a free agent and his objective impact on a team's bottom line are two different things.

As a group, free agents are overpaid relative to their economic value by a significant amount. ~1/3 before calculating "extra" value (for instance if a signing is the difference between making or missing the playoffs it's pretty much always an economic winner, and in general the costs of the first year are (probably) offset by increased demand created by the signing.

All that to say that while you're talking across from each other to an extent, your point that they couldn't have signed him more cheaply is valid -- he's been paid very close to what you'd expect to pay for somebody of his talents. But his point that they're very likely ahead of the game financially for not having done so is equally valid.

I don't disagree with your general point. However, you misunderstood me. I simply said that the Phillies shouldn't be called brilliant for dumping Abreu for absolutely nothing in return. He produced value that was near enough to what he was paid on that contract after he was traded. That means the Phillies traded an asset that had some value for absolutely nothing in return. I don't see how that can be called brilliant.

The contract he signed with the Angels is utterly irrelevant to judging the trade the Phillies and the Yankees made.

Er,

I don't disagree with your general point. However, you misunderstood me. I simply said that the Phillies shouldn't be called brilliant for dumping Abreu for absolutely nothing in return. He produced value that was near enough to what he was paid on that contract after he was traded. That means the Phillies traded an asset that had some value for absolutely nothing in return. I don't see how that can be called brilliant.

He misunderstood you because you've been playing with yourself too much, and besides, being at least as expensive as the then current $/WAR isn't "an asset that had some value", it's having something that has no value, since it doesn't bring anything that can't readily be gotten on the market.

The contract he signed with the Angels is utterly irrelevant to judging the trade the Phillies and the Yankees made.

No, it's irrelevant only because you want it to be. I wrote,

Abreu's another borderline HOFer who'll be one and done in the voting. Pity. Philly handled his career brilliantly, in terms of letting him go at age 32 when he cost the most and started to decline

See, "his career" means "his career". I know that baffles you, but that's your problem. His career means, among other things, "What the Phillies paid him" and "What all other teams paid him". The Phillies got the heart of Abreu's career and left it to other teams to pay for his decline phase. You need to do some basic studying if you have yet to realize that paying book value and worse is not a winning strategy. It's in fact the most expensive way of putting together a team, which is precisely what the teams who had Abreu, post Philadelphia, were doing in acquiring him.

I'll repeat myself:

You have an incredibly low threshold for confusion:

Abreu w the Phillies: 47.0 WAR Salary: 64 million
Abreu after the Phillies: 11.8 WAR Salary : 51 million

See, that's Abreu's career. His career, while he was with the Phillies and after. The Phillies timed his departure brilliantly. Given how difficult it is to time these things, getting rid of a player on a HOF-like career path and how bad that can make you look, during his age 32 season, when even statheads have trouble grasping that's not typically a player's decline phase, I'm happy to stand by my characterization.

The fact that the Angels overpaid him has nothing to do with the Phillies. All that matters is what he did while he was under the contract he was on when the Phillies traded him. The Yankees paid $35.4m for 7.3 WAR(~$4.8M/WAR), not great, but not terrible. Certainly worth more than what the Phillies got in return, which was nothing. Even if you want to argue that the Phillies traded him at the right time, they still got NOTHING in return. So yes, you have a very low standard for brilliance or you have no clue what you are talking about.

You've chosen to be an argumentative, nitpicking idiot for reasons the rest of us can't fathom, but once again I was talking about Abreu's career, the entirety of his career, and you want to prattle "All that matters is what he did while he was under the contract he was on when the Phillies traded him", because apparently you like picking fights with people on the internet by pretending they wrote things they didn't.

It's pitiful, frankly.